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Crime & Punishment

 
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Rent in Aridia/Genesis/Solitude LS, Surely You're Joking (We're not)

First post
Author
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#41 - 2014-09-17 18:03:58 UTC
Tinu Moorhsum wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:


How does this work? Contact me (Seraph IX Basarab) in game or via Eve mail to negotiate a fair price. Afterward you'll join an in game channel with a list of other members to establish diplomatic ties. You can work together if you'd like or you can ignore one another.


I could see selling blue status but I can't follow selling space.

If I rent a house I get a key. That key lets *me* in AND keeps everyone else out.

How can you achieve something similar in an NPC station? If someone wants to move there then they just move. They don't need to pay anyone for that....

there IS no key....

T-


...but there is a baseball bat.

Well it is standings we're offering. And you do have a point. If you're a lone relic/data site runner that does an odd site here or there in your cheetah, you have a pretty good chance of getting away. If you just pop in once a month to do your PI in a cloaky hauler you have a pretty good chance of getting away. If that's the sort of activity you do then no, this program isn't for you and I advise against it.

On the other hand, if you're an industrial corp that wants to run mining ops for lowsec minerals or ice, if you want to put up towers for efficient production, or if you want to seed the market and compete with others by bringing in the goods that will sell, then yes you'll probably want our protection to do that.

Agent O'range wrote:
+1 to the idea, as long as SYJ doesn't get tired of not being able to shoot blues that look so tasty. It's always fun to blap someone's mission runner in lowsec. Maybe this will start a new niche in the game that hasn't been previously explored in-depth.


Well the funny thing is when I first started this program in Khanid, one of the motivator factors was to get the region more populated so that people would come and hunt the miners so that we could hunt the hunters.
Tareel Jax
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2014-09-18 15:07:14 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I would like to rent some lowsec space that provides zero benefits.



The benefits you get in lowsec correlates directly with your IQ level. In such case I cannot say this service is of much use to one such as yourself.


Apply cold water to burned area.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#43 - 2014-09-18 17:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tinu Moorhsum
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:



...but there is a baseball bat.

Well it is standings we're offering. And you do have a point. If you're a lone relic/data site runner that does an odd site here or there in your cheetah, you have a pretty good chance of getting away. If you just pop in once a month to do your PI in a cloaky hauler you have a pretty good chance of getting away. If that's the sort of activity you do then no, this program isn't for you and I advise against it.

On the other hand, if you're an industrial corp that wants to run mining ops for lowsec minerals or ice, if you want to put up towers for efficient production, or if you want to seed the market and compete with others by bringing in the goods that will sell, then yes you'll probably want our protection to do that.



Ahhhhh... now I get it. I guess euphemistically you can call it "selling blue status". Now I get it.

What you're looking for is miners and whatever to do their thing in your area and pay you for protection. That makes sense.

In the real world those are called "protection rackets". On the other hand, if an indy corp with no PVP experience wanted access to low-sec it might be well worth their while to look for "synergies".

Your manner of delivery needs some work, though. You shouldn't be talking about it in terms of selling space. Nullsec entities "sell" space too but they offer exclusive rights to dock in an outpost. The system is *literally* yours to do with as you please, but you are also required to defend it yourself to a point. SOV warfare is done by the "landlord" but they aren't going to come and save you if your mining op gets hot-dropped .... that's your problem.

What *you* are offering is very different. You're saying, "move in and we'll protect you". First, that's a big job. Protection in EVE is a 24/7 commitment and then you have the issue of what happens when you offer this service and someone comes in and ganks a fleet "under your protection" anyway. Even the biggest Nullsec entities don't put on that size of shoe. You might as well claim that you can stop the rain or reverse gravity. No matter what you do, you can never *guarantee* safety.

That said, what you're offering isn't at all unattractive. I think you *have* hit on a niche. I can well imagine an indy corp wanting access to low-sec and to be willing to pay for a "safe haven". But you're going to have to offer conditions.

For example.

1) Active protection in the form of X during mining ops, or other ops where vulnerable ships are on the field.
2) access to intel channels
3) access to safe POS's
4) access to logistics to/from high-sec
5) etc.... think about this.

Maybe you actually need to call it something like "safe haven", or "mostly safe haven", "safe enough haven" or "not entirely unsafe haven". The idea is to accurately convey what you are selling and what the buyer can expect.

See the difference?

