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Are large POS turrets VERY underpowered ?
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Prince Kobol
#21 - 2014-08-25 17:29:04 UTC
PoS guns are under powered across the range.

I've taken out well defended PoS in HS using nothing more then 5 domi's + sentries and a couple of logi's.

As for low / null sec, there is zero point putting any kind of defences up as a small group of dreads will obliterate them, just a waste of isk and time.

As another posted as stated, ECM and Shield resists are much more effective as they are a lot more annoying.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#22 - 2014-08-25 17:41:10 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
When setting up a large tower I don't worry too much about the guns. Some medium and small. I get the shield resists up as high as possible and then put up as many ECM battery s as I can.

If attacked any POS is going down, what I aim for is to make that process as long and painful as possible and hopefully people will overlook my POS in favor of another less well defended tower.

Up to now it's worked as none of my towers I've owned in the past have been attacked.

Given the state of POS guns, the order of prioritization in my mind is:

1. Tower.
2. What you're doing with said tower. (Labs, moon harvesting, factories, etc.)
3. Resists.
4. ECM.
5. Scrams/webs/damps.
6. Guns.

Leaving any resist at zero is all but begging someone to come shoot you. Frustrating your attackers is, at the moment, more effective than killing them, but I do like to include some tackle and guns because, hey, you never know when a WT pilot in a faction-fit cloaky will forget to cloak while scouting you.... ;^)

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-08-25 20:09:20 UTC
Large POS turrets are really meant to do damage to capital ships.
And believe it or not, all of a POS's large guns working in concert can actually put the hurt on. Saw a Naglfar go into low armor because he wasn't paying attention. Luckily he wasn't in siege at the time.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-08-25 21:13:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Large POS turrets are really meant to do damage to capital ships.
And believe it or not, all of a POS's large guns working in concert can actually put the hurt on. Saw a Naglfar go into low armor because he wasn't paying attention. Luckily he wasn't in siege at the time.

I managed to warp off in 5% structure when I forgot to refit my blap dread on a tower with large guns. That chair will never be the same.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#25 - 2014-08-25 21:37:58 UTC
pos guns without someone controlling them suck.

In general if theay want your tower to die, its gonna die.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#26 - 2014-08-25 22:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Bronson Hughes wrote:

2. POS guns are mis-labelled. Small POS guns are cruiser-sized weapons, Medium POS guns are battleship-sized weapons, and Large POS guns are capital-sized weapons. This means that there are no anti-frigate guns (just cruiser guns and webs) and that Large POS guns are pretty much worthless in hisec because you'll never see a target big enough for them to effectively hit.

3. You say that your battery has a signature resolution of 400m, but I would bet money that this is a typo and is actually 1000m like other large turrets. Still, this doesn't explain why you are having such a hard time hitting a stationary battleship within your battery's optimal range. I'm kind of at a loss here.


Faction pos guns have a sig res one class lower than regular pos guns though.

iirc Domi large can do about 10k alpha each, track battleships no problem, and with pos gunners so common now after the skill changes .....
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#27 - 2014-08-25 22:38:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P

What about POS bomb launcher arrays :)
That'd defend against fleets without being overkill against single targets.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#28 - 2014-08-25 23:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
I just tested it on test server,

Navy Apoc 82% EM/ 87%Therm vs Dark Blood tower with all Large Beams and it was thumping the daylights out of me.

At 100 km, 600-1200 with wrecking hits in the 3600 range.
At 200km it was dropping far more 1200 with 10% or so going in to the 3500+ range.


- Setting up now for a Rails test
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-08-26 00:04:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P


Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2014-08-26 00:31:38 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P


Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.


Still not as many as when you get a small highsec pvp tower bashing corp land on a Dickstar.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-08-26 00:48:19 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
Terminator Cindy wrote:
OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret.

Eugene Kerner wrote:
Falloff, ...yada,yada....


At optimal range, it was my understanding that the falloff effect should be minimum.

Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Seems a little light on the details. Which one of the multiple large shadow railguns you had, what ship you had, what fit the ship had, what skills does the pilot have, what was the damage you did and so forth. The more details you provide the easier it will be for outsiders to spot the likely cause for the reported result.


There is only one type of shadow large railgun battery. The battleship had 80-81% armor tanking against the damage types delivered by the plutonium ammo.

Baneken wrote:
And then we still have the random dice roll for wrecking and so forth, so actual dps encountered may actually be lower then average.


On all tests the average of dps was much lower than expected. I mean, should it be possible for a regular battleship to solo tank 3 large faction pos turrets at optimum range ?!




