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Trust and Banks/Investments in EVE
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Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-11-24 12:10:20 UTC
Fresnic wrote:
What is the point of being trustworthy, and how do we build up that trust in a game like EVE?


two reasons:

1. to scam a bigger amount once you are trusted.
2. to become a çommunity'figure ala cribba.

in the end everyone scams.

also CCP gave us a bank already, its called ýour wallet.'

ive never invested in an eve bank or investment and as a result ive made seveal billion ISK. I make it a rule never to loan ISK to anyone unless they live less than 5 minutes away from my house by car P
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
#22 - 2011-11-25 03:00:54 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
Fresnic wrote:
What is the point of being trustworthy, and how do we build up that trust in a game like EVE?


two reasons:

1. to scam a bigger amount once you are trusted.
2. to become a çommunity'figure ala cribba.

in the end everyone scams.

also CCP gave us a bank already, its called ýour wallet.'

ive never invested in an eve bank or investment and as a result ive made seveal billion ISK. I make it a rule never to loan ISK to anyone unless they live less than 5 minutes away from my house by car P


Sorry to disappoint you, but not everyone scams. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've never scammed which means not everyone scams.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-11-25 11:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Rellik B00n
Amarr Citizen 155 wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
Fresnic wrote:
What is the point of being trustworthy, and how do we build up that trust in a game like EVE?


two reasons:

1. to scam a bigger amount once you are trusted.
2. to become a çommunity'figure ala cribba.

in the end everyone scams.

also CCP gave us a bank already, its called ýour wallet.'

ive never invested in an eve bank or investment and as a result ive made seveal billion ISK. I make it a rule never to loan ISK to anyone unless they live less than 5 minutes away from my house by car P


Sorry to disappoint you, but not everyone scams. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've never scammed which means not everyone scams.



Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end


that clearer?

You are just a scammer in waiting Smile

edit: see, I could answer you the same way and say im very sad that you can't speak - were you born that way or has the condition developed over time? Obviously Id be missing the part where you werent saying that at all and there was a full sentence providing some clarity on what you were in fact saying, much like you did with what i was saying. Big smile

edit2: see me when the server closes if you still havent scammed and you can have all my ISK!
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
#24 - 2011-11-25 20:11:51 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:


Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end


that clearer?

You are just a scammer in waiting Smile

edit: see, I could answer you the same way and say im very sad that you can't speak - were you born that way or has the condition developed over time? Obviously Id be missing the part where you werent saying that at all and there was a full sentence providing some clarity on what you were in fact saying, much like you did with what i was saying. Big smile

edit2: see me when the server closes if you still havent scammed and you can have all my ISK!


You must be right, I guess, since I've never been in a position to steal massive amounts of isk....


BTW, I'm not saying you should trust people because I don't. I'm just saying I know I'm not a scammer and a person could make the argument that I'm holding out for a bigger scam.....but that person would be an idiot or at the very least ignorant to Eve history.


I'll be sure to look you up when the server closes.
flakeys
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-11-25 21:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end everyone scams.



All orphanage pilots only sit on the jita undock and not one of them has a ******* clue what pvp or 1vs1 is.


See i can also make generalizations.

Rellik B00n wrote:
ive never invested in an eve bank or investment and as a result ive made seveal billion ISK. I make it a rule never to loan ISK to anyone unless they live less than 5 minutes away from my house by car P


I've invested multiple times and can buy at least 2 fitted motherships out of the interest returns.



There is a difference between something being verry risky to achieve and something being impossible to achieve.


Would i tell a friend of mine to do investments if he asks me what to do with his 10 B , 99% change i'd tell him not to do it and keep it safe in his wallet.Do i feel investments can make you a good amount of interest return on idle isk , why yes i do.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Shar Tegral
#26 - 2011-11-26 01:41:08 UTC
flakeys wrote:
I've invested multiple times and can buy at least 2 fitted motherships out of the interest returns.

Just for you, reduced returns if I ever run another investment.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-11-26 02:52:12 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end everyone scams.



All orphanage pilots only sit on the jita undock and not one of them has a ******* clue what pvp or 1vs1 is.


See i can also make generalizations.


1. thats not a generalization its the truth.
2. my quote is an observation based on 5 years lurking in these forums. At some point or other almost everyone ive seen come to be in a position of ultimate trust has then scammed. Not generalization, observation.
flakeys wrote:

Rellik B00n wrote:
ive never invested in an eve bank or investment and as a result ive made seveal billion ISK. I make it a rule never to loan ISK to anyone unless they live less than 5 minutes away from my house by car P


I've invested multiple times and can buy at least 2 fitted motherships out of the interest returns.



There is a difference between something being verry risky to achieve and something being impossible to achieve.


Would i tell a friend of mine to do investments if he asks me what to do with his 10 B , 99% change i'd tell him not to do it and keep it safe in his wallet.Do i feel investments can make you a good amount of interest return on idle isk , why yes i do.


so what you are saying is that you agree that only 1% of investments are worthwhile, ergo 99% are scams, ergo
Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end everyone scams.


make your mind up dude, either they do or they dont, its a generalization or it isnt. Unless we're talking quantum investments here?

