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Why the push to force people to work together?

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Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-08-27 18:12:09 UTC
Haven't gotten a burner mission, haven't bothered to look at them....but decline ? HOLY CRAP BATMAN! Who would of thunk that ? Take a standing hit...big deal, CCP would never set it to never talk to you ever again like your former ex- Twisted
Kelmac
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#122 - 2014-08-27 18:49:23 UTC
What on earth is a burner mission?
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2014-08-27 18:58:26 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.


What part of MM did you miss? was it the Multi-player part?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#124 - 2014-08-27 19:00:47 UTC
Kelmac wrote:
What on earth is a burner mission?


It's what people get when they are in the Navy and their ship docks in Bangkok.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#125 - 2014-08-27 19:01:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kelmac wrote:
What on earth is a burner mission?


It's what people get when they are in the Navy and their ship docks in Bangkok.
There's a cream for that.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-08-27 21:20:41 UTC
Massively multiplayer, not massively singleplayer.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Crazey Monkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-08-27 21:31:17 UTC
Never stop Metal. Never stop.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#128 - 2014-08-27 21:33:20 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.



How are they MAKING you play with others? By introducing things that are easier with others, is that it? Burner misions? Missions you are not forced to do?

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2014-08-27 22:03:58 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:


The rewards are greater when you take more risk

More team-mates means more risk, you saavy?



That's a load of horse crap.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#130 - 2014-08-27 22:08:49 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
EVE is pay to win after all.


I understand these words individually, but in this order they make no sense




I'd say

PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.



They're the only ones I can think of though.


That's pretty much it.

Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely).

To circumvent 'earning' it, you can just open your wallet and buy plex or flat out sub multiple accounts. Being able to field multiple ships as just one player is a significant advantage in a PvP game.

If that isn't enough, while others save up isk through playing, some people can just buy even more plex and trade that for isk. With this isk, they can spend more time practicing PvP will less downtime to safe up the isk than someone who actually saves up the isk.

Not that I blame CCP to much. It's just business. If they suddenly removed plex and simultaneously banned isboxing as well as made it impossible to run multiple instances of EVE on a single computer, not only would some people flat out stop playing EVE but the drop in logged "players" (read: characters or accounts) and the drop in revenue would be bad for them.

It's also not as if just a select few can do this. Anybody can. It's still spending additional cash for a significant advantage in a PvP game.

It's just that it quickly becomes a slippery slope. At what point do they draw the line? Before it used to be that you had to stop training on one character to begin training on another on the same account. Now you can plex the training on multiple characters. Then there is the development of content specifically designed to encourage the funding of multiple accounts under the disguise of "encouraging players to play together". One can argue that the new missions do exactly that. You could say that the slope has begun.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#131 - 2014-08-27 22:10:02 UTC
So, since I've been called a lot of psychological terms as an attempted insult by people on this forum, I figure I might take it up myself.

The OP is exhibiting antisocial personality disorder, with a side of persecution complex.

Did I do it right?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#132 - 2014-08-28 00:52:48 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.
That's pretty much it.

Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely).
That means there is no P2W by the way. Paying doesn't offer any advantage over not paying, and if you're not getting any “win” for your “pay”, it can hardly count as P2W.

Anything you can pay for you can be had without paying for it. In fact, in order for you to be able to pay for it, it must already be available without paying for it because that's how the stuff in question comes into existence. At no point are you able to skip any mechanics or circumvent the normal order of production. All you can do is sponsor other players' game time in the hope that they'll give some of their earnings back to you.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#133 - 2014-08-28 00:58:06 UTC
If anything, EvE is far too solo player friendly already.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#134 - 2014-08-28 01:24:15 UTC
I think GD just got trolled hard. Evil

No one can be this stupid, to expect an MMO to play like a single player game.



o7
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#135 - 2014-08-28 01:31:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
PLEX is a form of pay-to-win, makes it easy to buy ships/skill books/implants although somewhat limited by what skills your character has trained.

Buying ready made characters via the bazaar is a form of pay-to-win.

Multiple accounts is also a form of pay-to-win, for obvious reasons, even CCP acknowledges this with their power of two adverts.
That's pretty much it.

Sure you can earn enough isk to plex your accounts however I see that as earning your "win" (term used loosely).
That means there is no P2W by the way. Paying doesn't offer any advantage over not paying, and if you're not getting any “win” for your “pay”, it can hardly count as P2W.

Anything you can pay for you can be had without paying for it. In fact, in order for you to be able to pay for it, it must already be available without paying for it because that's how the stuff in question comes into existence. At no point are you able to skip any mechanics or circumvent the normal order of production. All you can do is sponsor other players' game time in the hope that they'll give some of their earnings back to you.


EvE is a PvP game.

Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).

Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing.
Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.

Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.

Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage.