......BAHAHAHAHA

yes.

what, the X-large ammo didn't tip you off? Large POS guns are for CAPS.

Medum POS guns are anti-BS


Please ignorant the fool making an idiot of himself, faction guns are designed to be effective against one size smaller of targets, thus, large faction guns are anti-battleship.

As for the damage, pos guns are balanced around an era where forces attacking towers were a fraction of what they are now, and are generally just for show/to discourage random drivebys. CCP has mentioned intent to rebalance them, but going by their intent to fix pos's as a whole, that could be many years away. Shadow railguns don't do that much damage in the first place I believe.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#32 - 2014-08-26 02:47:15 UTC
Meh. Forget the guns. It's a frakkin space station already. Let's just have it launch 250 fighter bombers to rain hellfire down on the adversaries.

During quiet times, it can puke out 250 autonomous skiffs and mine out the system it's in too.

go go gadget rum and cokes. Blink

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#33 - 2014-08-26 02:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Ocih wrote:
I just tested it on test server,

Navy Apoc 82% EM/ 87%Therm vs Dark Blood tower with all Large Beams and it was thumping the daylights out of me.

At 100 km, 600-1200 with wrecking hits in the 3600 range.
At 200km it was dropping far more 1200 with 10% or so going in to the 3500+ range.


- Setting up now for a Rails test



Went in with a single Revelation and the POS loses hands down, no contest.

Dark Blood POS, 12X Dark Blood Large Beam Laser Battery/ Dark Blood Multifrequency XL with Amarr space bonus, at Optimal for the POS, wreck for 1200 hit generic for 300 or so. (this set up is a stupid set up but is the absolute damage a POS can deliver - 13 Large Beam is the PG max for a Large Dark POS)

The Revelation with a single Armor rep is good for 21,000 repair per minute, 42,000 in siege with no bonus and base skills.

short version, a Large Faction POS with all Faction Mods is incapable of repelling a single Dreadnaught through brute force, on its own.
On the side of the POS, killing it with a single dreadnaught would be a down time to down time marathon.
GreenSeed
#34 - 2014-08-26 03:15:40 UTC
Terminator Cindy wrote:
We have a faction large POS turret ( shadow large railgun ) with plutonium; theoretically optimal range should be around 200km. Still, when testing it against a non-moving battleship at that range, the damage is REALLY small. The sig resolution for that faction gun is about the size of the battleship, so it should deliver full damage. Anything we are doing wrong ?


your problem is shooting at Battleships. medium POS guns are battleship sized, Large POS guns are XL. large POS guns are to force dreads to cycle their siege and hit the POS in pairs.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2014-08-26 03:32:19 UTC
Large guns are technically XL guns, and are made for murdering capitals.

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Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-08-26 04:23:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P


Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.


Still not as many as when you get a small highsec pvp tower bashing corp land on a Dickstar.


What's that? I'm too afraid of googling dickstar at work. Might get me into R18-tier trouble.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-08-26 04:33:28 UTC
Terminator Cindy wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Terminator Cindy wrote:
OK my mistake, i should have specified more clearly that i am talking about a POS turret.
That makes quite a difference…

Sig radius 2,000m
Tracking speed 0.00154 rad/s.

Against a battleship-sized target, the effective tracking is 0.000308 rad/s — even at optimal range (180ish km), the ship only has to move at 60m/s to outtrack the poor thing.


Sig resolution 400. sig radius for a BS around 400 also

http://eve.battleclinic.com/calculators.php#tracking

at 60 m/s it is 51.81 chance to hit.

Doesnt matter - in our tests always hits and the BS does not move. It just hits with a VERY small amount of damage.


Resists
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-08-26 04:38:22 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P


Imagine the tears when someone resets password while fleet is in warp to pos and then awoxs the whole lot of them as they hit pos shields.


"We've got to be able to get some kind of a reading on that shield, up
or down. Well, how could they be jamming us if they don't know if we're coming."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2014-08-26 04:57:24 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What we need is obviously POS smartbombs. P

What about POS bomb launcher arrays :)
That'd defend against fleets without being overkill against single targets.

The problem with bombs is that they actually take direction of travel into consideration and as we all know, an immobile structure in EVE has no direction so the bombs would launch completely at random.

I approve. Twisted
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#40 - 2014-08-26 06:16:04 UTC
Railguns suck. Don't use them.

Blasters suck. Don't use them.

Missiles suck. Don't use them.


Understanding POS Guns
Caldari Tower: what is the actual net effect of the ECM "cycling speed" bonus.
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