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Serpentis Pirate ships falling behind more and more?
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Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#41 - 2014-08-25 10:08:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Melina Saraki wrote:
- 900% less range with equal dps
So… what… it shoots backwards at 8× the range?! Ugh
How does that even work? How does it determine what gets hit? And how on earth does it manage to go 880km when range is capped at 250? Aaaaaaaah!


Must be like Aharm with their negative tracking "infinite" gun.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#42 - 2014-08-25 10:12:59 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
If this game was supposed to be balanced around honour 1v1s then Fozzie and Rise are doing a really bad job.

Also

*warps in with an ishtar, deploys drones and blaps the falcon*

Welcome to ishtar online.


They're not doing a good job at all. There are less viable fleet doctrines now than when they started tiercide. They've made whole classes irrelevant.


Maybe on blob scale there is less viable doctrines. But things gets a bit gimmicki at that point.

However for small scale fights I see plenty of more ships than before. T1 cruisers actually became viable and there is a better balance between the 4 main factions rather than just minmatar dominance. Sadly, BCs and BSs have suffered way too much so we don't see them that often anymore.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-08-25 10:28:47 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
If this game was supposed to be balanced around honour 1v1s then Fozzie and Rise are doing a really bad job.

Also

*warps in with an ishtar, deploys drones and blaps the falcon*

Welcome to ishtar online.


They're not doing a good job at all. There are less viable fleet doctrines now than when they started tiercide. They've made whole classes irrelevant.


Maybe on blob scale there is less viable doctrines. But things gets a bit gimmicki at that point.

However for small scale fights I see plenty of more ships than before. T1 cruisers actually became viable and there is a better balance between the 4 main factions rather than just minmatar dominance. Sadly, BCs and BSs have suffered way too much so we don't see them that often anymore.


We actually scared a pack of Ishtars quite badly with an equal sized pack of hurricanes with MJD, perfectly aimed jump and had most of the tars scrammed + webbed with angry autocannons at their optimals.
Anthar Thebess
#44 - 2014-08-25 10:33:41 UTC
Well at least they are useful.
Like some people stated sometimes is not about DPS but about function.

Look at the Sansha Ships.
They got nice boost to AB, but this didn't changed any thing.

Why,
Fit sansha cruiser or frigate , and compare them to other faction ships in their class.

Even with the AB bonus they are simply bad, they don't bring any extra function to the fleet, and all FC say :
"Phantasm? Change to something more useful"

Serpentis ships are nice because web bonus .

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Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-08-25 12:00:10 UTC
Melina Saraki wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Melina Saraki wrote:

The rattle fits 1-2 target painters, and here we are.

Unbonused, also note how many Pirate ships use Gallente skills. Then note how many each other race has. Then look at your complaint. And possibly think again.


Again, i wasn't talking about the fleet aspect, just about the fact that if you throw a vindi against e.g. a rattle, that the vindi has no chance of winning that fight at all. None. Not at 2km range and not at 80km range. Same goes for the Vigilant and comparable ships.


Perhaps you didn't watch the Alliance Tournement yesterday? I saw a VIndi metal a Rattlesnake. The Vindi flew over unmolested and commenced a beat down.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-08-25 13:01:25 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
If this game was supposed to be balanced around honour 1v1s then Fozzie and Rise are doing a really bad job.

Also

*warps in with an ishtar, deploys drones and blaps the falcon*

Welcome to ishtar online.


They're not doing a good job at all. There are less viable fleet doctrines now than when they started tiercide. They've made whole classes irrelevant.


Maybe on blob scale there is less viable doctrines. But things gets a bit gimmicki at that point.

However for small scale fights I see plenty of more ships than before. T1 cruisers actually became viable and there is a better balance between the 4 main factions rather than just minmatar dominance. Sadly, BCs and BSs have suffered way too much so we don't see them that often anymore.


We actually scared a pack of Ishtars quite badly with an equal sized pack of hurricanes with MJD, perfectly aimed jump and had most of the tars scrammed + webbed with angry autocannons at their optimals.

I been founding that an AC wolf geared for anti-drone work can do a nice job too.

Haven't had the chance to test it against sentry ishtars yet tho, but, while a dirty job and drones don't give kmails ( Sad ), your gangmates will appreciate the dps decrease you provide.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#47 - 2014-08-25 13:07:24 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
If this game was supposed to be balanced around honour 1v1s then Fozzie and Rise are doing a really bad job.

Also

*warps in with an ishtar, deploys drones and blaps the falcon*

Welcome to ishtar online.


They're not doing a good job at all. There are less viable fleet doctrines now than when they started tiercide. They've made whole classes irrelevant.


Maybe on blob scale there is less viable doctrines. But things gets a bit gimmicki at that point.

