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High end mineral crisis

First post
Author
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2014-09-06 01:58:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

However, there are still vast mineral stockpiles which account for most of the minerals currently on sale and more in the pool, which are now 'stuck' in highsec because Null doesn't want to take the loss (66% return btw, not 50% for Null also, unless I've gone crazy) compressing them via modules anymore.

Scrap metal refines are the same everywhere. Facility efficiency doesn't factor into it. The max scrap refine you get is 55% (where the extra 5% comes from having Scrap Metal Reprocessing trained to 5.)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#82 - 2014-09-06 02:29:02 UTC
Querns wrote:

Scrap metal refines are the same everywhere. Facility efficiency doesn't factor into it. The max scrap refine you get is 55% (where the extra 5% comes from having Scrap Metal Reprocessing trained to 5.)

Cheers, I was under the impression it came from the base facility. Not being in Null atm, I didn't have any way to check that one.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2014-09-06 02:33:51 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Querns wrote:

Scrap metal refines are the same everywhere. Facility efficiency doesn't factor into it. The max scrap refine you get is 55% (where the extra 5% comes from having Scrap Metal Reprocessing trained to 5.)

Cheers, I was under the impression it came from the base facility. Not being in Null atm, I didn't have any way to check that one.


It seems like you have lot of input on items related to nullsec when you don't even have real access to nullsec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#84 - 2014-09-06 02:54:28 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

It seems like you have lot of input on items related to nullsec when you don't even have real access to nullsec.

Been there in the past, it was a sucky experience overall, lots of tedium, inability to farm at lower skills, lots of do what you are told. And everything I've seen says that has gotten worse since I was there, not better. I'm sure you will say it's not like that for Goons, and you might be right for your alliance.

However the mere fact that I don't live in Nullsec right now as part of one of the two great coalitions does not mean I have no clue about things, nor does it mean I have no input of value to what the future of Nullsec should look like.

But hey, attack the messenger is much easier than actually answering the argument that all the ore you need is right there in your systems already, and if it's not enough and you can't import from high sec, you can always take some ore from your neighbours static belts instead. That's Null Sec working as designed.
Bella Sprout
Just Post
Goonswarm Federation
#85 - 2014-09-06 03:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bella Sprout
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

It seems like you have lot of input on items related to nullsec when you don't even have real access to nullsec.

Been there in the past, it was a sucky experience overall, lots of tedium, inability to farm at lower skills, lots of do what you are told. And everything I've seen says that has gotten worse since I was there, not better. I'm sure you will say it's not like that for Goons, and you might be right for your alliance.

However the mere fact that I don't live in Nullsec right now as part of one of the two great coalitions does not mean I have no clue about things, nor does it mean I have no input of value to what the future of Nullsec should look like.

But hey, attack the messenger is much easier than actually answering the argument that all the ore you need is right there in your systems already, and if it's not enough and you can't import from high sec, you can always take some ore from your neighbours static belts instead. That's Null Sec working as designed.


Since you keep going back to nullsec belts, I have to at least point out that your scan of a nullsec belt is not representative of all belts in nullsec.

Example: Belts in -0.7 and -0.8 in deklein tend to have 10-13 rocks of each of the following: crokite, ochre, hedbergite, hemorphite, jaspet, mercoxit, pyroxeres, scordite, spodumain, and veldspar. Notably absent are gneiss and plagioclase, two of the most desirable ores for people short on mexallon. Add to that the fact that the 'higher end' ore rocks are larger than the lower end rocks (for example: a crokite rock is on average ~4 times larger by volume than a veldspar or kernite rock), and the relative balance of each belt still isn't looking too great though it's probably still better than the ratios in an ore anomaly.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-09-06 06:04:23 UTC
Hey... if regular nullsec belts are too crappy for you guys, maybe CCP can move them all to highsec as anomalies. Then it might be worth mining enough ore in highsec to compress and haul.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#87 - 2014-09-06 07:15:28 UTC
Bella Sprout wrote:


Since you keep going back to nullsec belts, I have to at least point out that your scan of a nullsec belt is not representative of all belts in nullsec.

Example: Belts in -0.7 and -0.8 in deklein tend to have 10-13 rocks of each of the following: crokite, ochre, hedbergite, hemorphite, jaspet, mercoxit, pyroxeres, scordite, spodumain, and veldspar. Notably absent are gneiss and plagioclase, two of the most desirable ores for people short on mexallon. Add to that the fact that the 'higher end' ore rocks are larger than the lower end rocks (for example: a crokite rock is on average ~4 times larger by volume than a veldspar or kernite rock), and the relative balance of each belt still isn't looking too great though it's probably still better than the ratios in an ore anomaly.

Actually, that indicates that my scan was fairly typical. Since the only 'High End anomaly' rocks in that belt are Crokite & Spod. And Crokite is currently in demand value wise. As the most valuable ore other than Mercoxit.
Heb, Ochre, Hem & Jaspet all have good value returns also. Unlike A & B.
And assuming you are right that Gneiss & Plag are missing, chances are that because they don't spawn in Gurista's space in static belts.
Not because they don't spawn in Null. Go to other area's of Null and you will see your missing Gneiss & Plag.

