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High Sec Hauling/Mining Kills - TY CCP for No Protection

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Author
Xuixien
Solar Winds Trade Conglomerate
#461 - 2014-08-29 20:15:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
And standard haulers generally can't survived 10-15 T1 catalysts, no matter how much you tank them.
Surviving 10–15 catalysts in a hauler isn't particularly hard, and using 10–15 catalysts means you operate at a loss if the target is carrying 30M worth of goods.


This Lucas guy. He's kinda special.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#462 - 2014-08-29 20:17:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I am saying there are some but not enough options to fit tank. It is so easy and cost to little to gank freighters atm that people are doing it on empty freighters for the lulz.
It has never been more difficult. It has never been as rare. Costs have only ever gone up. So where on earth do you get the idea that it should be even more difficult and costly? If it's so easy and cheap, why aren't everyone doing it? Why are so few killed? Why is it so ridiculously safe to fly a freighter?

Quote:
Ganking should always be possible but it should come at a greater price and with greater consequences
Why?

Quote:
not with the trivial shat we have now where alts are trained and disposed of like a revolving door.
Do you have any proof whatsoever to suggest that anything even remotely like that is actually happening?

Where is your proof? This is typical tippia BS same process same methods. With the changes to the ships gankers can field more dps for less cost. Gee yes things are more expensive then 5 -10 years ago but the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier.

Yes more people are ganking not only for profit but for the lulz only because it is so cheap and because Blue-sec has very little going on


Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank.

I understand the tears from the crybaby gankers. You dont want to loose your sport of clubbing baby seals on the beach.

Just like the tears from the barge changes this to shall pass. People will adapt or HTFU.

Gankers have had to easy for to long it is time for a change.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#463 - 2014-08-29 20:17:12 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
For starters I'd make killrights relevant. And to be honest, that might even be enough. Make them stay for either the 30 days or until the a proportion of the amount has been lost to them as what they caused, and they would no longer be able to be removed by alts in rookie ships.


So if you take part in a titan kill in lowsec you'll have open kill rights on you until you yourself lose a titan's worth of ships

Fantastic idea there

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Paul Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#464 - 2014-08-29 20:17:33 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Nothing's changed for 11 years.


That's not true. There have been several changes.

Some made ganking harder:

1.) The change to deny insurance payout to people who get CONCORDOKKEN had a big impact. Gankers went from paying for 30% of a hull to paying for 100%, which has been an extra 30-50m in cost to the gankers depending on where the hull price has fluctuated.
2.) The recent change giving freighters low slots lets you get far more EHP than was possible previously. This both lets you move more valuable cargos safely, but it also means that the gankers need to get a ship scan of freighters as well as a cargo scan.
3.) Kill rights can now be made available/sold. It used to be that if you ganked a hauling/industrial character then the kill right they got was almost meaningless. Now, when you get a kill right on you it actually does matter.

Others have made ganking easier:

4.) The addition of the Tier 3 battlecruisers, especially the high alpha of the Tornadoes, reduced the cost of ganking with fewer larger ships until the insurance change came to balance that out.
5.) The ability to buy back security status with tags made it possible for profitable ganking to be sustained by buying tags instead of needing to spend a lot of time ratting back up above -5. This makes the loss of security status less of a penalty than it used to be.

Overall, the changes have balanced out to keep the risk/reward relationships in check.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#465 - 2014-08-29 20:19:30 UTC
When i like someone i dont try an change the things i dont like about them to suit my tastes, because simply put then they aint the same person i like to begin with an i wonder why they changed to somein i dont like

If you like eve why try an change it? if u dont like it why u even here?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Trade Conglomerate
#466 - 2014-08-29 20:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Gee yes things are more expensive then 5 -10 years ago but the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier.


Gank:profit ratios depends entirely on other players. It's your choice if you want to be a profitable target or not.

There is no reason to cry cry cry when the power is in your hands.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Yes more people are ganking not only for profit but for the lulz only because it is so cheap and because Blue-sec has very little going on



  1. How cheap is ganking? Tell me, give me some hard numbers.
  2. What does "Blue-Sec" (I'm assuming you mean NullSec) have to do with it?


E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank.


CCP just recently allowed freighters to fit tank. An unprecedented move, and you're crying for "the chance to fit better tank"? Jesus! The entitlement in you people is endless.

BTW it doesn't matter how much chance you have to fit tank if you're not going to use it, so what are you crying about?

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I understand the tears from the crybaby gankers.


The only one crying here is you.

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Just like the tears from the barge changes this to shall pass.


What tears? I did some of my best ganking after the update.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Angeal MacNova
LankTech
#467 - 2014-08-29 20:21:43 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Straight

Well, that wasn't surprising.

Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.


Suicide ganking has always been possible. Nothing's changed for 11 years.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVE hasn't changed in this respect.



In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions. After all, CCP is not there for hand holding and players have everything they need at their disposal.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#468 - 2014-08-29 20:22:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Tam Althor wrote:
Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?


I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.


Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then. Roll

But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away.


people who whine about people having multiple accounts are priceless.

you essentially want a random person to get punished for the actions of some one who has nothing to do with the entire situation, just because they have more than one account. it's nonsensical.


I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:

- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours
- bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.

Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. Bear
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2014-08-29 20:23:49 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Straight

Well, that wasn't surprising.

Thanks for confirming Eve Online has turned into Grief Online.


Suicide ganking has always been possible. Nothing's changed for 11 years.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but EVE hasn't changed in this respect.



In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions. After all, CCP is not there for hand holding and players have everything they need at their disposal.



