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[Proposal] Facility bonuses should work the way CCP said they would

First post
Author
Jon Lucien
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#1 - 2014-08-27 10:09:39 UTC
I'm reposting this in it's own thread because we're past Crius and moving on to the next expansion and this is still broken. This was a good feature and shouldn't just be silently cut.


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/ (April 29, 2014)

"System facilities: stations in a given system make a job cheaper. We want to ensure that the landscape is lumpy rather than flat, and it makes sense that systems with more stations (and more factory or research stations in particular) are better places to do specialized work. Every station in a system has two facility multipliers -- one for manufacturing and one for research -- and the system's various multipliers are all multiplied together and then multiplied with the price. (We do a lot of multiplication with pricing, and we therefore wield large calculators)

For NPC stations, these multipliers range between 0.95 and 0.98, based on how well the station's activity (factory, testing facility, warehouse etc) is judged to be suited to building and/or researching things. Stations can have different ratings for manufacturing and research. These are not huge numbers, but because they multiply together they can have a big effect. In manufacturing, the current record-holder in empire space is Nonni, with a multiplier of around 0.48 - building things in Nonni will, all other things being equal, halve the cost of installing a job.

For conquerables and outposts, we wanted to keep things pretty competitive despite being limited to one per system, so their multipliers range between 0.5 (manufacturing in an Amarr outpost or researching in a Caldari one) and 0.8 (all jobs in a Refining conquerable).

A couple of things should be noted here. First, these bonuses apply system-wide, including to jobs installed in starbases. Second, keep in mind that this is still a smallish percentage of the total build cost -- it's not a 50% reduction in build cost, it's a 50% reduction in job installation costs which are typically (well) below 10% of build cost."

And later
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/ (July 17, 2014 5 days before Crius)

"1. A reduction in price based on the stations and upgrades present in a system. Stations, Factional Warfare upgrades and certain outpost upgrades provide beneficial multipliers to costs. For any applicable job in a given system, the multipliers for all the stations and upgrades in that system are multiplied together with the base price. See Appendix 2 for a full list."



You guys posted this information 5 days before Crius was released. Taking this feature out would remove a reason for players to choose to build in some systems rather than others. Facility bonuses helped differentiate systems from each other.
Lilly Naari
Enclave Security Forces
#2 - 2014-08-29 10:02:51 UTC
Jon Lucien wrote:
I'm reposting this in it's own thread because we're past Crius and moving on to the next expansion and this is still broken. This was a good feature and shouldn't just be silently cut.


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/ (April 29, 2014)

"System facilities: stations in a given system make a job cheaper. We want to ensure that the landscape is lumpy rather than flat, and it makes sense that systems with more stations (and more factory or research stations in particular) are better places to do specialized work. Every station in a system has two facility multipliers -- one for manufacturing and one for research -- and the system's various multipliers are all multiplied together and then multiplied with the price. (We do a lot of multiplication with pricing, and we therefore wield large calculators)

For NPC stations, these multipliers range between 0.95 and 0.98, based on how well the station's activity (factory, testing facility, warehouse etc) is judged to be suited to building and/or researching things. Stations can have different ratings for manufacturing and research. These are not huge numbers, but because they multiply together they can have a big effect. In manufacturing, the current record-holder in empire space is Nonni, with a multiplier of around 0.48 - building things in Nonni will, all other things being equal, halve the cost of installing a job.

For conquerables and outposts, we wanted to keep things pretty competitive despite being limited to one per system, so their multipliers range between 0.5 (manufacturing in an Amarr outpost or researching in a Caldari one) and 0.8 (all jobs in a Refining conquerable).

A couple of things should be noted here. First, these bonuses apply system-wide, including to jobs installed in starbases. Second, keep in mind that this is still a smallish percentage of the total build cost -- it's not a 50% reduction in build cost, it's a 50% reduction in job installation costs which are typically (well) below 10% of build cost."

And later
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/ (July 17, 2014 5 days before Crius)

"1. A reduction in price based on the stations and upgrades present in a system. Stations, Factional Warfare upgrades and certain outpost upgrades provide beneficial multipliers to costs. For any applicable job in a given system, the multipliers for all the stations and upgrades in that system are multiplied together with the base price. See Appendix 2 for a full list."



You guys posted this information 5 days before Crius was released. Taking this feature out would remove a reason for players to choose to build in some systems rather than others. Facility bonuses helped differentiate systems from each other.


It wont matter anyway, have you looked at the blueprints? They decreased ineral income through refineing nerfs, then double and trippled material costs for tech 2 ships.

THEN to top it off they stealth modified the bonuses so they do not apply to Planetary components required to build things like.. POS's. So not matter how high your ME is on the print the material cost will ALWAYS be the same. (I know I have a 100 ME BPO for a caldari POS tower, and it's material costs are the same as a 0 ME one at perfect industry skills on my indy toon).

They essentially just insured the your about to pay through the nose in a few months for POS towers and anything that even remotely uses Planetary commodities.
Jon Lucien
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#3 - 2014-08-29 10:13:26 UTC
That really doesn't have anything to do with the issue I'm posting about, but thank you for the reply.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2014-08-29 11:24:35 UTC
uh, as far as I'm aware, it's still in there. It's just rolled into the system cost index.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2014-08-29 11:28:26 UTC
Lilly Naari wrote:

THEN to top it off they stealth modified the bonuses so they do not apply to Planetary components required to build things like.. POS's. So not matter how high your ME is on the print the material cost will ALWAYS be the same. (I know I have a 100 ME BPO for a caldari POS tower, and it's material costs are the same as a 0 ME one at perfect industry skills on my indy toon).

They essentially just insured the your about to pay through the nose in a few months for POS towers and anything that even remotely uses Planetary commodities.



Really? Because that doesn't match what I've seen.

There's a restriction that you can't drop something below 1 unit per run for a material, but that's it.

Do you have screenshots?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Jon Lucien
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#6 - 2014-08-29 19:17:20 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
uh, as far as I'm aware, it's still in there. It's just rolled into the system cost index.


They were given as 2 different modifiers to job cost in the two blogs I linked and again in the blog about 3rd party API endpoints in Crius.
Jon Lucien
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#7 - 2014-08-29 19:25:19 UTC
And here is the API info on the way it should be calculated. Spreadsheet this out and compare it to in-game numbers and you'll find a giant discrepancy where facility bonuses should be.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/

  1. Fetch the base material quantities for manufacturing the item from your blueprint, from the blueprints.yaml file in the SDE. In the case of invention and reverse engineering jobs you should use the materials from the T2 or T3 blueprint instead.

  2. Multiply each material quantity by the market adjustedPrice as returned from the /market/prices/ endpoint and sum them all together. This is called the base cost. For reverse engineering jobs with multiple possible outcomes calculate the baseCost for each then create an average.

  3. The base cost is then modified based on the type of activity:

  4. Manufacturing: baseCost x numberOfRuns
    Research: Sum for each level[ baseCost x 0.02 x researchMultiplierForLevel (see table below) ]
    Copying: baseCost x 0.02 x runsPerCopy x numberOfRuns
    Invention + Reverse Engineering: baseCost x 0.02

  5. Multiply the cost by the cost index returned in the /industry/systems/ resource, for the solar system you are installing the job in and the activity you are performing.

  6. Multiply the cost by any facility bonuses as described in the ramAssemblyLineTypes table in the SDE

  7. Add a 10% tax for NPC facilities, or the custom tax rate set for player outposts in nullsec