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High end mineral crisis

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Author
onions2
Overwhelming Synergy
#61 - 2014-09-04 07:44:36 UTC
This thread amuses me.

This char is now my miner - also my 'new' main char (sold my main a few years ago and recently came back) and i have an alt that i use for PVE / missions and picking up the cans from my miner.

I had a little 'play' last night in my local ore belt, with my Covetor, running 3 x T1 strips, 2 x mining upgrade II's (works out just under 2800M3 per cycle on all 3) and filling up my Miasmos. After a quick bit of math, i worked out that 3 hours of mining Veld (all 3 types) with my current set up, covers my 'cost' for the day* If i feel like it, i'll go and do a bit more but usually after that, i then switch to my alt and go pirate bashing or doing security missions for the dollar.

I mine whatever is convenient to me - usually what ever is in my sector - Highsec too, i might point out - purely for the reason that i can't be arsed with the upheaval of moving all my crap in to nullsec, because back when i played last time (around 4 years ago) miners used to spend a solid 80% of their time stuck in the stations in Null due to the fact that it wasn't safe - a bad investment.

From what i understand, Null is no longer as dangerous as it was but is it actually worth me moving there now, after all the posts about the prices crapping out ? Everyone is out to make money, the prices are totally wacked and in the end it'll be the miners that take the hit from it.



*my mining character's cost per day is worked out quite simply. The cost of a plex, divided by 30 (days) divided by 5 (hours) which then tells me what my miner needs to make in isk. (25M p/d - currently 3 full loads of Veld)

“To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill”

Elinarien
Doomheim
#62 - 2014-09-04 08:00:17 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:

Lowsec is more exciting, but it's hard to make ISK there. Hisec is where you go to make the ISKies. (And that makes sense lore-wise. Money follows safety and robust commerce.)

It makes no sense game-wise, as reward should correlate with risk. But yes, if you want to mine profitably highsec is the place to do it.


Risk? I would argue that right now, there is probably more risk for a miner in a 0.6 system where there is unconstrained free movement for those wishing to take out said miner's ship than there is in most null systems that are locked down by the power blocs.

Indeed, why on earth are those blocs not muscling in on those 0.6 and 0.5 systems, clearing out the existing miners there either by ganking or wardecs and controlling access to the belts for their own use. That would be a better solution for Eve than CPP messing around with the mechanics.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#63 - 2014-09-04 09:44:13 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

Saying "leave it as it is because I'm making a profit and this is the best change ever made to Eve" is not a valid argument. It is not reasonable for all of nullsec to be fed by a spergy clickfest of 12+ freighter alts with titan support.

Edit: This is even further compounded when taking into consideration rorqual boosts vs orca boosts in high sec. If you have an equal number of equally skilled players mining in Null and High Sec, the high end minerals will be supplied at a much higher rate than the low end minerals (compared to their demand from t1 production).


"Buy order -> compress -> sell" is a nifty little niche right now. The problem is getting the idiots in NPC Corps on board with "hey stupid, you're throwing ISK away" ... but they're set in their ways, and will never listen to anyone.

True, the rorq vs. Orca boosts do throw things off a bit ... but on the other hand, lowends are significantly smaller than the highends --> ABC is (IIRC) 16 m3/unit vs 0.1, 0.15, 0.3, 0.6, 1.2 for Veld, Scord, Plag, Pyrox/Omber, Kernite.

(NOTE -- numbers pulled from memory, I might be off).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#64 - 2014-09-04 09:57:00 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:


What are some ideas on what to do?



Mine whatever makes you the most ISK/hr?

T-
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#65 - 2014-09-04 12:24:44 UTC
Elinarien wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:

Lowsec is more exciting, but it's hard to make ISK there. Hisec is where you go to make the ISKies. (And that makes sense lore-wise. Money follows safety and robust commerce.)

It makes no sense game-wise, as reward should correlate with risk. But yes, if you want to mine profitably highsec is the place to do it.


Risk? I would argue that right now, there is probably more risk for a miner in a 0.6 system where there is unconstrained free movement for those wishing to take out said miner's ship than there is in most null systems that are locked down by the power blocs.