Read the rules, next time try no be a smart arse you just make yourself out to be a stupid count
Dave Stark
#470 - 2014-08-29 20:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Tam Althor wrote:
Remember CCP Falcon, the level of protection that concord provides players is the same level of job protection you have when the high sec players decide to quit. Will you survive the next 20% layoff when it happens?


I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.


Risk versus reward would mean a lot more if PvPrs risked their non-PvP mains each now and then. Roll

But then, as an EVE player it is your sole fault if you don't play their way and won't go away.


people who whine about people having multiple accounts are priceless.

you essentially want a random person to get punished for the actions of some one who has nothing to do with the entire situation, just because they have more than one account. it's nonsensical.


I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:

- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours
- bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.

Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. Bear


so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one else roadkilled one of yours?
you are aware how stupid that is, right?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#471 - 2014-08-29 20:36:23 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:

- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours
- bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.

Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. Bear


so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours?
you are aware how stupid that is, right?


He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps.
Dave Stark
#472 - 2014-08-29 20:42:36 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:

- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours
- bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.

Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. Bear


so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours?
you are aware how stupid that is, right?


He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps.


no, he's a random person that has nothing to do with your sheep.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#473 - 2014-08-29 20:43:32 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
I you roll over my sheep with your armored truck, I can do two things about it:

- buy myself an armored truck and blow yours
- bring some pesticide and poison all sheeps in your brother's farm as he was who paid for your truck.

Your sheeps for my sheeps, dude. Bear


so you'd go and murder some random person's sheep because some one roadkilled one of yours?
you are aware how stupid that is, right?


He's not a random person. He's the guy who pays your bills. Your sheeps for my sheeps.

that's not how responsibility works

also what is this line of conversation even about this is the only post in this thread i've cared to read besides falcon's which are beautiful posts made by a beautiful man
Darkblad
Doomheim
#474 - 2014-08-29 20:43:43 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
you are aware how stupid that is, right?
Mental capabilities are rarely used by those that dislike the fact that (even non consensual) pvp is part of eve in discussions like this. What?

NPEISDRIP

Xer Jin
XER'S LONE SOLOS CLUB
#475 - 2014-08-29 20:52:17 UTC
WOW look at all the loser crying in this thread about getting ganked i'm almost tempted to join a corp that specialize in ganking just to get in on these tears. anyone know a good corp to join.
Luukje
The Vendetta Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#476 - 2014-08-29 21:01:11 UTC
so many tears...

the whole cry for more tank fitting options on haulers is just silly; as the haulers that are being ganked are the ones refusing to fit tank. the problem isnt not having the ability to tank ur badger to 80k ehp, its you choosing to not fit that tank. derp
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#477 - 2014-08-29 21:06:45 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Where is your proof?
In every patchnote from Trinity and onwards. And in the economy presentation from every Fanfest from 2008 and onwards. And on the killboards. And in dev statements. Where's yours?

Quote:
the scale of ganking to profit and ease of ganking has done nothing but gone up and gotten easier.
Prove it.

Quote:
Give haulers a chance to fit better tank because shooting back wont effect the gank.
This has already happened. Why is more needed? And how come shooting back doesn't work all of a sudden?

Angeal MacNova wrote:
In that case I think I'll create a gank alt and pop newbs running the tutorial missions.
Yes, please do this. Can I have your stuff?
Steppa Musana
Doomheim
#478 - 2014-08-29 21:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Steppa Musana
Shooting back really is stupid advice, no offense to anyone who's recommended it.

Badgers can fit 70,000 EHP.
Impels 800,000 EHP.
RF/Push do freighter runs for dirt cheap

The only people that have a right to complain at that point are the big courier groups like RF and Push. Oh wait, they aren't complaining, because they web-warp their freighter each time a bump ship is on grid.

Let's assume you really want to fly your own freighter though. And let's assume web-warping didn't exist. Grab a Providence and fit it with deadspace armor resists. Then grab a couple buddies, or alts. Put them in a Nestor. Congrats! One of those Nestors reps enough back to counter six Talos gank ships. You have two of them. Yes, bring two minimal. If they try ganking the Nestor you need to rep it back. This is also why I said shooting back is stupid advice; that shooter is always better off having brought a Nestor to add more numbers to the logi totals.

Threads like this should be stickied, just so new players can see how absurd the notion of nerfing ganking is and how much of an advantage the gankee has.

Hey guys.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#479 - 2014-08-29 21:26:57 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Give haulers a chance to fit better tank


Screw just fitting a better tank. Go for broke. I want my Mammoth to be able to align and warp under two seconds, have an unscannable 200,000 m3 fleet hanger, +9 warp core strength, a 90% native omni resistance profile, enough base hit points to tank a fleet of smartbombing battleships, and a giant balloon in the shape of a middle finger that deploys if someone even yellowboxes it.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Trade Conglomerate
#480 - 2014-08-29 21:27:06 UTC
Steppa Musana wrote:
Shooting back really is stupid advice, no offense to anyone who's recommended it.

Badgers can fit 70,000 EHP.
Impels 800,000 EHP.
RF/Push do freighter runs for dirt cheap

The only people that have a right to complain at that point are the big courier groups like RF and Push. Oh wait, they aren't complaining, because they web-warp their freighter each time a bump ship is on grid.

Let's assume you really want to fly your own freighter though. And let's assume web-warping didn't exist. Grab a Providence and fit it with deadspace armor resists. Then grab a couple buddies, or alts. Put them in a Nestor. Congrats! One of those Nestors reps enough back to counter six Talos gank ships. You have two of them.

Threads like this should be stickied, just so new players can see how absurd the notion of nerfing ganking is and how much of an advantage the gankee has.


Did you know that the humble Sigil can get 1200 passive regen on shields?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist