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Drone Armor regen/ improvements

First post
Author
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-08-25 17:46:59 UTC
Armor regen could actually be fairly quick, like ship shield regen. Just tie it to the weapons timer so that there is no regen during combat.

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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#22 - 2014-08-25 17:49:35 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Just a sidestep from the original suggestion and not conceeding any point I made, jsut an extra idea.

What about a low slot Drone-Bay Armor Repiar Module ?
Uses Nanite.
Spreads Armor HP equally across damaged drones per cycle.
Comes in 3 sizes.

No extra targeting, works slow on multiple, faster on single repairs, costs nanite, costs cap, costs time, costs a low slot, which is a lot for drone ships, especially for armor drone boats.

Any comment on that ?


I'll just reiterate what I stated above but explain more. I think this is a little large of a hit for drone users. Gun based ships have the capability to repair any of their weapons at will so long as they have enough nanite. However this only occurs if they are a overheating. Under normal use guns don't take any damage. Compare this now to drones which cannot even be overheated for extra dps. yet they can be damaged under normal operating procedure. So now you're telling me that I have to sacrifice either A) tank on my ship or B) dps of my drones just for the ability to repair them? I would venture to say most people would say forget that I'll just let the little guys die. Ultimately still not accomplishing the goal.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#23 - 2014-08-25 18:05:59 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
I'll just reiterate what I stated above but explain more. I think this is a little large of a hit for drone users. Gun based ships have the capability to repair any of their weapons at will so long as they have enough nanite. However this only occurs if they are a overheating. Under normal use guns don't take any damage. Compare this now to drones which cannot even be overheated for extra dps. yet they can be damaged under normal operating procedure. So now you're telling me that I have to sacrifice either A) tank on my ship or B) dps of my drones just for the ability to repair them? I would venture to say most people would say forget that I'll just let the little guys die. Ultimately still not accomplishing the goal.

Well, yes and no, T1 - sure, T2 - maybe, Faction - hmm, Augmented - hell no.

But like I said, this was just a side idea to bait some of the opposing side and show them other options and things to consider. I still got with the first premise. But I stated that in the first line.

In the end drones need some more tuning,maybe tackling each isue single won't get us far in the discussions anywhere.

Drones need:
UI improvements (blick if targeted, show correct info, show HP in bay ...)
UI tooltips
UI drag and drop assist/guard to the watchlist
UI drag and drop attack locked target
To be fully affected by all EWar
To be repairable in Drone Bay
More active commands (spiral in, spiral out keep range, close in....)
Resist mods
HP Mods/Rigs (shield/armor)
etc..
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#24 - 2014-08-26 00:51:47 UTC
You already have the ability to repair drones all you want, by using remote repairers. Drone ships can easily afford the high slots, my own drone ships ran for years with only a single gun for agro.

I would say the loss of the single low + some cap and cap regen is a bit heavy, except it's not purely a quality of life issue, and the faster the regen gets, the more important it becomes. I am proposing a module that grants a passive rate to drones in bay, so due to how passive regen works larger drones would regen faster than smaller ones. The regen rate would be set by the module, not the drone itself, so smaller ships that only carry smaller drones would get less benefit. It also helps to make BS stand out, as they have more slots to use, and so the battlecruiser and cruiser hulls either go without or make a harder choice for the ability.

In addition, I'm suggesting that it behave like station services for Shields. Certain drones would benefit more from this as they have more Shield HP than others. This balances in having less operational time under fire as to maximize this you would have to bring them in before they get into armor. The Gurista hulls in particular would make tremendous use of this.

I am against this using paste or other material to repair the drones because part of the design of drones is that they not require ammo. At some point that road leads to each drone being a scripted high slot module that uses a big pile of nanites to construct drones as needed, with the script determining type and activating the module launching the drone.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-08-26 01:44:01 UTC
I just dont like how shield drones get the benefit of having nice regen while armor drones dont. Its not like armor drones get more EHP. And the normal pros and cons of shield vs armor dont apply with drones, except for the regen thing.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#26 - 2014-08-26 05:06:09 UTC
This is dangerous, as a thanatos pilot i could say as much as i would love being able to repair my drones and Not just simply replace them; the fact is i have 1307 drones in my bay at the moment and a large cargohold for nanite pastes, i would literally be able to keep a fleet of Geckos out or fighters with extreme ease and very little risk to them. while it could seriously benefit smaller drone bay ships when you step into Dominix's, Sins, and Carriers it really gets silly and easy to break the system with.

