These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why the push to force people to work together?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#41 - 2014-08-27 11:21:50 UTC
metalravenous wrote:

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?


Nope.

They're playing the wrong game. And while they're free to do that, their errant behavior should not be catered to in the process.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#42 - 2014-08-27 11:22:18 UTC
metalravenous wrote:

Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?


No Im not. And I will not be drawn into insulting you because you don't want to read what I have written.

The majority of people who play EvE DO operate in Corps and Alliances and DO fleet up.

That is simply a fact and you can deny it if you like, but you are deluded or misled if you actually believe this.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-08-27 11:22:21 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
metalravenous wrote:

What I do is my own business and I'm not here to discuss ISK/hour. I am not trying to quantify anything, You are trying to make the point that more risk is more reward and I am saying no and even if it does it doesn't matter because I don't care. I just want to be able to play the game how I want to and how it is fun for me. My point is I don't think CCP should be investing time and resources in trying to push people together when they really don't want to be. It just creates bad feelings and bad Karma.


No, what Im trying to do is have an informed discussion about the point that you brought up.

In order for you to convince people of your point of view, you need to support your suppositions with evidence, at least anecdotal evidence, otherwise no one has any reason to see how you came to your conclusion.

You can say you don't care what others think of your supposition all you like, but then why announce your point of view in a public forum if you dont want to either discuss the pros and cons of it, or convince others to support your cause?

What exactly is your purpose in suggesting somehting that the majority clearly dont believe in in the first place?

Are you so unsure of your position and your original supposition that you are unwilling to provide anything at all to support your point of view?

If so, then please do, I want to hear why you think that it is the way it is, and if its compelling, perhaps you will have me and others support your case.

If not, then it would be polite to back down with some dignity.


Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?


I hear that there is this really good 11 year old single player space game called EVE Online that you could try.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#44 - 2014-08-27 11:22:54 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Seraph Essael wrote:
metalravenous wrote:
Burner missions are being used to force feed interactions that no one really wants to have and are just forcing people to get more accounts (tools for the job) and in turn making people use their hard earned isk to buy more expensive PLEX.

Wrong.

Burner missions are entirely optional and there is no standing loss for declining them.

Also, obligatory Eve is a multiplayer game. Sure its a sandbox, but stop complaining when someone comes and throws sand in your face because you want to play alone.



Burner missions are an example of a larger problem attitude that CCP has.

I am not complaining about sand being thrown in my face I am saying that CCP shouldn't be trying to force me to throw sand in someone else's face and trying to make me think I will some how enjoy it.
but they are completely and utterly optional, (and soloable, just hard) , I don't understand why you have a problem with them, you're not going to lose anything by choosing not to do them.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
shimiku
Zircron Industries
#45 - 2014-08-27 11:23:31 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
shimiku wrote:
i dont know if MMO is the key word here



http://www.kadeshi.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=184272

I'm sure that guy is happy you were all there to help him. Look at all his "friends" who whored on the kill as well. Roll


so ? its still a mmo where you play with other players they might kill you or not
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#46 - 2014-08-27 11:23:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all, and I mean this in regard to post #34, you're completely nuts.

Second of all, they encourage multiplayer gameplay because this is an MMO, the second M stands for Multiplayer.

Pretty much the only way you can genuinely play an MMO wrong is by trying to bury your head in the sand and play it like a single player game. If you want that there are plenty more games out there that are happy to enable antisocial behavior.



Is a purely market trader playing the MMO in the way that you are thinking? I would say no. In fact I would say a market trader playing against one of the many market bots in Jita is probably about as far removed from your idea of what an MMO is. Of course there are going to be interactions, that is inescapable, all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-08-27 11:26:06 UTC
Grunanca wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Because MMO companies just don't seem to learn.


Might be because they want to lose more subscriptions.




Basically it comes down to this, if you have content that people can join in with but do not have to join a group to do it then more people seem to be happier with that. Warhammer Online was a good example with their RvR (realm v's realm), yes I know it's a dead game now but it wasn't because of the RvR, but more because of the uneven realm populations.

Forcing people to group to do content just doesn't work because, there's a lot of players that won't join corps/guilds anymore for various reasons. So if content becomes more group orientated all it will do is push more people away from the game.

It's a sandbox, developers shouldn't try to push players into playing the way they want them to play.


As for those that keep saying it's an MMO you should have to group, you're still living in the stone age . MMO communities are much more varied these days.


