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War Decs as a griefing tool

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#181 - 2014-08-29 08:39:16 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
See, the "If you wardec them they'll just stay in NPC corps forever" argument doesn't exactly show what people think it does.

It does not, for example, show a necessity to declaw wardecs.

It does, however, show that NPC corps have too many positives, and not enough negatives when compared to a player corp. A player that has been in an NPC corp for more than a month should have the tax rate doubled. They should not be permanent homes, they should be temporary to assist in intra corp movement, or temporary vestiges for new players from which to find a player corp.

EVE will never keep new players by pandering to this antisocial solo player bullshit. EVE will keep new players by playing to it's strength, and it's strength is social interaction and participation in the game society at large.


I have argued a few times that NPC corps should be hit with a nerf bat of epic size. For me a NPC corp should be a temporary place whilst searching a for new corp, selling your character, if you taking a break, basically where it shouldn't matter if the tax rate is like 50%.

However I doubt CCP will ever have the balls to touch NPC Corps.


Us this because your war targets jump to npc corps? If players are jumping to npc corps it usually means they cant compete, so instead of chasing them around maybe you should look to lowsec or nullsec uf you wish to pvp, you could argue that highsec should only be a place to learn and you have to leave after a certain amount of time to a 0.4 or below system so that players can learn basics.

The way it sounds is your not happy that you cant always get to shoot your target so you want it nerfed, move to lowsec or null and your problem is sorted



If you cant actually read or understand what was written, its probably best not to comment.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Prince Kobol
#182 - 2014-08-29 08:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lan Wang wrote:


Us this because your war targets jump to npc corps? If players are jumping to npc corps it usually means they cant compete, so instead of chasing them around maybe you should look to lowsec or nullsec uf you wish to pvp, you could argue that highsec should only be a place to learn and you have to leave after a certain amount of time to a 0.4 or below system so that players can learn basics.

The way it sounds is your not happy that you cant always get to shoot your target so you want it nerfed, move to lowsec or null and your problem is sorted



Argh !!!!

Its people like you who are systemically killing this game. Players should not be jumping to NPC Corps, they should be looking for other options like moving outside of high sec.

Maybe then they will realise that low sec is not some magically evil place where you will go boom as soon as you enter like they have been told by their High Care Bear CEO.

Players are being told, drop corp and stay in a NPC corp, you can do everything there that you can do now but you will have to pay a tiny bit more tax but you cant be war decced.

That player will lose any incentive to move to another player corp, to move out of high sec.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#183 - 2014-08-29 08:48:03 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

I completely understand it not towards me. I totally agree that it is **** and for me personally I believe NPC corps is one of the major contributing factors why Eve is stagnating.

NPC Corps do absolutely nothing positive for Eve.

For me, it was War Decs that got me out of High Sec. I decided to keep my head down in low sec during one and realised that they would not follow me and in the following days realised that low sec wasn't that bad.

My personal advice to anybody who is ever told to drop corp and join a NPC corp is to exactly that, drop corp but DO NOT go back. Find another corp, preferable one outside of High Sec as that is where Eve really shines.


I accept your point of view and recognise its validity

I realise I was also projecting some of the anger I feel towards lazy, arrogant and theiving CEOs onto you, and this was not warranted.

Sorry about that.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#184 - 2014-08-29 08:50:08 UTC
Now let's all take out that anger on whomever happens to be in the nearest asteroid belt.

That's the ganker equivalent of a group hug.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#185 - 2014-08-29 08:52:40 UTC
Solution: Mine in a Blops with a Cyno on call

Its expensive, takes a year to train up from nothing and your income will be miniscule

But y'know risk vs rewardlol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#186 - 2014-08-29 09:12:49 UTC
Sorry ive been a bit silly and missed a page lol

Its not really people like me killing the game im pretty much stilll a rookie and learning but i was out of highsec at 2mil to galmil then to nullsec (which is a much better life than highsec) at 4mil sp i still have friends i joined with who blanket themselves in the safety of highsec but i think the peoole who are killing the game are the ones who are not giving rookies a chance to learn the game be it a 2 week player who bought a plex and moved it in a silly ship and got ganked by a code operative, allbeit if that happens to most rookies it enough to just logoff and say the game is stupid and never play again, you could argue that its not the game for the rookie when that happens but rookies dont know any better and need to learn