However for small scale fights I see plenty of more ships than before. T1 cruisers actually became viable and there is a better balance between the 4 main factions rather than just minmatar dominance. Sadly, BCs and BSs have suffered way too much so we don't see them that often anymore.


We actually scared a pack of Ishtars quite badly with an equal sized pack of hurricanes with MJD, perfectly aimed jump and had most of the tars scrammed + webbed with angry autocannons at their optimals.


The MJD is definitely a great addition to battle cruisers. I remember someone being fairly successful with MJD drakes as well.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Notorious Fellon
#48 - 2014-08-25 14:23:31 UTC
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
CCP Rise has no clue about balance.

Period.

It doesn't go any further than that. He's failed to address some long standing issues and seems to have based his own balancing actions on intuition and feeling vs graphs and logic.


I agree. He is horrible. He destroyed a playstyle on the Rattlesnake that was unique to ships in EVE. A passive shield-tanked torpedo fit that primarily used the optimal light and medium drone types and sometimes Warden IIs. Now torpedoes are no longer viable in most missions due to loss of missile velocity bonus and a -225m3 reduction in drone bay space means I can't carry the optimal medium or light drone type I want to use.

You can use a Gecko now to replace the loss of medium drones but its a heavy micromanagement burden since you can only lock 7 targets on a RS and have to lock each frigate and cruiser individually and then command the gecko on each individual target you want them to die before Battleships because the heavy drone AI on the gecko makes it always prioritize Battleships first, and usually the trigger. Gecko also does a terrible job at replacing bonused light drones.




Mission Bot Farmer detected.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-08-25 14:56:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Melina Saraki wrote:
- 900% less range with equal dps
So… what… it shoots backwards at 8× the range?! Ugh
How does that even work? How does it determine what gets hit? And how on earth does it manage to go 880km when range is capped at 250? Aaaaaaaah!


Who cares really? Just spin that ship around and shoot. We'll figure it out later.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2014-08-25 15:42:55 UTC
The serpentis thave the most powerful bonus of all combat vessels.

Complainign of vigilant nerf? Check the ashimmu. The ashimu was MASSIVELy nerfed by movign 1 high to 1 low (that you basically cannto fit on any reasonable way) and the MASSIVE nerf of chanign web strenght to a MODERATE web range bonus (if the web range bonus was 30% per level then would be remotely fair)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#51 - 2014-08-25 16:08:25 UTC
Cap ITal wrote:
the op is correct. we can dance about this ins and outs of the subject but in the end he is right. serp ships are underpowered.
they all need 1 of three things.
either a huge boost to tank or a huge boost to damage. or a bonus to web range that gets those awesome webs out to like 25km on a t2 webs.


25-30 km Web range on a battleship makes them a real threat. That one has been asked for in the past. Hull to hull, there is a flat line in tanks on all the races. Speed tanking is in every case a double tank. Add in Sig rad differences and it's a triple tank. A battleship fighting a cruiser has too many layers of defense to mitigate, it's why they have come to 'suck'. That's not so much an issue with Serp ships, it's an issue with any Battleship that was not designed to chase down an enemy.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#52 - 2014-08-25 17:59:32 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:
[quote=Ninteen Seventy-Nine]Massive amounts of butthurt



The balance passes have been awesome so far. Your ship got changed oh no. Its still incredibly powerful as proved by the alliance tournament.


They now have aalthough slightly overpowered bonus but its interesting and sets the ship apart from other drone boats.


IMO this is BS. Tiericide was/is a failure to the extent it was meant to achieve "balance." All it did was create new flavors of the month. Worse, by imposing "roles" on everything they stuck a stick in the eye of the sandbox by limiting player choice. Versatility is no longer valued in favor of predictability. Chasing balance is a pointless and thankless enterprise that can never be achieved. Its an endless cycle where CCP always starts with good intentions but just creates new imbalances. All in all, IMO, it would be better to strip the roles off of ships and make their fittings more flexible leaving balance issues to the players and the sandbox.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-08-25 21:16:29 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
If this game was supposed to be balanced around honour 1v1s then Fozzie and Rise are doing a really bad job.

Also

*warps in with an ishtar, deploys drones and blaps the falcon*

Welcome to ishtar online.


They're not doing a good job at all. There are less viable fleet doctrines now than when they started tiercide. They've made whole classes irrelevant.


Maybe on blob scale there is less viable doctrines. But things gets a bit gimmicki at that point.

However for small scale fights I see plenty of more ships than before. T1 cruisers actually became viable and there is a better balance between the 4 main factions rather than just minmatar dominance. Sadly, BCs and BSs have suffered way too much so we don't see them that often anymore.


I just don't see BCs at all any more but BSs are used but only 2 of them plus a few gimmick fleets. At the 50 to 100 size fleets the number of doctrines is alarmingly small unless you're prepared to run faction based fleets. Invariably you'll be facing ishtars so that is shaping the current meta. It won't change after this patch either.
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