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CCP obviously has too many subscribers
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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#41 - 2011-11-23 14:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
WoW is General Motors.
Eve is AM General

You're not going to get far expecting AM general to make a sports coupe, even if market research suggests better sales than a Hummer.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Psychophantic
#42 - 2011-11-23 14:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychophantic
Khanh'rhh wrote:
WoW is General Motors.
Eve is AM General

You're not going to get far expecting AM general to make a sports coupe, even if market research suggests better sales than a Hummer.


Maybe they should have...

AM General to lay off 350 and cut production of Hummers.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9Q2ERN83.htm

And whats this? Diversification?

"The layoffs announcement comes just eight days after AM General held a news conference to announce it had begun making wheelchair-accessible cars in the plant where it formerly made H2 Hummers"
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-11-23 15:12:41 UTC
Takseen wrote:
They did add Incursions, that's pretty big for the mission running crowd. And they're putting in more exploration sites and buffing existing ones for Crucible. Mining could use a bit more attention.


B-b-but Incursions require me to interact with other humans. Cry
Lexmana
#44 - 2011-11-23 15:25:16 UTC
Psychophantic wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
WoW is General Motors.
Eve is AM General

You're not going to get far expecting AM general to make a sports coupe, even if market research suggests better sales than a Hummer.


Maybe they should have...

AM General to lay off 350 and cut production of Hummers.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9Q2ERN83.htm

And whats this? Diversification?

"The layoffs announcement comes just eight days after AM General held a news conference to announce it had begun making wheelchair-accessible cars in the plant where it formerly made H2 Hummers"


Nothing wrong with cutting down production on a product that doesn't sell and develop a second one to compliment. Much better than trying to make, lets say, the Hummer into a wheelchair-accessible sports coupé.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#45 - 2011-11-23 15:53:57 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
WoW is General Motors.
Eve is AM General

You're not going to get far expecting AM general to make a sports coupe, even if market research suggests better sales than a Hummer.


Maybe they should have...

AM General to lay off 350 and cut production of Hummers.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9Q2ERN83.htm

And whats this? Diversification?

"The layoffs announcement comes just eight days after AM General held a news conference to announce it had begun making wheelchair-accessible cars in the plant where it formerly made H2 Hummers"


Nothing wrong with cutting down production on a product that doesn't sell and develop a second one to compliment. Much better than trying to make, lets say, the Hummer into a wheelchair-accessible sports coupé.


... which of course inevitably leads us to DUST. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#46 - 2011-11-23 16:10:09 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
[quote=DeBingJos][quote=David Grogan] i make my isk running incursions & PI.

there is no big reward for mining.... certainly more risk for mining but crap all reward for it.


so you pay a monthly fee to collect digital money with no value outside of eve and this is what you call entertainment?

mining is not rewarding

Have you ever seen a coal mining tycoon?
probably not, they don't exist
miners typically make enough to feed their family, and pay the mortgage and car payments
and as recent history has proven, they have a pretty decent chance to die in the mine
or years later from black lung

so what the **** makes you think that you should be able to sit there 100% safe and amass a fortune while the people who actually make eve interesting scrape for every penny?

mining is horribly lopsided and should be further nerfed
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#47 - 2011-11-24 09:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Imryn Xaran
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Imryn Xaran wrote:
Your original metaphor is flawed: car manufacturers do not sell cars, they sell ranges of cars. CCP isn't the "sports coupe" its General Motors. It might use the flashy "sports coupe" to lure people in through the door but you can bet that they are selling heaps more 5 door hatchbacks and people carriers than coupes.

Dropping the (flawed and also crap) metaphor, CCP has just one product to sell so it is in their best interests to make it appealing to as broad a market segment as the can, so miners and missioners need love just as much as pvpers and gankers.

Once again, I'm no car person, but what about companies like Lotus, Pagani, Saleen, et cetera? Sure, you can say that all car manufacturers sell ranges of cars, but there is a whole bunch of non-megacorporate small-scale builders who cater to specific customer demographics, such as the sports coupe demographic in my example.

Does every car manufacturer need to be on the scale of Toyota, GM, Ford, Hyundai, and so on? Is CCP obligated to reach the scale of, say, Blizzard? Why? Why can't CCP focus on a more specialized product that appeals to a narrower range of customers? Why does CCP need to move away from their original image of EVE Online, a "cold, harsh universe," to something that's family-friendly and able to cater to people who seek a passive, single-player experience?