And with all the solo games out there, why are these people thick skulled enough to play an MMO, where they cant do much alone, when they can be king of the world in some solo game. Seem to me they need to study the word MMO for a bit and find out what the 2 M's stand for... Why join a game and want to change it, just to annoy the people that already play and enjoy it, instead of just going with a solo game from the start?




Because AI's are too predictable, solo games feel empty.

People that solo in MMO's still interact with others they just don't join corps/guilds/gangs. Even having other people running around helps breath life into a game. There's a lot of solo MMO players around.

I solo most of the time, reasons being, been in player corps/guilds didn't like the way they run. Also when I play a game I don't want to have to play it the way someone else wants me to play or have someone following me around nearly all the time. Plus in groups you seem to spend so much wasted time just waiting for them to get organised. I don't even use voice software because of all the crap people speak, which I don't really want to listen to.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#48 - 2014-08-27 11:26:39 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
I have been scammed one too many times to see things this way. I am guessing as well you never had to wait a week to get some cynos lit because the guy who did it was in another time zone. when you wait for others you are paying CCP for nothing.

I personally have never been scammed and if I ever was, well my own fault. That wouldn't mean for me that the game was best played alone. Quite the opposite. In game friends can provide a lot more advice on what's a scam and what isn't than my small brain can decifer on its own. It's a matter of finding good friends.

On the cyno, no, never had to wait a week. Playing with others doesn't mean relying on them for everything. I have my own cyno alt, just like many in Corp do. If I need a cyno I can do it myself, but at the same time I don't always have to and my alt also provides cynos for others. Again, as far as my experience in game goes, working with others provides more opportunities than working alone does.

So, sorry to read some of your experience. Hope it eventually turns around for you.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#49 - 2014-08-27 11:27:23 UTC
metalravenous wrote:

Is a purely market trader playing the MMO in the way that you are thinking? I would say no.


You would say wrong. There is no more vicious PvP in this game than the market.


Quote:

In fact I would say a market trader playing against one of the many market bots in Jita is probably about as far removed from your idea of what an MMO is.


And I would say that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.


Quote:

Of course there are going to be interactions, that is inescapable, all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.


Tough luck. They don't tailor the game to you.

If you don't like it, then don't do those missions, or quit the game. Your choice. But you don't get to take content away from other people just because you don't have the spine to do it yourself.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#50 - 2014-08-27 11:27:37 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.


I have asked you what these interactions are and you essentially said "none of your business".

You've got nothing.

Drop it, and save yourself time and stress, dude.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#51 - 2014-08-27 11:27:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
metalravenous wrote:

Now you are just being wordy for the sake of being wordy and trying to complicate something simple.

At worse case minority or people don't want all of these PVP corp or alliance interactions. You don't think these people deserve to have their views respected?


No Im not. And I will not be drawn into insulting you because you don't want to read what I have written.

The majority of people who play EvE DO operate in Corps and Alliances and DO fleet up.

That is simply a fact and you can deny it if you like, but you are deluded or misled if you actually believe this.


I am pretty sure CCP's numbers indicate otherwise. In fact there have been whole patches dedicated to trying to get people out of high sec and in low and null.

You are also framing this in an us versus them fashion. I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-08-27 11:27:56 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all, and I mean this in regard to post #34, you're completely nuts.

Second of all, they encourage multiplayer gameplay because this is an MMO, the second M stands for Multiplayer.

Pretty much the only way you can genuinely play an MMO wrong is by trying to bury your head in the sand and play it like a single player game. If you want that there are plenty more games out there that are happy to enable antisocial behavior.



Is a purely market trader playing the MMO in the way that you are thinking? I would say no. In fact I would say a market trader playing against one of the many market bots in Jita is probably about as far removed from your idea of what an MMO is. Of course there are going to be interactions, that is inescapable, all I am saying is CCP needs to not be trying to force me to have more interactions then I want to have or feel comfortable having.


Actually CCP's information shows that market bots make up less than 1% of all other types of bot. Also market trading is pretty hardcore pvp & the fact that you may never actually talk to another person doesn't make it any less so.

You're playing a multiplayer game where literally everything you do has an effect on other people. Get used to it because the vast majority of people don't care about single player content & CCP shouldn't either.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#53 - 2014-08-27 11:29:40 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.


Those two sentences mean the same thing.

You want group content taken away from other people because you don't want to do it yourself.

Your entitlement is appalling.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#54 - 2014-08-27 11:29:52 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Grunanca wrote:
Grog Aftermath wrote:
Because MMO companies just don't seem to learn.


