EVE General Discussion

No, but you're reading it backwards: I crossed it out because it isn't true. PLEX isn't even remotely a factor in how much you can train (well… at least not on the PLEX seller side — the buyer obviously gets 30 days of play time which helps in letting them hone their skills). If you believe otherwise, you are not actually training, but pointlessly wasting money and not learning from your repeated mistakes.

You want to laugh at yourself? That's pretty odd…
“Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night” — those are your exact words. Person A spent time on the advantage s/he has. That's all the advantage is: experience acquired by spending the required time.

No amount of PLEX spent will give you more time or more experience. The “win” you are looking for is the one you can never buy. There is another one, though, but you can't buy that one either so it makes no difference.

No, I did not. It was just some strawman you injected. You then complained about it being a bad strawman, just to make your injection that much more nonsensical.

No, you crossing it out is simply you dismissing it. It still remains true. I put 3 hours as the time frame. The buyer bought a plex. They can either use it to extend their game time by 30 days or sell it on the market for isk. They can't do both. What I was talking about (that you simply ignored since you couldn't refute it) was selling the plex on the market to get isk now vs spending hours playing the game to get the same amount of isk. I was also talking about the player actually practicing PvP and wasn't talking about character skill training.



"Person A spent time on the advantage s/he has" LOL that was a good laugh. Certainly you can't be referring the the "advantage" I've been talking about all along? What advantage are you talking about? After all, in order for the purchase of plex to sell in game for isk to not be P2W, there can't be any advantage at all...

So you must agree then that person A has a time advantage only made possible by selling a plex on the eve market. No, I'm not talking about the 30 days game time a sub/plex will get you but rather the amount of time the player can spend practicing PvP without having to grind PvE for isk to fund their PvP (I can't believe I have to spell these things out for you).



Wrong and you even stated it above. A plex will allow a player to spend more of their game time practicing PvP vs the other player who has to spend some of their game time doing PvE for isk.

No, I did not. It was just some strawman you injected. You then complained about it being a bad strawman, just to make your injection that much more nonsensical.[/quote]


I said

"Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely)"

For which you replied

"That means there is no P2W by the way"

Well guess what? Since I was saying that it's possible take more time to get the same results, and you replied with "that means there is no P2W", then that is you agreeing that "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is not P2W.

…and time was never even mentioned. So when you inject the addendum “it just takes longer”, that is your strawman, and when you call it a bad strawman, it is only your own fallacious argument you're dismissing.

Again: anything you can pay for you can be had without paying for it. In fact, in order for you to be able to pay for it, it must already be available without paying for it because that's how the stuff in question comes into existence. At no point are you able to skip any mechanics or circumvent the normal order of production.

Just one problem: you weren't. Again, time was never even mentioned. It was something you (incorrectly) injected afterwards when all you could come up with in way of argumentation was a fallacy.

None that come simply from paying for it, no.

I'll give a simple example.

You buy PLEX with RL cash, sell it to me, you get my ISK in game.

With this ISK you buy a bad ass ship and fit it out with faction gear.

I blow up your ship, loot your stuff & sell them for ISK.

You just bought ME some play time, and you paid to LOSE.

With the ISK I got from looting your stuff, I will buy another PLEX off some other player who bought it with RL cash.

I use that PLEX to extend my game time, go blow more stuff up, or market pvp, produce or whatever and make even more ISK.

Someone is keep using cash to buy PLEX to sell to get ISK, I'm keep having fun doing what I want in the game while making ISK that saves me RL cash!

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I'm not looking down on anyone who buys PLEX with RL cash. It's a personal choice and quick ISK injection gives you options - but that's the key part. ISK gives you options but it doesn't let you 'win' anything. It's what you do with your ISK that will decide whether you have an advantage or not.

Also, I think one of the key issue here is that you are keep mentioning 'grinding for isk'. There are many FUN ways to make ISK in this game. And making ISK doesn't have to equal PvE. Actually, the ISK you can make from other players is vastly more than ISK you can make from PvE (or player vs. NPC if you like).

Even if you are mining, you are making money from other players. Because it's the other players who buy your ores/minerals and give you ISK. If you are a trader or producer, you are making ISK from other players too. Because it's the other players who buy your stuff that net you profit.

Once you see that the ISK making opportunity from other players is hugely more efficient than ISK you can get from shooting NPC, you realise that it's actually PvP that nets you most ISK in this game.

Just remember that PvP doesn't always mean shooting lasers at another player's space ship. Although that can be profitable too if you know what you are doing. Market trading is PvP and producing is PvP too.

So basically, you can be constantly doing some form of PvP in this game and make ISK.

The whole idea that you have to 'grind', by which normally people think shooting red crosses in space, to make ISK to fund PvP is a misconception.

I don't care how many skillpoints you have in game, it's knowledge that makes a winner and a loser in EVE Online.

Someone buying a character in their first week won't help them at all if they don't know what to do with it.

You're making a category error so big, that I am having trouble believing that you aren't just trolling.




And is going to get his ass handed to him by a player who has played through all 12.5 million of his own skillpoints, let alone against a veteran.

Then you are simply forgetting the simple fact of the matter: everything that can be had by way of PLEX must forcibly be available without the use of PLEX, or you wouldn't be able to buy it by taking the PLEX route either.

Point of order: you cannot convert PLEX to ISK. That is where your thinking breaks down. You can only trade PLEX against stuff that other players have produced. They've produced them without the use of said PLEX. If they hadn't, it wouldn't be available for you to buy.

A character from the character bazaar can be created without the use of PLEX and can be had without the use of PLEX. At no point in the game is PLEX ever needed to gain any given advantage.

This is what happens when people try to pay to win.

The issue is that you can circumvent multiplayer aspects by having a set of alts, because they are not a unique players, hence there is no multiplayer interaction.

OP - Just unsub EVE. CCP doesn't want you