Indeed, why on earth are those blocs not muscling in on those 0.6 and 0.5 systems, clearing out the existing miners there either by ganking or wardecs and controlling access to the belts for their own use. That would be a better solution for Eve than CPP messing around with the mechanics.


Eh. There are large expanses of nullsec that are deserted. Back in the day you had to have dscan open all the time and be mindful of reds in-system, but these days I've gone for hours without seeing a single other soul in-system. If you find some dead system far off the usual transit routes, and are on good terms with the locals, it's about as safe as hisec.

The problem with mining out in null is, and has pretty much always been, logistics. It's hard for a small corp (or one person running an army of alts) to mine profitably out in null. You need a POS for staging, and that raises your profile in the area (someone *will* find it). If you're in sov null, you have to pay the owners for the privilege; if in NPC null, you're going to get bashed by bored roamers. And even after you collect your ore (and these days, compress it), you still have to sell it. It's easier now than it used to be due to jump-bridges and jump-freighters, but again: smaller corps may not have access to these things, and trying to take a blockade runner full of compressed ore into Jita for sale is a suicide mission. My strategy was to contract out my ore in null and have buyers come pick it up. I made less ISK than I would have made in high, but that assumes I could even *get* my ore into hisec to sell. (But mining for manufacturing purposes, while easier in some respects, has the opposite problem: you have to import lots of trit and pyerite and mexallon, which gives you the same difficulties in reverse.)

I quit living in null a long while back because, unless you're in a big corp/alliance, it's hard to live out there. (That's by design, by the way; I'm not complaining about it, it's just the way the game is.) Lowsec is a blast for shooting stuff, but it's hopeless as far as industry goes (although you can do PI there if you're careful). Trying to mine in lowsec is a lossmail waiting to happen.

Hisec mining is the best ISK/hr mining gig there is, especially with the recent changes to POS anchoring (no more standings requirements) and the introduction of the compression array (you can haul in a Miasmos instead of needing a freighter). Veldspar is still the best ISK/hr ore to mine, and it's abundant all over hisec space.

The mining mechanic is boring and dumb, but the mining profession (at least in hisec) has never been better or easier.
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#66 - 2014-09-04 16:38:38 UTC
Elinarien wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:

Lowsec is more exciting, but it's hard to make ISK there. Hisec is where you go to make the ISKies. (And that makes sense lore-wise. Money follows safety and robust commerce.)

It makes no sense game-wise, as reward should correlate with risk. But yes, if you want to mine profitably highsec is the place to do it.


Risk? I would argue that right now, there is probably more risk for a miner in a 0.6 system where there is unconstrained free movement for those wishing to take out said miner's ship than there is in most null systems that are locked down by the power blocs.

Indeed, why on earth are those blocs not muscling in on those 0.6 and 0.5 systems, clearing out the existing miners there either by ganking or wardecs and controlling access to the belts for their own use. That would be a better solution for Eve than CPP messing around with the mechanics.


The CFC doesn't mine because it is full of whiners who only want to shoot stuff by pressing F1 mindlessly. Instead of solving their own problem by recruiting miners and industrialists from high sec, they come to the forums and cry to CCP about changing the game to work around their lack of ability.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2014-09-04 17:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:

Hisec mining is the best ISK/hr mining gig there is, especially with the recent changes to POS anchoring (no more standings requirements) and the introduction of the compression array (you can haul in a Miasmos instead of needing a freighter). Veldspar is still the best ISK/hr ore to mine, and it's abundant all over hisec space.


People keep saying that hisec mining is the best ISK/hr and that veldspar is the most profitable. Have any of you actually done the math? Every other ore except omber is more valuable than veldspar. If you're not a bad, you should park at a belt and just strip everything within range (except omber) for the most actual isk gained per played hour.

If you have a 100% perfect Hulk- all V's, t2 drones with 100% uptime, a 100% max orca booster and a hauler, you're making roughly 45 mil an hour mining pyroxeres (+10-20% if you sell compressed version). With that same hulk, veldspar is making roughly 36 mil an hour.

Just because "there is more" veldspar doesn't mean that it's more isk/hour- if you're cherry picking the veld and leaving everything else, you need to learn some math.


GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
The CFC doesn't mine because it is full of whiners who only want to shoot stuff by pressing F1 mindlessly. Instead of solving their own problem by recruiting miners and industrialists from high sec, they come to the forums and cry to CCP about changing the game to work around their lack of ability.


If only there were an in game mechanic to see the mining volume within a given system...hmmm
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2014-09-04 20:49:32 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Zetaomega333 wrote:


What are some ideas on what to do?



Mine whatever makes you the most ISK/hr?

T-


My suggestion is to only mine ice, it completely blows away profits from any ore. Then spend the downtime between spawns cloaky camping nullsec systems.

Tears and Ice, it's a thing of beauty.

If you insist on mining ore, do the L4 mining missions. It's decent isk, and 99.99% safe from all the -10 security gankers in highsec.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#69 - 2014-09-04 21:22:09 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

People keep saying that hisec mining is the best ISK/hr and that veldspar is the most profitable. Have any of you actually done the math?

Null has exactly the same ores in the static belts in slightly larger quantities with the addition of the lucrative 'low sec' ores as well. So Null Static belts are always going to be more valuable than High static belts.
The industry anoms may not be based on ore prices. But Null will always win out on potential income. They just have to turn that potential into reality.
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#70 - 2014-09-05 01:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tolkaz Khamsi
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
People keep saying that hisec mining is the best ISK/hr and that veldspar is the most profitable. Have any of you actually done the math? Every other ore except omber is more valuable than veldspar.


If you actually think that...you're doing your math very, very wrong. Or you're not taking into account anything other than the sale value of the minerals that can be refined from the ore, which is a huge mistake.

1. Veld is more compact (even before compression) than any other ore. That means you can fit more Veld ore into a given m3 volume than any other ore.
2. Veld is available in abundance anywhere in eve, simplifying logistics to a massive degree.
3. Veld is in constant demand, and retains value better than any other ore in the game.
4. Many many spreadsheets over the entire lifespan of Eve has shown that Veldspar is the best ISK/hr ore in the game if you're mining for profit. It's been true for ten years.
5. Veld can be mined right away by nearly anyone with Day 1 skills, and will make you around 5M ISK/hr with a Venture and T1 lasers. A noob isn't going to be able to make that kind of ISK doing anything else -- not L1 missions, not exploration, not PI. Early on, mining is probably the best-paying profession there is, and Veld is the reason why. (That math stops working around the time you skill up enough to run Level 3 missions, but that's outside the scope of the discussion.)

The value of a given ore isn't just in the sale price of the minerals that can be extracted from it. On paper, isogen is a far better mineral than tritanium, so you'd think that Omber would be a better ore to mine than Veld, wouldn't you? Yet you'd be badly wrong. Omber sucks -- it's the worst ore in the game, by far. Why? Because it's too bulky -- in terms of m3 volume to value per unit, Veld is the far superior ore.

In fact, Veld is even better now than ever before due to compression. The biggest drawback to mining veldspar before was that to sell profitable amounts of it at market, you needed a freighter to move it. That's no longer true -- you can use a cheap Miasmos now.

Everything I said about Veld is true of Scordite to a great degree as well.

But remember: I'm talking about mining for profit, not mining for manufacturing purposes.

Listen to the Gospel of Chribba, children. Mine veldspar!
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
#71 - 2014-09-05 02:08:49 UTC
I was just looking at the Cerlestes ore table, and one thing jumped out at me: the nullsec ores have collapsed when compared against lowsec ores. And since almost nobody mines in lowsec, the value of lowsec ore is tied to the fact that it's comparatively rare compared to nullsec and hisec ores.

Consider this: as of this writing, Arkonor is barely better than straight Veld in terms of value. The spike in pyerite prices pushes scordite above even bistot in value. In fact, hisec ores in total are more valuable than nullsec ores, with lowsec ores being the most valuable of all (because almost no one is mining them -- supply and demand).

So think of all the dimensions of being profitable at mining. It's not just getting the ore into your hold; it's getting it to market in volume. Veld (and scord) win that battle by a mile. You can pick a system one jump away from any trade hub and mine all the veld and scord you want. And being only one hop away from a trade hub, you don't even have to mess around with hauling logistics.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#72 - 2014-09-05 16:12:22 UTC
Zetaomega333 wrote:
So im sure lots of you have noticed how the 2 highest end minerals are next to worthless. Ark is on the bottom of the list and bist is in the middle.

Something needs to be done as the rarest ores arnt worth **** anymore. Nocx is worth more than zydrine.

What are some ideas on what to do?

I had a personal suggestion of trippling the zydrine and mega amount used in capital components. Mind you im a big builder of capitals so this would effect me in production, but it would also make nullsec ore worth somthing again.


Fix the sov mechanic so that we actually have bigger wars out in null. ABC prices are only low because there are no big battles, so no big need for hardcore T2 production.

Low ABC prices are a symptom. Treat the cause, which is the blue doughnut preventing ships from asploding.
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#73 - 2014-09-05 16:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Retar Aveymone
Cidanel Afuran wrote:

Fix the sov mechanic so that we actually have bigger wars out in null. ABC prices are only low because there are no big battles, so no big need for hardcore T2 production.

Low ABC prices are a symptom. Treat the cause, which is the blue doughnut preventing ships from asploding.

Actually what you're trying to say is 'fix battleships, so nullsec uses them again' because the t2 doctrines used now use negligible amounts of high-ends. Nobody uses massed battlecruisers or battleships anymore (except the CFC with baltecs, but we don't lose those). Fleets of t2 or t3 ships getting welped don't matter until someone busts out a marauder doctrine. But really you'd want to incentivize massive capital fights again as those burn minerals like nobody's business. But those don't happen because supercaps.

Even so, that would not fix the ratio issue because if you managed to get t1 production high enough to make high-ends not glutted you'd have ran out of trit long ago.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#74 - 2014-09-05 16:35:00 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:

Fix the sov mechanic so that we actually have bigger wars out in null. ABC prices are only low because there are no big battles, so no big need for hardcore T2 production.

Low ABC prices are a symptom. Treat the cause, which is the blue doughnut preventing ships from asploding.

Actually what you're trying to say is 'fix battleships, so nullsec uses them again' because the t2 doctrines used now use negligible amounts of high-ends. Nobody uses massed battlecruisers or battleships anymore (except the CFC with baltecs, but we don't lose those). Fleets of t2 or t3 ships getting welped don't matter until someone busts out a marauder doctrine. But really you'd want to incentivize massive capital fights again as those burn minerals like nobody's business. But those don't happen because supercaps.

Even so, that would not fix the ratio issue because if you managed to get t1 production high enough to make high-ends not glutted you'd have ran out of trit long ago.


You put it better than I did.

I am not saying that is the end all-be all answer, but I think it definitely contributes.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2014-09-05 17:20:12 UTC
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
A whole lot of bad and incorrect information


Thank you for validating all of my previous comments about many highsec miners being bad at math.

Try actually running the numbers on isk/m3 on the highsec ores. Isogen is more valuable than Tritanium, but Omber absolutely sucks because it has a low portion of isogen compared to how much m3 it weighs. Do yourself a favor and download Dedaf's Industrial Tool listed in the S&I thread.

The most isk per hour for a highsec miner is to land at a belt and mine out everything except omber (preferably with a hauler and a booster). If you're solo mining, then cherry picking the Pyroxeres/Kernite/Scordite is the best income per hour (if it's at the belt you have access to).
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#76 - 2014-09-05 17:43:13 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:
A whole lot of bad and incorrect information


Thank you for validating all of my previous comments about many highsec miners being bad at math.

Try actually running the numbers on isk/m3 on the highsec ores. Isogen is more valuable than Tritanium, but Omber absolutely sucks because it has a low portion of isogen compared to how much m3 it weighs. Do yourself a favor and download Dedaf's Industrial Tool listed in the S&I thread.

The most isk per hour for a highsec miner is to land at a belt and mine out everything except omber (preferably with a hauler and a booster). If you're solo mining, then cherry picking the Pyroxeres/Kernite/Scordite is the best income per hour (if it's at the belt you have access to).


Or better yet, train up perfect refining, buy the raw ore newbies blindly drop in the market, refine it and sell it back refined.

Better ISK without the risk of a suicide gank.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2014-09-05 17:46:45 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Or better yet, train up perfect refining, buy the raw ore newbies blindly drop in the market, refine it and sell it back refined.

Better ISK without the risk of a suicide gank.


I'm pretty sure there's a 15+ page thread on how compressed ore is more valuable than refining it, as well as refining the ore actually loses value.

As of a few days ago:

Shoogie wrote:

These prices pulled from Eve Central a few minutes ago. These are all Jita top buy prices. Obviously, prices will vary with time and the market you are actually in. Also, the prices for Kernite and Omber may be skewed somewhat. Those ores do not normally appear in Caldari space and someone who hauled them to Jita will expect to be paid for that work.

Minerals:
Tritanium: 5.25
Pyerite: 10.85
Mexallon: 57.70
Isogen: 124.00
Nocxium: 675.46

Raw Ores:
Veldspar: 18.19 (that is, 181.90 isk/m3)
Scordite: 31.62 (210.80 isk/m3)
Pyroxeres: 64.25 (214.17 isk/m3)
Plagioclase: 74.03 (211.51 isk/m3)
Omber: 80.04 (133.40 isk/m3)
Kernite: 260.48 (217.07 isk/m3)

Compressed Ores:
Compressed Veldspar: 2200.00
Compressed Scordite: 3500.00
Compressed Pyroxeres: 7599.99
Compressed Plagioclase: 9000.00
Compressed Omber: 9002.41
Compressed Kernite: 29578.35


Assuming perfect skills, implant, and 50% NPC station:

100 units of raw Veldspar could be sold for 1819.00 isk. Refining it turns it into 300.46 tritanium. (I kept the fraction because in reality you are going to refine your whole stack at once and not individual batches.) The value of the tritanium is 1577.42 isk. (13.3% loss) Compressing it increases the value to 2200 (20.9% profit)

100 Scordite = 3162.00 isk. Refined =250.504 trit, 125.252 pyer = 2674.13 isk (15.4% loss) Compressed = 3500.00 isk (10.6% profit)

100 Pyroxeres = 6425.00 isk. Refined = 254.124 trit, 18.1 pyer, 36.2 mex, 3.62 nocx = 6064.44 isk (5.6% loss) Compressed = 7599.99 isk (18.3% profit)

100 Plagioclase = 7403.00 isk. Refined = 77.468 trit, 154.212 pyer, 77.468 mex = 6549.81 isk (11.5% loss) Compressed = 9000.00 isk (21.6% profit)

100 Omber = 8004.00 isk. Refined = 61.54 trit, 24.616 pyer, 61.54 iso = 8221.13 isk (2.7% profit) Compressed = 9002.41 isk (12.5% profit)

100 Kernite = 26048.00 isk. Refined = 97.016 trit, 193.308 mex, 97.016 iso = 23693.19 isk (9.0% loss) Compressed = 29578.35 isk (13.6% profit)

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#78 - 2014-09-05 18:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Or better yet, train up perfect refining, buy the raw ore newbies blindly drop in the market, refine it and sell it back refined.

Better ISK without the risk of a suicide gank.


I'm pretty sure there's a 15+ page thread on how compressed ore is more valuable than refining it, as well as refining the ore actually loses value.

As of a few days ago:

Shoogie wrote:

These prices pulled from Eve Central a few minutes ago. These are all Jita top buy prices. Obviously, prices will vary with time and the market you are actually in. Also, the prices for Kernite and Omber may be skewed somewhat. Those ores do not normally appear in Caldari space and someone who hauled them to Jita will expect to be paid for that work.

Minerals:
Tritanium: 5.25
Pyerite: 10.85
Mexallon: 57.70
Isogen: 124.00
Nocxium: 675.46

Raw Ores:
Veldspar: 18.19 (that is, 181.90 isk/m3)
Scordite: 31.62 (210.80 isk/m3)
Pyroxeres: 64.25 (214.17 isk/m3)
Plagioclase: 74.03 (211.51 isk/m3)
Omber: 80.04 (133.40 isk/m3)
Kernite: 260.48 (217.07 isk/m3)

Compressed Ores:
Compressed Veldspar: 2200.00
Compressed Scordite: 3500.00
Compressed Pyroxeres: 7599.99
Compressed Plagioclase: 9000.00
Compressed Omber: 9002.41
Compressed Kernite: 29578.35