The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman and does not invalidate the P2W concept. In fact, it's because of such a statement that it becomes P2W. If it took the same amount of time regardless if you pay or do it in game, then it would not be P2W as there wouldn't be any advantage to doing it one way over the other. So if person A had to sit in station for 2 hours in order to turn that plex into isk, and if person B could earn the same amount of isk in two hours as person A does by selling the plex, then it would not be a P2W situation as neither one gets an advantage.

That's the whole point behind plex though. The fact you can sell it for isk in a fraction of the time it would take you to go out and earn that isk in game. If this advantage didn't exist, then there wouldn't be any point to even sell plex in the first place.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2014-08-28 01:32:41 UTC

What OP wants

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#137 - 2014-08-28 01:49:56 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Why is CCP so Hell bent on making people work together, be it missions, incursions, SOV etc in this game?

You can play EVE with minimal risk and interaction by avoiding any sort of PVP and being smart about things. It just makes sense if you want to get the job done right that you do it yourself. People already have multiple accounts in order to avoid having to deal with corp thieves and griefers or even having to rely on others to light cynos for you.

Personally I think the majority of the player base would prefer just to do their own thing. Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

CCP stop trying to tell me I have to play with other people to have fun.



There are times when I think CCP should have gone the other way a long time ago.

Missions for example, should have always had a protagonist antagonist element such that PVP would be worked into player missions and missions would be true dead space pockets where anything goes. Of course with a player base built on the subs of min-maxers, if you did that now there would be a mass exodus. But if it was like that from the beginning it would have been considered a finer point of the game.

Mining is also a missed avenue. Instead of a "mining character" there should not have been any mining ships for players. Players wanting to mine should have been allowed to purchase NPC mining ships and set them loose on the asteroids (OMG BUILT IN BOTTING!!!! OMG OMG!!! APOCSCALPISEYS!!!1!!) but any player at any time can kill an NPC mining ship and it would be up to the owner to defend them. It would have been better to do that rather than have this "boot/ass" relationship between PVP and mining.

Overall I don't really think they are forcing anybody to do anything considering how much could have been forced.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#138 - 2014-08-28 02:00:30 UTC
Angeal MacNova wrote:
EvE is a PvP game.
…and no amount of paying for it lets you win over the other player. Well, maybe if you count paying him off, but I think he'll call that a win on his end rather than on yours.

Quote:
Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).

Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing.
Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.

Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.

Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage.
But it wasn't an advantage he bought. Ugh
It's an advantage he spent time on.

What you're describing is the exact opposite of P2W and the very reason why EVE isn't a P2W game. PLEX is not even remotely a requirement for what you describe — that part is pure nonsense. What you need is time, not ISK. Selling PLEX does not let you skip over the time investment needed to win. If anything, you are giving away time by using PLEX the way you're describing: you're giving other people time that they can use on improving rather than doing it yourself.

Quote:
The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman
That's a good reason why you shouldn't try to use it as an argument, then. vOv
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#139 - 2014-08-28 02:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeal MacNova
Tippia wrote:
Angeal MacNova wrote:
EvE is a PvP game.
…and no amount of paying for it lets you win over the other player. Well, maybe if you count paying him off, but I think he'll call that a win on his end rather than on yours.

Quote:
Getting out there in your ship fighting other people's ships (one of the ways to PvP in EvE) is considered practice/experience. Under normal circumstances, a person gets better the more they practice (the more experience they gain).

Person A practices the entire time they are online. Let's say 3 hours a night. They spend the entire time practicing because they just buy plex and sell it in game for the isk they need to afford practicing.
Person B practices only 1 hour a night because the other 2 hours is spent grinding isk to afford practicing.

Someone being able to practice 3 hours a night has an absolute advantage over someone who is only able to practice 1 hour a night.

Therefore person A was able to buy an advantage.
But it wasn't an advantage he bought. Ugh
It's an advantage he spent time on.

What you're describing is the exact opposite of P2W and the very reason why EVE isn't a P2W game. PLEX is not even remotely a requirement for what you describe — that part is pure nonsense. What you need is time, not ISK. Selling PLEX does not let you skip over the time investment needed to win. If anything, you are giving away time by using PLEX the way you're describing: you're giving other people time that they can use on improving rather than doing it yourself.

Quote:
The "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" is a complete strawman
That's a good reason why you shouldn't try to use it as an argument, then. vOv


Lining it out doesn't make it untrue. It is true, undeniably true (although that won't stop troll from doing just that).

But I could use a good laugh to so please explain who person A "spent time" on the advantage.

Oh and it was you who used "because you can do it without paying, it just takes longer" within your argument.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#140 - 2014-08-28 02:17:13 UTC
Tl;DR

But its because based on numerical data, if someone joins eve and then plays with others they are like 1000x more likly to stay in eve long term, then someone who just solo plays. They have the numbers to back this up

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.