These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

War Decs as a griefing tool

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#581 - 2014-09-02 03:57:58 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
just not with forcing people to operate without CONCORD protection.


Good thing I didn't say that, then.


Quote:
I just literally see no benefit to highsec corps - as the OP points out they get wardecced into hopeless wars, and as can be seen from youtube etc., lots of awoxers love to join these corps just to kill people and steal things.


This is because NPC corps do not have the appropriate amount of drawbacks. It should be punitive to live in one, in exchange for the increased safety by being immune to wars. Since your risk is lowered, your reward should be commensurately lowered.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#582 - 2014-09-02 11:13:41 UTC
Npc corps blah blah blah. CCP kicks players from npc corps -> one man corps blah blah blah.
You guys never stop whining.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#583 - 2014-09-02 11:23:25 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
Npc corps blah blah blah. CCP kicks players from npc corps -> one man corps blah blah blah.
You guys never stop whining.


Your name has been ironic for a while.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#584 - 2014-09-02 12:19:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
Npc corps blah blah blah. CCP kicks players from npc corps -> one man corps blah blah blah.
You guys never stop whining.


Your name has been ironic for a while.



That doesn't change the fact that you are probably an adult whining 24/7 on the furums of a video game.
There are players that prefer to stay in npc corps, and npc corps exist because ccp wants. It is not so hard to understand, even for you.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#585 - 2014-09-02 12:23:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
If it's boring then don't do it? You always have the option of coming together and fighting the WarDeccers.
I don't get involved in wardeccers. My high sec guys operate from NPC corps and my mains operate from null. Much like many people operating from NPC corps, I don't consider it entertaining to lose an unarmed hauler to 20 12 year olds who then proceed to pat themselves on the back chanting "GF" in local. And therein lies the issue. You can't expect NPC players to choose to put themselves out for nothing.


Hence why a 20% tax on NPC corps would be good. They have a reason to want to be in a player corp that offers them less tax.



New character.. start in NPC starter corp. 10% tax.. after 6 months forced to other NPC corp. Tax 50%. YES 50%.

New corps start with a base tax of 20% that goes to concord..... tax is reduced by 1% per member in the corp.


That would push the creation of real corps in game.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#586 - 2014-09-02 12:30:20 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
If it's boring then don't do it? You always have the option of coming together and fighting the WarDeccers.
I don't get involved in wardeccers. My high sec guys operate from NPC corps and my mains operate from null. Much like many people operating from NPC corps, I don't consider it entertaining to lose an unarmed hauler to 20 12 year olds who then proceed to pat themselves on the back chanting "GF" in local. And therein lies the issue. You can't expect NPC players to choose to put themselves out for nothing.


Hence why a 20% tax on NPC corps would be good. They have a reason to want to be in a player corp that offers them less tax.



New character.. start in NPC starter corp. 10% tax.. after 6 months forced to other NPC corp. Tax 50%. YES 50%.

New corps start with a base tax of 20% that goes to concord..... tax is reduced by 1% per member in the corp.


That would push the creation of real corps in game.


I don't think real corps need 'pushing'. in fact that kind of gerrymandering goes against the freedom that makes EVE what it is.

I don't care that some people stay in NPC corps. I don't care if they make player corps even though that kind of interaction can be better for the overall game. To each his own.

What I don't like is how membership in an npc corp insulates players from a corp game mechanic (war). EVE is supposed to be a player driven game yet here is something that is 'anti' player driven.

Still, NPC corps are probably a 'necessary evil' like high sec itself ie very many players wouldn't have the stomach for the game if it didn't exist (as sad a thought that is, what kind of world do we live in where video game players are intimidated by video games??). But even if that is true, 'necessary evils' should be balanced.

If it were up to me there would be restrictions on what you could fly as a member of all npc corps except FW militias: No freighters, no ships with a jump drive, no pirate ships of any kind, no tech2 mining ships etc. And haulers/miners/ whatever else would have to pay taxes the the same way NPC corp mission runners/explorers have to.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#587 - 2014-09-02 12:44:08 UTC
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#588 - 2014-09-02 12:53:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
If it were up to me there would be restrictions on what you could fly as a member of all npc corps except FW militias: No freighters, no ships with a jump drive, no pirate ships of any kind, no tech2 mining ships etc. And haulers/miners/ whatever else would have to pay taxes the the same way NPC corp mission runners/explorers have to.
So if it were up to you, they'd put more mechanical restrictions in, rather than less?

It has to be asked, would you suggest any changed from the other side or would all negatives fall on the NPC corps? So wardecs, would they remain a cheap method of paying concord not to intervene when you go out ganking?

This is the problem. People are happy to whine on about NPC corp members, yet they are unwilling to make concessions themselves. It's always as if people aren't allowed to suggest any changes without being attacked and told to quit, unless of course that change nukes PvE, in which case it's fine. Why not just scrap PvE altogether and convert EVE into an arena game, then nobody can carebear.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Valkin Mordirc
#589 - 2014-09-02 12:54:35 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Just like CCP has totally made Sovereignty the most perfect system ever? Or the Power Projection issue everyone is complaining about, CCP wants that? 
#DeleteTheWeak
Good Posting
Doomheim
#590 - 2014-09-02 13:05:03 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Just like CCP has totally made Sovereignty the most perfect system ever? Or the Power Projection issue everyone is complaining about, CCP wants that?