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Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#27 - 2014-08-26 19:18:04 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
This is dangerous, as a thanatos pilot i could say as much as i would love being able to repair my drones and Not just simply replace them; the fact is i have 1307 drones in my bay at the moment and a large cargohold for nanite pastes, i would literally be able to keep a fleet of Geckos out or fighters with extreme ease and very little risk to them. while it could seriously benefit smaller drone bay ships when you step into Dominix's, Sins, and Carriers it really gets silly and easy to break the system with.


As we have said before the whole drones in carriers is a completely different problem. However,if you have that many drones in your bay this discussion is almost irrelevant as it's not like you're oging to get through 1300+ drones quickly even without a rep rate. TBH the fact carriers can carry drones in a bay clearly designed for fighters is a completely broken component but i'm not getting into that discussion here. We're more focused on the standard 5 drones per ship and limited drones to replace.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#28 - 2014-08-26 20:40:29 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
This is dangerous, as a thanatos pilot i could say as much as i would love being able to repair my drones and Not just simply replace them; the fact is i have 1307 drones in my bay at the moment and a large cargohold for nanite pastes, i would literally be able to keep a fleet of Geckos out or fighters with extreme ease and very little risk to them. while it could seriously benefit smaller drone bay ships when you step into Dominix's, Sins, and Carriers it really gets silly and easy to break the system with.


As we have said before the whole drones in carriers is a completely different problem. However,if you have that many drones in your bay this discussion is almost irrelevant as it's not like you're oging to get through 1300+ drones quickly even without a rep rate. TBH the fact carriers can carry drones in a bay clearly designed for fighters is a completely broken component but i'm not getting into that discussion here. We're more focused on the standard 5 drones per ship and limited drones to replace.


Actually i very much love that debate, if you want to take it elsewhere feel free to mail me, i can argue* about carriers and what does /doesn't need fixing all day. Its my 3rd favorite subject lol

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#29 - 2014-12-02 20:57:42 UTC
Thread reopened at the polite request of the OP.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#30 - 2014-12-02 21:13:22 UTC
well hull and armour repairs would make more sense than just armour.
but yes a drone-bay should be a maintenance hangar as-well for drones

on a sidenote i also think drone sig radius needs reworking.. alongside remodeling of the very old looking drones , they still have fixed turrets which look awful, and the actual model sizes should be increased as the drones scale upwards..
and then reduce the HP's too compensate.

lights
8
mediums
13
heavies
16
sentries
20
geckos
25

you just have too think about the drones fitting inside the ship of a frig (30 sig radius) .. and realise how silly it is having hammerheads coming out with sigs larger sigs, there not tardis's.
especially if in the future they want them too come out of the ships drone-bays force-fields themselves

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-12-02 21:14:30 UTC
I think it would be much more practical to have a high-slot module that reps drones in your bay, and has different sizes in the same way local armor reps work. There would also be a capital-sized mod to repair fighters and fighter-bombers.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#32 - 2014-12-02 21:43:33 UTC
it would also make sense if drones had a 'ammo-bay' inside that it had too refill from the drone-bay, which would draw ammo from cargo-hold or add a 'drone-ammo bay'.. special 'drone ammo' would be added to the game .. perhaps as a PI make-able commodity or the usual blueprint manufacturing avenue..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-12-02 22:47:23 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
it would also make sense if drones had a 'ammo-bay' inside that it had too refill from the drone-bay, which would draw ammo from cargo-hold or add a 'drone-ammo bay'.. special 'drone ammo' would be added to the game .. perhaps as a PI make-able commodity or the usual blueprint manufacturing avenue..

You can already do that with the magical mobile depots. :D
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#34 - 2014-12-02 23:07:51 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
it would also make sense if drones had a 'ammo-bay' inside that it had too refill from the drone-bay, which would draw ammo from cargo-hold or add a 'drone-ammo bay'.. special 'drone ammo' would be added to the game .. perhaps as a PI make-able commodity or the usual blueprint manufacturing avenue..

You can already do that with the magical mobile depots. :D


u misunderstand .. i don't mean replacing dead drones via the drone-bay .. i mean drones having infinite ammo and not having too reload is stupid and needs changing via the proposed way

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Alundil
Rolled Out
#35 - 2014-12-02 23:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Having seen this thread and others like it numerous times;