Might be because they want to lose more subscriptions.




Basically it comes down to this, if you have content that people can join in with but do not have to join a group to do it then more people seem to be happier with that. Warhammer Online was a good example with their RvR (realm v's realm), yes I know it's a dead game now but it wasn't because of the RvR, but more because of the uneven realm populations.

Forcing people to group to do content just doesn't work because, there's a lot of players that won't join corps/guilds anymore for various reasons. So if content becomes more group orientated all it will do is push more people away from the game.

It's a sandbox, developers shouldn't try to push players into playing the way they want them to play.


As for those that keep saying it's an MMO you should have to group, you're still living in the stone age . MMO communities are much more varied these days.


And with all the solo games out there, why are these people thick skulled enough to play an MMO, where they cant do much alone, when they can be king of the world in some solo game. Seem to me they need to study the word MMO for a bit and find out what the 2 M's stand for... Why join a game and want to change it, just to annoy the people that already play and enjoy it, instead of just going with a solo game from the start?




Because AI's are too predictable, solo games feel empty.

People that solo in MMO's still interact with others they just don't join corps/guilds/gangs. Even having other people running around helps breath life into a game. There's a lot of solo MMO players around.

I solo most of the time, reasons being, been in player corps/guilds didn't like the way they run. Also when I play a game I don't want to have to play it the way someone else wants me to play or have someone following me around nearly all the time. Plus in groups you seem to spend so much wasted time just waiting for them to get organised. I don't even use voice software because of all the crap people speak, which I don't really want to listen to.



I guess that is your opinion. I disagree. I find people in this game to be predictable in their back stabbing and why that is why I prefer a more solo experience.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-08-27 11:29:58 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.


Some citation is needed. Please show us where CCP has forced you to do something you didn't actually want to do.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#56 - 2014-08-27 11:30:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
metalravenous wrote:
I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.


Those two sentences mean the same thing.

You want group content taken away from other people because you don't want to do it yourself.

Your entitlement is appalling.


No I want CCP to take a more balanced approach. Sorry if you don't think I should be valued as a customer just as much as you.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#57 - 2014-08-27 11:33:11 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
I just want to be able to play the game how I want to and how it is fun for me.


Good news -- You can!

Not quite as good news -- so can I, and Mag's and Solecist Project, and Sibyyl, and Chribba, and James315, and Don Purple, and Erotica1 (OK, well, not since he's been banned...), and baltec, and Mittens, and Psychotic Monk, and Zedrick Cayne, and every other player in the game. A lot of times our goals will be in direct opposition to yours, and well ... limit what you can do.

Quote:
My point is I don't think CCP should be investing time and resources in trying to push people together when they really don't want to be. It just creates bad feelings and bad Karma.


You mean, like the 5+ years of development before 2003, and the 11 years thereafter that they've spent on making EVE?

You've heard it here first folks -- Developing the MMO EVE Online was a waste of time and resources.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#58 - 2014-08-27 11:33:29 UTC
metalravenous wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
metalravenous wrote:
I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.


Those two sentences mean the same thing.

You want group content taken away from other people because you don't want to do it yourself.

Your entitlement is appalling.


No I want CCP to take a more balanced approach. Sorry if you don't think I should be valued as a customer just as much as you.


They finally are taking a more balanced approach. This is the first piece of group friendly content they've produced in a long freaking time, and the second they do freaks like you pop up from under a mushroom and cry about how it exists at all.

You want a style of gameplay to be suppressed because you don't do it. Disgusting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#59 - 2014-08-27 11:33:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
metalravenous wrote:

I am pretty sure CCP's numbers indicate otherwise.

Numbers for what? People not in a corp vs people who are? Numbers of fleets active? If you have these, please link me to them.

metalravenous wrote:
In fact there have been whole patches dedicated to trying to get people out of high sec and in low and null.


What has that got to do with solo vs group play?

metalravenous wrote:
You are also framing this in an us versus them fashion. I am not saying you can't play the game how you want. I am saying that CCP shouldn't be making content that solely caters to or forces people into these situations.


It doesnt. If it does, please cite what content you are talking about. This is the third time you have been asked this and have yet to provide an example of this forced content.

However, you ARE asking for content that soley caters or forces people into solo play, so why is that okay by comparison?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#60 - 2014-08-27 11:33:56 UTC
I also do not think it is fair for anyone to be making the argument that this is how the game is and you started to play so now you can't try and shape it in a way that you want it to be. I mean any bittervet could use that as an argument to not change anything ever.