Again sorry for misreading some of this

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#187 - 2014-08-29 09:17:16 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Sorry ive been a bit silly and missed a page lol

Its not really people like me killing the game im pretty much stilll a rookie and learning but i was out of highsec at 2mil to galmil then to nullsec (which is a much better life than highsec) at 4mil sp i still have friends i joined with who blanket themselves in the safety of highsec but i think the peoole who are killing the game are the ones who are not giving rookies a chance to learn the game be it a 2 week player who bought a plex and moved it in a silly ship and got ganked by a code operative, allbeit if that happens to most rookies it enough to just logoff and say the game is stupid and never play again, you could argue that its not the game for the rookie when that happens but rookies dont know any better and need to learn

Again sorry for misreading some of this



Its ok, Im glad to read this reply.

And I entirely agree, the game is hard for rookies to learn. If you look over some of what Ive said, I place the blame squarely on CEOs who refuse to help, and see new players as cash cows and minions.

Of course, the rookie also has to be willingly to learn and willing to take onboard the advice they are given.

There's another lesser problem too of new players who (for all the best intent and reason) shrug off losses as part of the game (which it is and they should) but not realise that losing four retrievers in two days because they were mining during war is not acceptable. Again though, if its not explained to them why, then the situation will simply repeat as they are farmed by those who dec for kills.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#188 - 2014-08-29 10:08:33 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Solution: Mine in a Blops with a Cyno on call

Its expensive, takes a year to train up from nothing and your income will be miniscule

But y'know risk vs rewardlol

Incidentally, the Prospect can be blops-dropped into the ass end of space where no-one will ever come look for it…
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#189 - 2014-08-29 10:09:26 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You wardecced me? When exactly was that? I've been living in null for quite some time, so if by that you mean you wardecced SMA, then lol, wardecs don't exist in null buddy. I imagine though that this is just the usual "we're so 'ard" response from you lot. There there, you are well good and beating up all them noobs, don't you worry your little cotton socks sunshine.

[


Yet you guys come and go into high sec all the time and we get aLOT of nice kills. Granted taht war was reasonably long ago and you might not have been in there.


Even if you or other guy neves comes to high sec, there is always some that come, and they take their safety as granted ... and then die. Probably 30% of our kills are 0.0 and wormhoel space dudes... that forget that they do come to high sec all the time.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#190 - 2014-08-29 10:28:28 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
It doesn't take a genius to either work out how to avoid being killed in a war (there are numerous ways) or simply to ask for help and then use the advice given.
And when they do this, they get whined at for being risk averse carebears and told that highsec is too safe.

The problem is that wardecs are crap, they are terrible at generating fights like they are supposed to. They are terrible because the people not using them avoid them and the people that use them will only do so against people who stand no chance (the aforementioned group who avoid them). You can ***** and moan about how people don't learn how to play the game well enough, But that isn't a solution.

The end result though is always the same. People who don't like the wardecs and get decced to much quit. You guys all cheer the loss of another carebear, and the game gets smaller. The inevitable result is that attrition will kill the game, while you refuse to compromise. And it's dumb. Who cares if some random wants to sit in a corner all day doing like a mission an hour and just being left alone? They don't affect anyone and they provide income for CCP which can be used to make improvements. But no, they must leave because they don't want to play the way you want to.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#191 - 2014-08-29 10:36:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It does, however, show that NPC corps have too many positives, and not enough negatives when compared to a player corp. A player that has been in an NPC corp for more than a month should have the tax rate doubled. They should not be permanent homes, they should be temporary to assist in intra corp movement, or temporary vestiges for new players from which to find a player corp.
Back to the "nuke NPC corps" argument. Like making it even worse for people who don;t want to fight is going to suddenly make the game better. Like all of those people will suddenly say "You know what, I actually like getting blown up! Bring it on!". It's not the case. All it would do is push more people out.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
EVE will never keep new players by pandering to this antisocial solo player bullshit. EVE will keep new players by playing to it's strength, and it's strength is social interaction and participation in the game society at large.
Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now, and yet right now it plays to it's strength. The thing is, when someone starts a game, finds a few things they enjoy, and does them, then some random 10 years old player flies over blows them up steals all their stuff and flies off giggling, many of those new player leave. Antisocial solo players don't make the game any worse. They don't make it better either but they don't make it worse. Getting rid of them is dumping a massive market segment for absolutely zero gain.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Solecist Project
#192 - 2014-08-29 10:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
I agree.