For reference
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Asteroid_belts
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Locations_of_ore_and_ice_in_space

Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-09-08 05:11:09 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Querns wrote:

Scrap metal refines are the same everywhere. Facility efficiency doesn't factor into it. The max scrap refine you get is 55% (where the extra 5% comes from having Scrap Metal Reprocessing trained to 5.)

Cheers, I was under the impression it came from the base facility. Not being in Null atm, I didn't have any way to check that one.


So you're saying that everything you previous said about ore mining in null you just pulled outta your ...s, and you actually have no clue about mining in nullsec. Thanks for confirming that.
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-09-08 05:18:05 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Bella Sprout wrote:


Since you keep going back to nullsec belts, I have to at least point out that your scan of a nullsec belt is not representative of all belts in nullsec.

Example: Belts in -0.7 and -0.8 in deklein tend to have 10-13 rocks of each of the following: crokite, ochre, hedbergite, hemorphite, jaspet, mercoxit, pyroxeres, scordite, spodumain, and veldspar. Notably absent are gneiss and plagioclase, two of the most desirable ores for people short on mexallon. Add to that the fact that the 'higher end' ore rocks are larger than the lower end rocks (for example: a crokite rock is on average ~4 times larger by volume than a veldspar or kernite rock), and the relative balance of each belt still isn't looking too great though it's probably still better than the ratios in an ore anomaly.

Actually, that indicates that my scan was fairly typical. Since the only 'High End anomaly' rocks in that belt are Crokite & Spod. And Crokite is currently in demand value wise. As the most valuable ore other than Mercoxit.
Heb, Ochre, Hem & Jaspet all have good value returns also. Unlike A & B.
And assuming you are right that Gneiss & Plag are missing, chances are that because they don't spawn in Gurista's space in static belts.
Not because they don't spawn in Null. Go to other area's of Null and you will see your missing Gneiss & Plag.

For reference
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Asteroid_belts
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Locations_of_ore_and_ice_in_space



Crokite is full of Zydrine, if you want to keep crashing the already over supplied zydrine market, mine Crokite.
The most valuable ore atm is Hedbergite, and is hardly present in the nullsec belts. Something you would know if you were actually doing any mining in nullsec.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-09-08 05:40:21 UTC
Bella Sprout wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

It seems like you have lot of input on items related to nullsec when you don't even have real access to nullsec.

Been there in the past, it was a sucky experience overall, lots of tedium, inability to farm at lower skills, lots of do what you are told. And everything I've seen says that has gotten worse since I was there, not better. I'm sure you will say it's not like that for Goons, and you might be right for your alliance.

However the mere fact that I don't live in Nullsec right now as part of one of the two great coalitions does not mean I have no clue about things, nor does it mean I have no input of value to what the future of Nullsec should look like.

But hey, attack the messenger is much easier than actually answering the argument that all the ore you need is right there in your systems already, and if it's not enough and you can't import from high sec, you can always take some ore from your neighbours static belts instead. That's Null Sec working as designed.


Since you keep going back to nullsec belts, I have to at least point out that your scan of a nullsec belt is not representative of all belts in nullsec.

Example: Belts in -0.7 and -0.8 in deklein tend to have 10-13 rocks of each of the following: crokite, ochre, hedbergite, hemorphite, jaspet, mercoxit, pyroxeres, scordite, spodumain, and veldspar. Notably absent are gneiss and plagioclase, two of the most desirable ores for people short on mexallon. Add to that the fact that the 'higher end' ore rocks are larger than the lower end rocks (for example: a crokite rock is on average ~4 times larger by volume than a veldspar or kernite rock), and the relative balance of each belt still isn't looking too great though it's probably still better than the ratios in an ore anomaly.



Hi, can you link or list what is actually in one of the belts as an average? Noting the number of asteroids does not represent the amount of ore present, I am interested in the general composition of asteroids in a representative belt and with your access to deklein that should be very easy. An ore scan of the entire belt or simply a section. with a total count of asteroids by type would be great.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#91 - 2014-09-08 06:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Ohkewl wrote:

Crokite is full of Zydrine, if you want to keep crashing the already over supplied zydrine market, mine Crokite.
The most valuable ore atm is Hedbergite, and is hardly present in the nullsec belts. Something you would know if you were actually doing any mining in nullsec.

Zydrine is actually showing a slight gain in most hubs atm, if you follow the price graphs. And of course I don't mine in Null, not living there and all like the goonies and their buddies.
However.... Refer to the other thread for the breakdowns on what is in a 0.0 belt along with average ore in them and numbers of asteroids of a type. Since none of the Null sec dwellers crying about anything could be bothered to generate actual proof, I went out there and actually got some data.


Edit https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4984775#post4984775
That post shows the break down. Different low sec ores are available depending which region you are in, so find the correct region for the low sec ore you most need.
And if it's owned by someone else, just take it? That is what Goons do right. Fight for important resources.....
Or is it just complain till CCP hands it to you on a plate.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-09-08 14:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Ok here's a new one for you all.

