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CCP Rise... can we get new capital ships?

Author
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#21 - 2014-08-26 15:10:15 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:

My point was that the Phoenix always tends to need a bit more support (more webs, more painters) than the other dreads to capitalize on it's full damage potential. (Pun intended.) Whether that support is local or not is irrelevant.


But you do get more tank for your gank than the other dreads when you get the support you need, so hardly a bad trade...
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#22 - 2014-08-26 15:19:27 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
But you do get more tank for your gank than the other dreads when you get the support you need, so hardly a bad trade...

Agreed. The Tank/Gank ratio for a Phoenix is rather nice, and somewhat offsets the horrible damage application of capital missiles. But it still doesn't change the fact that Phoenixes need more support. I think most people would be perfectly fine with a more tanky, less ganky Phoenix that could do it's full damage potential (even if it's less than a Moros) with the same amount of support as other dreads.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#23 - 2014-08-26 17:16:58 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
AskariRising wrote:
carriers and dreadnoughts are great, but dreadnoughts are only good against titans or structures and carries require training a completely new weapon system.

Ive used missile based ships always, and i'd like to train for a capital ship but i dont see much in the way of options. the caldari dreadnought isnt a general use combat ship and sucks (or so im told) in anti capital warfare.

any chance we could get some capital ships that are as effective as carriers in combat but arnt logistics or seige based?

i really dont want to train for drones


We don't need more OP ships.
Let CCP focus on broken carriers, motherships and Titans.


Really its only titans and power projection that is still broken.
Supercarriers lose tank to fit DPS but in turn now have a fighting chance to peel of tackle with fighters thanks to the recent changes. The shield supers are even more viable now than they were prior to the change since they dont have to sacrifice tank for DPS, instead they can sacrifice tank for utility mods like painters or Omni's which the armor caps dont have to worry about.

Carriers themeslves are balanced because triage is great, but alone solo triage your very easy to kill. and even when you get into 200 man pantheon / slowcat setups they can still die despite the RR to alpha. ( takes about 12-18 Swaglfars with artillery to volley one into DEEEP structure. and while fighters may be giving the carriers 1.2 - 2.2k DPS the fighters can still be firewalled or otherwise killed to gimp DPS.

Now titans are broken because what they were meant to be just never happened, and im not a titan pilot myself so i have No idea how to fix them.

After that its just power projection, because right now a super fleet can traverse new eden in 10 minutes to back someone up. My idea would be jump drive cooldown timers that cannot be reset by docking, about 5-8 minutes which means you have to jump in, cap up, and either dock the whole fleet or regroup and protect your supers while you wait for the next jump. Sure for solo carriers that use them for logistics and ship moving its a pain in the di*k to wait another 20 minutes to go 3 jumps to market for new ships but in the long run i dont see much else working.

You can spike fuel costs but that just slams the little guy whou now has to buy even more expensive fuel while major blocks just dump ISK on it like pocket change.

You could make them go through gates, but then you have caps in highsec where they dont belong. ( imagine war targets with nuetral triage or anti-freighter blap dreads on station ) so thats out

You could give cynos a spool up time, but this just makes low sec impossible since people are going to pop your cyno long before it charges which hurts the low sec alliances and jump freighter pilots more than helps null.

So I really don't see another viable option here, unless im still thinking inside the box.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Sigras
Conglomo
#24 - 2014-08-26 17:34:46 UTC
AskariRising wrote:
Sigras wrote:
AskariRising wrote:
I didn't know I had asked for an OP ship. I thought I was asking for a logical progression from battleships that didn't require training a complete different weapon system. My bad.

If your question was "can I have a missile capital ship?" the answer is the phoenix. It works fine. It could do with a small damage buff, but really what needs to happen is a moros range nerf more than anything. Also, now that supercarriers actually have to use their low slots for damage you might actually see a shield cap fleet become a thing.

If your question was "can I have a missile capital ship that is good against sub caps?" the answer is rightly heck no.
As soon as cap fleets have a ship that is good against sub caps, no major alliance will ever bring anything else...
Why would you when a cap fleet travels faster, hits harder, dies slower AND is effective against sub caps?

my question is the phoenix good against other capital ships under "general" combat conditions?

my understanding was that it, and all other dreadnoughts, were for attacking structures.

i thought carriers were for killing dreadnoughts and other carriers, and titans. if thats the case, i want an alternative to a carrier, because i didnt train for a drone ship.

when you say the phoenix works fine. define fine. all ive understood is that its the worst dreadnought and that its too niche. i want a general purpose combat ship.