1. I believe in Rhea we'll finally be able to see drone health bars while in the drone bay
2. Yes to using Nanite repair paste to repair damaged drone armor (and possibly even structure) in the drone bay
3. No to passive-regen armor (or structure) since no other ship has any passive armor/structure regen
4. High slot repair modules are already ingame.
5. No to drone ammo. That would make managing drones in combat (PvP) quite tedious UNLESS the ammo was infinitesimally small and the drones were able to carry a hours and hours of ammo...... But at that point it is needless complexity for "just cuz"
6. Drone sig res - I completely understand where you're going with this, but reducing their sig res further would make them almost impossible to kill due to the way sig res affects damage application from all forms of attack. Imagine trying to clear a swarm of pirate bonued light drones ripping into you that all have a sig res of 8.......*8* (ugh)

Drone Health in drone bay - Rhea sends her regards

I'm right behind you

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#36 - 2014-12-02 23:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Alundil wrote:
Having seen this thread and others like it numerous times;

1. I believe in Rhea we'll finally be able to see drone health bars while in the drone bay
2. Yes to using Nanite repair paste to repair damaged drone armor (and possibly even structure) in the drone bay
3. No to passive-regen armor (or structure) since no other ship has any passive armor/structure regen
4. High slot repair modules are already ingame.
5. No to drone ammo. That would make managing drones in combat (PvP) quite tedious UNLESS the ammo was infinitesimally small and the drones were able to carry a hours and hours of ammo...... But at that point it is needless complexity for "just cuz"
6. Drone sig res - I completely understand where you're going with this, but reducing their sig res further would make them almost impossible to kill due to the way sig res affects damage application from all forms of attack. Imagine trying to clear a swarm of pirate bonued light drones ripping into you that all have a sig res of 8.......*8* (ugh)

Drone Health in drone bay - Rhea sends her regards


i guess the sig could start higher than 8, they should reduce the amount of drones on ships anyway , so many ships have full sets of drones, kind of kills the uniqueness of ships and reduces the gallente being drone masters feel when everyone has them.. adding more counters too kill small drones might make sense in combination .. light defenders could be designed for this job, along with HP nerf so less applied hits are needed just a few good shots which is really how it should be ..

drone ammo, could have say the same amount of ammo as frigs do on say neutron blasters, but with the 4s ROF , they would last a fair while.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#37 - 2014-12-02 23:38:29 UTC
Alundil wrote:
Having seen this thread and others like it numerous times;

1. I believe in Rhea we'll finally be able to see drone health bars while in the drone bay
2. Yes to using Nanite repair paste to repair damaged drone armor (and possibly even structure) in the drone bay
3. No to passive-regen armor (or structure) since no other ship has any passive armor/structure regen
4. High slot repair modules are already ingame.
5. No to drone ammo. That would make managing drones in combat (PvP) quite tedious UNLESS the ammo was infinitesimally small and the drones were able to carry a hours and hours of ammo...... But at that point it is needless complexity for "just cuz"
6. Drone sig res - I completely understand where you're going with this, but reducing their sig res further would make them almost impossible to kill due to the way sig res affects damage application from all forms of attack. Imagine trying to clear a swarm of pirate bonued light drones ripping into you that all have a sig res of 8.......*8* (ugh)

Drone Health in drone bay - Rhea sends her regards


1. Yes you are correct which is why i reopened the thread. You just beat me to posting before I could edit the initial post.
2. Yup
3. True, but every other weapon system doesn't have to worry about damage to their turrets/launchers just by firing them. They can run out of ammo, but it will take a drake much more time to run out of ammo than a myrm run out of drones due to damage. Even the fastest recalls will still take armor damage sometimes in PVE or PVP.
4. Agreed
5. I feel the damage differences is already done by the drone damage types. However one option i never considered would be decreased dps over extended time. it would make the other damage systems more relevant to structure bashing vs. the current model of "release sentries, tab to movie until structure is dead"
6. Agreed
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#38 - 2014-12-02 23:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
Harvey James wrote:

they should reduce the amount of drones on ships anyway , so many ships have full sets of drones, kind of kills the uniqueness of ships and reduces the gallente being drone masters feel when everyone has them..


I've been thinking about this for awhile. In particular the Myrm gets completely shafted IMO. Yes it can launch more drone bandwidth than a vexor but then u get into the issue of mixed drone sizes. In the end it gets blown away by simply the navy vexor which, granted is more expensive, can launch a full fleet of large drones and have back up for more. Personally I would love to see the Gallente ships follow a similar (but not so exaggerated) route as the guirista ships with the unique drone buffs.

For example....(not exact but you'll get the idea)
Remove the excess bandwidth on the Myrm so it can only launch a full fleet of medium drones,
Increase Gallente BC skill bonus to 12.5% to damage and HP.

I'm am well and sure those numbers would break something but hey i'm just coming up with an idea. CCP gets paid to perfect those.

That is a basic thought but I think we may be straying off the drone topic.
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