Assuming perfect skills, implant, and 50% NPC station:

100 units of raw Veldspar could be sold for 1819.00 isk. Refining it turns it into 300.46 tritanium. (I kept the fraction because in reality you are going to refine your whole stack at once and not individual batches.) The value of the tritanium is 1577.42 isk. (13.3% loss) Compressing it increases the value to 2200 (20.9% profit)

100 Scordite = 3162.00 isk. Refined =250.504 trit, 125.252 pyer = 2674.13 isk (15.4% loss) Compressed = 3500.00 isk (10.6% profit)

100 Pyroxeres = 6425.00 isk. Refined = 254.124 trit, 18.1 pyer, 36.2 mex, 3.62 nocx = 6064.44 isk (5.6% loss) Compressed = 7599.99 isk (18.3% profit)

100 Plagioclase = 7403.00 isk. Refined = 77.468 trit, 154.212 pyer, 77.468 mex = 6549.81 isk (11.5% loss) Compressed = 9000.00 isk (21.6% profit)

100 Omber = 8004.00 isk. Refined = 61.54 trit, 24.616 pyer, 61.54 iso = 8221.13 isk (2.7% profit) Compressed = 9002.41 isk (12.5% profit)

100 Kernite = 26048.00 isk. Refined = 97.016 trit, 193.308 mex, 97.016 iso = 23693.19 isk (9.0% loss) Compressed = 29578.35 isk (13.6% profit)




I guess this is what I get for posting on a mining thread as someone who doesn't mine. Actually looking at the market myself, I was definitely wrong.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#79 - 2014-09-05 23:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Cidanel Afuran wrote:

I guess this is what I get for posting on a mining thread as someone who doesn't mine. Actually looking at the market myself, I was definitely wrong.

It's because of exactly what I (& others) predicted would happen and we got laughed at and told it never would.
Null Sec gets 20% more minerals out of the same amount of ore than Highsec (16% if we count a POS, but they have upkeep, an Outpost adds no upkeep to the already paid sov bill for the system).
Meaning Null Sec can quite simply strangle high sec by pricing them out of the market on ore.

However, there are still vast mineral stockpiles which account for most of the minerals currently on sale and more in the pool, which are now 'stuck' in highsec because Null doesn't want to take the loss (66% return btw, not 50% for Null also, unless I've gone crazy) compressing them via modules anymore. So those minerals suddenly have lower demand, only being of value to local producers, but will eventually run out, which will then result in a very sudden spike of mineral prices after the ore market has been strangled by Null for so long.

It's basic economics to predict these kind of effects, and it's also very basic economics to deal with things like ABC ores having a low value.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2014-09-05 23:59:33 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
It's because of exactly what I (& others) predicted would happen and we got laughed at and told it never would.
Null Sec gets 20% more minerals out of the same amount of ore than Highsec (16% if we count a POS, but they have upkeep, an Outpost adds no upkeep to the already paid sov bill for the system).
Meaning Null Sec can quite simply strangle high sec by pricing them out of the market on ore.

However, there are still vast mineral stockpiles which account for most of the minerals currently on sale and more in the pool, which are now 'stuck' in highsec because Null doesn't want to take the loss (66% return btw, not 50% for Null also, unless I've gone crazy) compressing them via modules anymore. So those minerals suddenly have lower demand, only being of value to local producers, but will eventually run out, which will then result in a very sudden spike of mineral prices after the ore market has been strangled by Null for so long.

It's basic economics to predict these kind of effects, and it's also very basic economics to deal with things like ABC ores having a low value.


How exactly would null sec "strangle high sec" with ore? If we refine ore in nullsec, we then have to pay the fuel cost (namely, a hauling service) to then move raw minerals to the market. That is extremely expensive and makes it not worthwhile.

Also, who/where has these mineral stockpiles? Minerals have almost always been too risky of an investment to stockpile in significant amounts.

ABC ores having a low value is because there is an enormous supply readily available in nullsec that severely outweighs the demand for zyd/mega. Items use lows>highs, while null anomalies are very heavy highs>lows. This is even shown in recent patches where CCP has added more lows to high end ore- but they need to reduce the high end ore m3 and add more low end ore.

Please don't suggest again that goons are "trying to make this a solo game"