I dont understand going from kestrel, to corax, caracal, drake, raven, to finally.... carrier drone boat for combat.

OK, the phoenix does full damage against all dreads in siege (unless theyre running a halo set instead of a crystal/slave set for some reason or using a strong x-instinct booster instead of a blue pill/exile booster with a perfect ragnarok in system), and always does full damage to all supercaps.

The two things that the phoenix doesnt do as well as other dreads is shoot at unwebbed un-painted carriers who are being bonused by a Ragnarok, and blapping subcaps.

IMHO the blap-ability should be removed from the other dreads not added to the phoenix. Also, the phoenix does a lot of fully selectable damage type damage if you do have web/painting support. The tank/gank cannot be matched by any other dread.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#25 - 2014-08-26 17:41:22 UTC
Sigras wrote:
AskariRising wrote:
Sigras wrote:
AskariRising wrote:
I didn't know I had asked for an OP ship. I thought I was asking for a logical progression from battleships that didn't require training a complete different weapon system. My bad.

If your question was "can I have a missile capital ship?" the answer is the phoenix. It works fine. It could do with a small damage buff, but really what needs to happen is a moros range nerf more than anything. Also, now that supercarriers actually have to use their low slots for damage you might actually see a shield cap fleet become a thing.

If your question was "can I have a missile capital ship that is good against sub caps?" the answer is rightly heck no.
As soon as cap fleets have a ship that is good against sub caps, no major alliance will ever bring anything else...
Why would you when a cap fleet travels faster, hits harder, dies slower AND is effective against sub caps?

my question is the phoenix good against other capital ships under "general" combat conditions?

my understanding was that it, and all other dreadnoughts, were for attacking structures.

i thought carriers were for killing dreadnoughts and other carriers, and titans. if thats the case, i want an alternative to a carrier, because i didnt train for a drone ship.

when you say the phoenix works fine. define fine. all ive understood is that its the worst dreadnought and that its too niche. i want a general purpose combat ship.

I dont understand going from kestrel, to corax, caracal, drake, raven, to finally.... carrier drone boat for combat.

OK, the phoenix does full damage against all dreads in siege (unless theyre running a halo set instead of a crystal/slave set for some reason or using a strong x-instinct booster instead of a blue pill/exile booster with a perfect ragnarok in system), and always does full damage to all supercaps.

The two things that the phoenix doesnt do as well as other dreads is shoot at unwebbed un-painted carriers who are being bonused by a Ragnarok, and blapping subcaps.

IMHO the blap-ability should be removed from the other dreads not added to the phoenix. Also, the phoenix does a lot of fully selectable damage type damage if you do have web/painting support. The tank/gank cannot be matched by any other dread.



The blap mechanic is just high tracking, which gives up tank or DPS to fit that way a normal Anti-cap dread cant hit subcaps well at all even if theyre webbed because of the tracking, the second the phoenix fires if your in range and not about to outrun the missiles your getting hit every time. If you get webbed or painted it gets even worse i was on the test server in a navy scorpion with links and crystals, and i had almost 90% resists across the board cold. I got shot once while moving by a phoenix in siege and it dropped 72% of my shields instantly.

Now with 2 ASB's it wasnt hard to rep back up but just as i did it fired again and once more i was in low shields and now had subcaps landing on me for DPS too. I died but i never once was painted or webbed, i was always moving and had an AB on as well. Which goes to show just how powerfull the phoenix can be

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

afkboss
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-08-26 17:49:00 UTC
I would like the revelation more if they changed the cap usage bonus to a resist bonus and fixed the actual cap usage.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#27 - 2014-08-26 17:52:04 UTC
afkboss wrote:
I would like the revelation more if they changed the cap usage bonus to a resist bonus and fixed the actual cap usage.

That would actually be in-line with Amarr and Caldari ships getting resist bonuses. I like this idea.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Shock Beer
Never Not AFK
#28 - 2014-08-27 03:35:36 UTC
afkboss wrote:
I would like the revelation more if they changed the cap usage bonus to a resist bonus and fixed the actual cap usage.


This would actually give the rev a niche instead of just being worse than the other turret dreads at everything. Even if it is only to die slightly slower. Pretty sure i have read somewhere that the Devs hate the -ve cap usage bonus anyway.
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