T-
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#44 - 2014-09-18 18:51:10 UTC
You're partially right. When I ran the program in Khanid this summer, I found the particular wording of "protection" etc a bit clumsy. At best they couldn't identify with it, or worse, they assumed it was a scam. I use the term "rent" because even though in my opinion, it has a dirty connotation, it's still a term that people can identify with. So my goal was to explain what we do in as few words as possible, and then explain exactly what that entitles. There are pros and cons to it visavi "conventional renting" in 0.0.

Clients gain access to lowsec without having to spend their own time, effort, and resources to fight. So if you have a 20 man corp that produces and mines, you can use that human capital to do what you do best, produce, while leaving the violence making to people that do that as their trade. Both specialize in what they do best and both share the benefits of the other's contribution.

As for the ability to protect, it isn't as if we have "protection ops" that we go on. The protection occurs naturally by simply living among us. We're like a lion that agrees not to slaughter the bison and allow it to live among us. We don't go and cover the bison from the cheetah, we simply have the bison live among us and thus the cheetah doesn't bother it.

I don't claim that we'll protect clients every waking moment and I tell them that they are responsible for their daily safety and should rely on their own intelligence to make good decisions. But in any case, you'll have a lot more of a response force from us than you would in 0.0 where your patron lives regions and regions away.

Lastly my goal is to change the attitude of this sort of agreement. Out in 0.0, and I speak here as someone that has explored renting in all 0.0 alliances from BoT to Greater Western, you are treated like a lower caste. You are garbage, shut up do what you are told and if you refuse, leave, we'll have someone to replace you tomorrow. On the other hand the relationship dynamic for me is to bring people in as partners. My goal is to have people be comfortable and feel good about living with us. It's both ethical and profitable.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#45 - 2014-09-21 13:40:54 UTC
I absolutely love this. Wanted: Seals to pay to be shark bait so we can have moar targets. It's like Wild Kingdom meets Jackass. This is so inspiring I may re-activate my pvp account to see if you're recruiting.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#46 - 2014-09-23 21:46:07 UTC
Hopefully it plays out like that. But at the very least I'm just pleased to provide some industrialists and up and coming lowsec corps a chance to have some breathing room and get their footing.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#47 - 2014-10-04 02:05:42 UTC
October update out. TLDR We're protecting entrepreneur projects in areas of Aridia and Solitude along with Genesis.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-10-05 17:59:37 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
October update out. TLDR We're protecting entrepreneur projects in areas of Aridia and Solitude along with Genesis.


How much ISK to live in Genesis?

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#49 - 2014-10-09 21:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph IX Basarab
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
October update out. TLDR We're protecting entrepreneur projects in areas of Aridia and Solitude along with Genesis.


How much ISK to live in Genesis?



For some old friends? Just a dread or two here and there: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=25497836
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2014-10-11 07:33:32 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
October update out. TLDR We're protecting entrepreneur projects in areas of Aridia and Solitude along with Genesis.


How much ISK to live in Genesis?



For some old friends? Just a dread or two here and there: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=25497836


It's too bad that our rent pales in comparison to yours.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#51 - 2014-10-11 19:00:12 UTC
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-10-12 05:53:15 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.


Neither is Surely You're a Punchingbag.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-10-12 06:01:54 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.


Neither is Surely You're a Punchingbag.


rekt

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Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#54 - 2014-10-12 21:17:23 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.


Neither is Surely You're a Punchingbag.



Tishu deserves it after losing their cap fleet a week ago.

But I still have to ask myself, what any of this has to do with any of you. Lol
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-10-12 22:21:47 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.


Neither is Surely You're a Punchingbag.



Tishu deserves it after losing their cap fleet a week ago.

But I still have to ask myself, what any of this has to do with any of you. Lol


Not a thing. I just like making fun of alliances who are failcascading.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#56 - 2014-10-12 23:28:04 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Yes Lugia, we're aware that some entities in this game are relevant. However you are not one of them.

Shh.


Neither is Surely You're a Punchingbag.



Tishu deserves it after losing their cap fleet a week ago.

But I still have to ask myself, what any of this has to do with any of you. Lol


Not a thing. I just like making fun of alliances who are failcascading.


Please do your self flagellation on your own time. This is not the place for it.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-10-12 23:47:28 UTC
Confirming batphoning someone else to drop a fleet means you are good.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-10-13 07:35:03 UTC
How'd that tishu spank feel
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#59 - 2014-10-13 19:55:37 UTC
Michele Bachmann wrote:
How'd that tishu spank feel




Withlogilike this , who needs enemies? Ugh Kitchen sink vs cta fleet on their turf, with supers on stand by, what can be said.
Michele Bachmann
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-10-13 21:12:44 UTC
Dude all you need is like 3-5 hics and you're golden. No dishonorable batphone required