I agree that null sov is terrible and yes, what we have is what ccp wants. Npc corps and sov mechachics are something new?
If they don't change them, it's probably because they don't want, for whatever reason the may have.
Valkin Mordirc
#591 - 2014-09-02 13:12:06 UTC
You sir, are a dumbass.
#DeleteTheWeak
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#592 - 2014-09-02 13:14:53 UTC
Hm. You know, the idea of having the tax rate of player corps scale down as the corp gets larger doesn't really bother me to be honest, especially when coupled with the notion of npc corps having their tax rate increased significantly. It gives a positive reinforcement for cooperative behavior while giving a negative reinforcement to guard against antisocial and risk averse behavior. As far as wardecs go, I do still believe that they should be able to be levied on an individiual vs individual basis as well as corp and alliance/wide.... but not vice versa. One against one, one against many, one against all is valid from an issuers stance in my book.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#593 - 2014-09-02 13:25:49 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Wrong.

CCP has stated a few times that they don't like NPC corps, but have little idea how to deal with them. There's also the issue of small "NPC corp communities" that have emerged. However, NPC corps are bad for the game.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#594 - 2014-09-02 13:26:17 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.
\
not trying to "do" anything. Just pointing out that NPC corps are a badly implemented but maybe necessary evil.

Even internally they aren't right, because those taxes really only apply to people who get bounties (mission runners, explorers), not to people who get their isk in other ways (miners, haulers, to some extent traders etc). I don't think they should be done away with, but their presence is antithetical to a player driven game.

I don't think anything will ever be done to change them though, but I don't care for them because they are a method to avoid some rather core game mechanics (war). It's like being half-in the game, and I think you should be in or out.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#595 - 2014-09-02 13:32:01 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
You sir, are a dumbass.


Oh look, the high sec scrub is trying to offend me. You can't wardec npc corps, nor force people to leave them. You are the only one pissed off here, not me. Deal with it.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#596 - 2014-09-02 13:35:10 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Wrong.

CCP has stated a few times that they don't like NPC corps, but have little idea how to deal with them. There's also the issue of small "NPC corp communities" that have emerged. However, NPC corps are bad for the game.


Are you saying that ccp cant do that job? "We don't like it but we don't know how to fix it", right? Don't be delusional, they don't touch npc corps for a reason.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#597 - 2014-09-02 13:35:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
If it were up to me there would be restrictions on what you could fly as a member of all npc corps except FW militias: No freighters, no ships with a jump drive, no pirate ships of any kind, no tech2 mining ships etc. And haulers/miners/ whatever else would have to pay taxes the the same way NPC corp mission runners/explorers have to.
So if it were up to you, they'd put more mechanical restrictions in, rather than less?

It has to be asked, would you suggest any changed from the other side or would all negatives fall on the NPC corps? So wardecs, would they remain a cheap method of paying concord not to intervene when you go out ganking?

This is the problem. People are happy to whine on about NPC corp members, yet they are unwilling to make concessions themselves. It's always as if people aren't allowed to suggest any changes without being attacked and told to quit, unless of course that change nukes PvE, in which case it's fine. Why not just scrap PvE altogether and convert EVE into an arena game, then nobody can carebear.

That post is stupid, I'm a pve player, I'm not looking to shoot anyone.

You don't 'make concessions' to people who already have an advantage (war dec immunity). Now, I've never war decced anyone and don't see why I would (it's much easier to just keep on moving, resources are abundant in New Eden), but the idea that some players can do the same things as some other players without having to deal with the same consequences goes against what EVE is supposed to be (a dangerous, cut-throat, player driven game).

As a small corp owner I have to deal with the threat of war decs forcing me to defend myself or move, which is fine as this is a video game. But another guy can just stay in an NPC corp, pay a pittance if anything at all, fly the same ships we can and the ONLY thing you can do to them (if it comes to a fight) is suicide against them.

I won't lose any sleep over it of course because like I said, there is pve all over the place to go do, it's CCPs game and if they want NPC corps like they are, that's their right.

But I think hiding in a video game is cheesy as hell and if it were up to me , npc corp membership would come at a higher price if it was allowed at all. Faction Warfare NPC corps are the only ones that make any sense.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#598 - 2014-09-02 13:37:10 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Wrong.

CCP has stated a few times that they don't like NPC corps, but have little idea how to deal with them. There's also the issue of small "NPC corp communities" that have emerged. However, NPC corps are bad for the game.


Are you saying that ccp cant do that job? "We don't like it but we don't know how to fix it", right? Don't be delusional, they don't touch npc corps for a reason.


Yes, he gave you the reason ie they don't like them but understand that messing with them might have bad consequences. Thus my term necessary EVIL lol.

it's the same reason why SOV changes always take so long, they aren't happy with them but are smart enough to know that a knee jerk reaction could make things worse. Better to do it right the 1st time.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#599 - 2014-09-02 13:37:48 UTC
Good Posting wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Good Posting wrote:
If npc corps were bad for business, ccp would remove them, or force players to leave them. But they are still here, inmune to wardecs and with lower taxes than many null corps. If you don't like it that's fine but there isn't much you can do.


Wrong.

CCP has stated a few times that they don't like NPC corps, but have little idea how to deal with them. There's also the issue of small "NPC corp communities" that have emerged. However, NPC corps are bad for the game.


Are you saying that ccp cant do that job? "We don't like it but we don't know how to fix it", right? Don't be delusional, they don't touch npc corps for a reason.


I'm saying that as of now, CCP has other priorities and it's a subject that will take a lot of iteration. You would know this if you ever watched any of the presentation panels from Fanfest where CCP says as much.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Good Posting
Doomheim
#600 - 2014-09-02 13:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Good Posting
Xuixien wrote:


I'm saying that as of now, CCP has other priorities and it's a subject that will take a lot of iteration. You would know this if you ever watched any of the presentation panels from Fanfest where CCP says as much.


Soon (tm), in other words. And you believe them.

If they ever change anything, that would be minimal. CCP wants people inmune to wardecs, that is what i'm saying. And i agree with them.

High sec wardeccers can whine all they want, this will never change.


Oh and hai there Jenn, how are you? Long time no see you!
xox