Apparently there is a glut of ls/ns ores and minerals atm.

I mine in hs and I can now compress Veld, Scor and Plag.

I'm willing to go fill an Orca full of any of them, compress them and trade for ore with a good amount of Nocx, compressed as well.

Now don't go on about the difference in value, i'm not interested...You need, I need, let's trade.

Like you, I need it for manufacturing and Pyro just ain't giving me enough.

Cheers.

Edit, I'll meet anyone in Dodixie prefered or within a few jumps, HS ONLY

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Rahelis
Doomheim
#93 - 2014-09-08 14:52:25 UTC
Mine in low sec - it is easy - you get all the mins you need.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#94 - 2014-09-08 20:00:27 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Mine in low sec - it is easy - you get all the mins you need.


Tried that, got gate camped twice and i'll never try again.

And before you all start, no i'm not risk averse..I just don't believe in throwing away good money after bad.

It's a bad financial decision.


Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#95 - 2014-09-08 20:33:06 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Mine in low sec - it is easy - you get all the mins you need.


Mining in belts is the absolute worst thing you can do in lowsec and nullsec. It works in highsec because people can largely mine completely afk with the only threat being suicide gankers (which you can't stop). You cannot do that in null or lowsec.

But if you listen to people that have said themselves that they don't live in null, they'll tell you that null belts are the best and are where you should be Roll
Bella Sprout
Just Post
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2014-09-08 20:51:27 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:

Hi, can you link or list what is actually in one of the belts as an average? Noting the number of asteroids does not represent the amount of ore present, I am interested in the general composition of asteroids in a representative belt and with your access to deklein that should be very easy. An ore scan of the entire belt or simply a section. with a total count of asteroids by type would be great.



I've already said what ores are present in -0.7 and -0.8 deklein--the 10 or so belts I check all had 10-13 rocks of: crokite, ochre, hedbergite, hemorphie, jaspet, mercoxit, pyroxeres, scordite, spodumain, and veldspar. Each ore type had a similar distribution of 0, 5, and 10% ores. For asteroid sizes, I can tell you off of the top of my head that the crokite rocks averaged between 3.5k to 4k units, or about 60km3 of ore, whereas the veldspar and kernite rocks averaged around 15-16km3. I don't remember the sizes of the other rocks, because I was really most interested in kernite and plagioclase (which wasn't there), but I can check later today if you want
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#97 - 2014-09-08 21:05:15 UTC
Rahelis wrote:
Mine in low sec - it is easy - you get all the mins you need.


There is nothing in EVE more pointless than mining in lowsec. Either you get exploded in a belt, exploded at station dock/undock, exploded at a gate, or exploded in transit with your hauler. People who advocate mining in lowsec have never tried to mine in lowsec (other than ninja mining, which is a waste of time). Lowsec is fun if you like PVP, but there's a reason there's almost no industry there -- there's no point to it. You can't get anything you mine/make into hisec to sell it, and nobody wants to pay lowsec prices for it if you try to sell in low.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#98 - 2014-09-09 01:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Mr Omniblivion wrote:


Mining in belts is the absolute worst thing you can do in lowsec and nullsec. It works in highsec because people can largely mine completely afk with the only threat being suicide gankers (which you can't stop). You cannot do that in null or lowsec.

But if you listen to people that have said themselves that they don't live in null, they'll tell you that null belts are the best and are where you should be Roll

Except Belts in Null Sec are identical to Industrial Anoms. And Nullsec you have far greater control over who enters your system. And people do mine in low sec also.
So.... Yes, If you live in Null sec or low sec, you can mine there. Day trippers shouldn't.

You just want to sit there denying that Null Belts exist so CCP will give you another free hand out to continue crushing everyone else.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2014-09-09 16:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except Belts in Null Sec are identical to Industrial Anoms.


You literally have no clue what you are talking about, this is absolutely incorrect.

But please, continue telling us about how to live in nullsec based on your vast experience there.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#100 - 2014-09-09 16:38:20 UTC
As much as I relish hearing goon whine my tear buckets are full


Anyone who counts asteroids to determine belt composition is a, well, I can't say without getting banned, but suffice it to say, what you say after that has ZERO meaning


We told CCP Fozzie at EvE vegas last year that Mex was way out of proportion to everything else, he sneered and said he didn't think it would matter and he would monitor it

fast forward to now, they added Nocx, pyerite and mex to ABC ore's (Yes, I know some were increased, some were added)

That still leaves the OVERALL ratio of everything to mex and somewhat Isogen very skewed, plus the ratio of tritanium is horrid

I mean, sure nullsec has to supply Morphite, Megacyte and Zydrine, I get that, but right now hey are being supplied in a manner that far exceeds the ability to supply Pyerite and trit in nullsec



tl:dr Mexallon is still out of sync with everything else, wether it gets increased in arkornor further or pyro, kernite, plagio or a bit in all of them.

Either way, the ratio of Mexallon mined to Mexallon used in production is out of sync