There have been many good offerings over the years I will admit. I would truly love CCP to place some kind of mechanic in game to help these folk produce 100% foolproof investment schemes, but its never going to happen.

so ill stick with my wallet and i would recommend to 100% of people that they do the same.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
#28 - 2011-11-26 03:18:08 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:


1. thats not a generalization its the truth.
2. my quote is an observation based on 5 years lurking in these forums. At some point or other almost everyone ive seen come to be in a position of ultimate trust has then scammed. Not generalization, observation.

so what you are saying is that you agree that only 1% of investments are worthwhile, ergo 99% are scams, ergo
Rellik B00n wrote:
in the end everyone scams.


make your mind up dude, either they do or they dont, its a generalization or it isnt. Unless we're talking quantum investments here?

There have been many good offerings over the years I will admit. I would truly love CCP to place some kind of mechanic in game to help these folk produce 100% foolproof investment schemes, but its never going to happen.

so ill stick with my wallet and i would recommend to 100% of people that they do the same.


I guess I'm confused a little. So what you're saying is "at some point or other almost everyone I've seen come to be in a position of ultimate trust has then scammed" and "ergo 99% are scams" = "in the end everyone scams"?

The only thing i can agree with is that your money is safer in your wallet.
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#29 - 2011-11-26 04:37:41 UTC
I haven't scammed anyone, even though I have been in a position to make a very large amount of money. The only time I would scam someone is if I set out to scam them (e.g. I have done a bit of margin trading scams on an alt... but those are expensive and high risk. I also wouldn't be opposed to running obvious scam is obvious types of scams). I wouldn't scam a bond, but thats because I don't offer bonds. Don't have enough trust in my own ability to truly get a profit out of it all...

Anyways, trust is a commodity, just like everything else in this game. In this case, you can trade trust directly for isk at a high rate, or make small amounts as dividend payments for remaining trustworthy (e.g. Chribba, who does third party stuff... If only I had that type of trust capital... I do keep to my word.)
flakeys
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-11-26 08:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
@ shar , with you , sure i'd take the offer.If you followed MD last year , wich i assume you would have , you'd also noticed at some point i gave an interest free loan but i forgot who it was for. Blink

@ rellik , the difference i pointed out is that yes investments is VERRY risky and i would not advise it to people who like to play safe , HOWEVER stating everyone scams is a lie.A lot of people scam is something TOTALLY different to everyone scams.THAT was my point , people who come in here like you and claim all people scam here or there is no way to earn money on them are talking out of their asses.

It is also why in reply to your ' i have not invested as such made X amount' i threw in my reply to what i did earn on investments.Knowing verry well people will see me as a show-off/dickhead/blowed up Md person / etc for stating my earnings.It is how Md works either you get shitted on for not saying your net worth or you get shitted on for saying it.But to those i can only say you're time will come soon enough where you all can point and laugh at flakeys again when i get scammed once more because that is inevitable with taking risks.

Just as it is with bond offerings , if you open your mouth in favour of the OP you get shitted on by people who have a huge dislike of investments for their own reasons and if you speak against the OP's offering you get shitted on by those who know the OP and the OP himself.It is the reason why i try not to get into loan offering discussions any more or in general MD discussion but at times like this one i fail to keep my mouth shut and dive for the incoming trash asap.Come to think of it i'd better shut the **** up from here on and only reply to my investments , too tired for the same old wordspinning and ****.


Loved ya MD o/.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Fresnic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-11-26 18:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Fresnic
I'm def not scammer-material, I was asking this question in the hopes of learning more about the trust metrics used by people. I was taking a look at some encryption software and some other website called Advogato (http://www.advogato.org/) which uses some weird trust metrics (http://www.advogato.org/trust-metric.html)

I was mainly wondering how to increase trust in the game or to make the consequences of scamming a corp (in the manner of the large scammers) so severe that scamming decreases.

I guess it's kinda like real-life, like flakeys is saying with the investments.

Where are the sites for bonds/investments in EVE? Would it be worthwhile to start my own for newbs or what? lol

Adventures of an EVE Online Newb http://evenewbadventures.weebly.com/
Shar Tegral
#32 - 2011-11-26 21:53:30 UTC
Fresnic wrote:
Where are the sites for bonds/investments in EVE? Would it be worthwhile to start my own for newbs or what? lol
FWIW:

You, personally, will not be trusted no matter how secure the system you come up with. The weakest link in the system is you and you are no one. At least as of yet. Trust capital is harder and harder to acquire simply because of all the asshats that have come before this time. The list of failures is not limited to just scams I might point out so even if you are trustworthy and a competent programmer, the public perception is absolutely against you. Heck, pro forma, I'm against you.

Essentially trust capital is gained one person at a time. Each person that you gain capital with spreads your influence. This is why good advice always counters loan requests with the question: why won't your own corp mates fund you? That is my suggestion entirely.

Build your system because you want it built.
Invite friends to use it.
Reflect, adjust, then expand to corp.
Reflect, adjust, then expand to alliance.

If your corp is small, keep doing what your doing but find a bigger corp.
Ditto alliance.

Eventually you will not have to go around hat in hand seeking depositors or investors, they will seek you out.
Once you reach that point, then you start dabbling in public attention gathering.

If you keep true, and successful most of the time, you'll eventually be like Chribba or, a much smaller example, myself. Your reputation is unquestioned. Your judgement might be - trustworthy does not equal infallible. However when you report setbacks or disasters your are believed instead of accused. (Though trolls accuse simply for the troll of it.)

There, that's all you get from me for free.... today.
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