You said CCP is like General Motors? How? How many different products does CCP offer? What is CCP's MMO market capitalization?


Sure there are car manufacturers who only market a limited number of high end cars, but they all have one thing in common - they charge a crap-ton of money for their cars.

Dropping (again, and hopefully for the final time) the crap car metaphor, CCP has one product to market to the gaming community. If they focus exclusively on one segment of that market they will inevitably find that their product only appeals to that one segment. This means that they would be limiting their pool of potential subscribers.

CCP are not in business to stand still, they want to grow their company. We have seen what happens when they tried to diversify their product range, and that didn't work out so well. The remaining options are:

1. Focus on one aspect of EVE game-play, limit the numbers of potential subscribers and increase fees to compensate.
2. Support all aspects of EVE game-play, maximise the number of potential subscribers and maintain current fees

If they take option one I predict that subscription levels will decline as the "carebears" get fed up and leave. They will be followed out the door by the gankers and scammers who prey on them, leaving the pvpers. This might sound great to may people, but remember that at this point subscriptions have halved and CCP is laying staff off in droves. In no time at all CCP are back to working out of Hilmars garage.

To answer your specific questions:

Does every car manufacturer need to be on the scale of Toyota, GM, Ford, Hyundai, and so on? No, but the ones that fill niche markets have to charge more for their products.

Is CCP obligated to reach the scale of, say, Blizzard? No, but we have seen that CCP have a strong desire to grow as a company.

Why? Why can't CCP focus on a more specialized product that appeals to a narrower range of customers? Because EVE is not a specialised product. The game you want to be playing has all of the non-combat elements removed - essentially one huge RvB game. Of course, all the same costs are still there for CCP; they just have half as many subscribers now so subs have to double.

Why does CCP need to move away from their original image of EVE Online, a "cold, harsh universe," to something that's family-friendly and able to cater to people who seek a passive, single-player experience? They don't. Improving the PvE experience in EVE does not change the cold harsh universe in any way. Mission runners and miners can still be ganked - It just might give them a more enjoyable experience between gankings.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#48 - 2011-11-24 09:27:48 UTC
Albert Threestone wrote:
Just an observation from my side. I came back after a 2 year break.

A lot that was annoying me got better. Some incredible stuff was added. After seeing the toon editor, a lot of the other mmo just look plain uggly. And even though there is absolutely no game play improvement it still is a great technical achievement.

Than I checked my buddy list, mainly composed of mission runners and miners. 95% have left the game. Than checking what has been achieved in the area of mission runners and miners I guess I know why.

Simply almost no new content, and making miners even better targets for gankers did not help a lot either.

So I guess I should applaud to CCP. You successfully removed the guy's that mostly wanted to do some solo money now and then without too much social interference or waiting for others from the game.

Good to see you don't need thier money


Miners now also have... PI. (yeah mining needs a buff)

Missioners now also have.. Wormhole Space, Sleeper sites, Incursions, L5's, Hub Upgrades

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Ai Shun
#49 - 2011-11-24 09:47:31 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I'll make it even simpler: your counterpoint is based off of the fact that those companies started new product lines to cater to wider customer audiences. Are you saying that CCP's solution is in either creating a new game for the more, uh, "passive" players, or perhaps sharding the current one?


Perhaps not. But, if they were to leverage off the power of the EVE universe and the concepts the game promotes; why not introduce alternative styles of play into it?

Dust is one example. They are bringing a FPS into the EVE universe and allowing it to interact with the sandbox. If they were to add a RTS and interact as well, that could be a sensible, enjoyable and perhaps profitable thing.

Why not create more options within EVE as we know it now? As long as the core is not compromised in terms of content, as it has been, then more options to create a richer universe should be welcomed.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-11-24 11:33:37 UTC
Morganta wrote:
[quote=David Grogan][quote=DeBingJos][quote=David Grogan]

Have you ever seen a coal mining tycoon?
probably not, they don't exist
miners typically make enough to feed their family, and pay the mortgage and car payments
and as recent history has proven, they have a pretty decent chance to die in the mine
or years later from black lung



William A. Clark
American Gilded Age Mining Tycoon
"I never bought a man who wasn't for sale."

You don't get rich mining. You get rich underpaying others to mine for you.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
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