Instead we should have what CCP Tuxford once said!

When you join New Eden you are at war with everyone ...
... and have to declare PEACE!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2014-08-29 10:44:47 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now,


No it doesn't. New players are positivly spoiled when compared to what I went through.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#194 - 2014-08-29 10:45:49 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Players should not be jumping to NPC Corps, they should be looking for other options like moving outside of high sec.
Why?
It's a game, it's entertainment. If they enjoy highsec, then that's where they are free to stay. Staying in an NPC corp or solo corps for tax shelters is currently the best way to do that, since the vast majority of wardeccers are gankers that don't want to be concorded.

Prince Kobol wrote:
Players are being told, drop corp and stay in a NPC corp, you can do everything there that you can do now but you will have to pay a tiny bit more tax but you cant be war decced.

That player will lose any incentive to move to another player corp, to move out of high sec.
Good. They don't need the incentive, since they don't want to play the way you play. Not to mention that every time a player moves permanently to an NPC corp, the wardeccers who systematically hunt down anyone that stands no chance of fighting back have 1 less target. One day perhaps wardeccers will have to actually fight people that fight back, and shazzam, content is born. It would be nice if they chose to do that instead, but failing that, I'm happy to continue telling people to avoid them.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Elinarien
Doomheim
#195 - 2014-08-29 10:48:22 UTC
The answer to the NPC Corp issue is very simple - make it so that only faction warfare NPC corps allow players to join - that way a player can sit in high sec and mine / mission but with the risk that an opposing faction could always appear and kill him quite legitimately. That would allow for the removal of Concord and it's replacement with faction-specific police.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#196 - 2014-08-29 10:48:55 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Getting rid of them is dumping a massive market segment for absolutely zero gain.


Which is EXACTLY what the "ban ganking and wardecs!" crowd comes on here, every day, to suggest to CCP. Screwing over your established playerbase to chase theoretical casuals.

Hooray for cognitive dissonance!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#197 - 2014-08-29 10:49:18 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yet you guys come and go into high sec all the time and we get aLOT of nice kills. Granted taht war was reasonably long ago and you might not have been in there.


Even if you or other guy neves comes to high sec, there is always some that come, and they take their safety as granted ... and then die. Probably 30% of our kills are 0.0 and wormhole space dudes... that forget that they do come to high sec all the time.
Oh I see.
Yeah, the only time you'll see my SMA guys in high sec is when I'm doing Burn Jita. NPC alts do everything else I need to, because NPC corps are brilliant. Everyone should just move to NPC corps.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#198 - 2014-08-29 10:52:19 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
It doesn't take a genius to either work out how to avoid being killed in a war (there are numerous ways) or simply to ask for help and then use the advice given.
And when they do this, they get whined at for being risk averse carebears and told that highsec is too safe.



No they dont

Thats as ridiculous as the "Gankers are always up in arms when non-combat ships get a buff" argument

Its complete rubbish and you know it.

Unless, of course, thats what you are telling your new starts, then for shame Lucas.

For shame.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#199 - 2014-08-29 10:55:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol? Are you serious? EVE has a serious new player problem right now,


No it doesn't. New players are positivly spoiled when compared to what I went through.
Oh OK, I guess CCP were wrong about that at fanfest then. My bad.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Valkin Mordirc
#200 - 2014-08-29 10:56:34 UTC
I was wondering when Lucas would find this thread. Took longer than I expected.
#DeleteTheWeak