These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

New Minmatar Projectile Ammo buff: Boon for gankers!

Author
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#1 - 2011-11-23 00:27:16 UTC
While the Tornado is a flashy new toy for our arsenal....there is ANOTHER tool available for gankers now.

Its called the new improved Quake L.

OK, OK, its not quite as cool as the Tornado. But bear with me.

Yes, projectiles got buffed, Quake now has a large tracking bonus, and pointless penalties removed.
Why is this useful for ganking?

Usually, arty ganking ships carry the 'big three' RF Fusion, PP, and EMP.
They give you large sources of EXP, Thermal and EM damage, along with a token amount of KIN. (about a 90/10 split)

But what if you want to hit a Kinetic hole?
Quake isn't 'purified', however, in addition to a small (2%) increase in overall damage, it gives a 40/60 split between KIN/EXP.
This makes Quake the BEST ammo for applying Kinetic damage.

Provided that you remember that Quake's optimal is 15km, and warp-in appropriately....
its use should be considered against targets tanked against the other damage types.

Heck, with the built-in tracking bonus and extra damage, it may even be 'the best' choice in many applications.

Thoughts?
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#2 - 2011-11-23 00:37:46 UTC
Turns out as well as boosting hybrids this winter, CCP boosted Winmattar even more.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#3 - 2011-11-23 00:39:38 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Turns out as well as boosting hybrids this winter, CCP boosted Winmattar even more.


Malcanis' law strikes once again, albeit in a slightly different manner. CCP just can't give up on making Amarr/Minnie OP.
Olleybear
A Blessed Bean
The Initiative.
#4 - 2011-11-23 00:43:04 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Turns out as well as boosting hybrids this winter, CCP boosted Winmattar even more.


Lies!

I took on two drakes and a falcon in my solo pawnmobile cyclone and still lost.

Big smile

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#5 - 2011-11-23 00:57:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dradius Calvantia
What is with all these suicide ganker whine threads?

Yes, there are many changes coming up in the new expansion that affect the performance of most of the weapon systems in EVE (projectile T2 ammo is not the only ammo getting re-balanced.) These changes are probably going to go a long way towards fixing some of the problems with combat in EVE as it has stood for the last 18 months. At the very least, they are going to cause the current fleet doctrines to be shaken up a bit, and people are going to rethink how they play the game.

What these changes do not make one bit of difference to, is how trivially easy it is to gank people who are being unattentive or just plain stupid in high sec. It is easy to kill you now, it will continue to be easy after the expansion. These changes may slightly alter the tactics that gankers use, but it really does not matter if they use a 50 mill isk hurricane, a 100 mill isk tempest, a 70 mill isk tornado, or a couple 1 mill isk thrashers to gank your 10 billion isk T1 hauler. It is still very profitable and very easy.

Hell, you guys are even getting your insurance pay out nerf; so please quit whining already.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-11-23 00:58:05 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Turns out as well as boosting hybrids this winter, CCP boosted Winmattar even more.


That's why was silly to train hybrids just because of that rumour, and will still be for a long time.

Will take a month or two for people to realise those hybrids and ships using them are still far, I mean very far behind, of projectiles and lasers or missiles.

Too many game mechanics would need to be changed to keep actual level of guns/ships buffs = will not happen

Too many problems to be solved about ships survivability to in fact be able to use their weapons properly in other environments than station and gate camps, witch would make them closer to projectiles and lasers = will not happen

Hybrids buff is an utopia because you'll make them another copy of projectiles or lasers, so if you expect a decent hybrids buff and keep exactly the same mechanics like:

Ship base speed

Ship hp

Sucking active ARMOR tank

Rigs/mods penalty

Ships bonus

Stupid web range/strength on BLASTER HULLS

Stupid shut down of MWD with a simple meta 1 warp scrambler

Blasters bonus dps being ridiculous benefit of the huge drawbacks

Rails being has always not the best choice when you have to one shot stuff to succeed cleaning the area fast (reccons/logis)

So, is the stuff buffed? -yes, obviously.
Can you fit your Diemost now with neutrons and have a decent tank? -no

Will those blaster ships or rails ships get the crap out of some stuff?-yes, meta 1 arty's can do that too.

ATM is clearly not enough and the needed changes so those finally are the best choice for other thing than gank miners forgot their appointment.

I'm happy some stuff got buffed for minie too, I don't think they needed but since it's there there's no reason for me to use my primary trained race guns/ships over my secondary one has I don't fly Nyx's or Thany's.
Hope lachesis and arazu will get some speed boost, still fitted with AC's and only points, Damps are still crap.
Happy Oneiros becomes more useful for gangs now.

That's it.



Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#7 - 2011-11-23 02:02:27 UTC
Minmatar is to Eve as Death Knight is to WoW :)

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#8 - 2011-11-23 02:57:07 UTC
Titania Hrothgar wrote:
Minmatar is to Eve as Death Knight is to WoW :)



You'll have to explain that analogy... sorry What?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-11-23 02:59:25 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Titania Hrothgar wrote:
Minmatar is to Eve as Death Knight is to WoW :)



You'll have to explain that analogy... sorry What?


Not empty quoting.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#10 - 2011-11-23 03:49:20 UTC
I'm guessing that Death Knights are the best looking, but also require far more training to use effectively. Their skill set doesn't reward brainless min-maxing and straight forward grinding, but it grants a flexibility that causes causes other players to complain SO loudly, they fail to ever realize they were simply outwitted by superior players.

Don't know anything about WOW, but I'm pretty sure I nailed the analogy.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-11-23 03:50:44 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
I'm guessing that Death Knights are the best looking, but also require far more training to use effectively. Their skill set doesn't reward brainless min-maxing and straight forward grinding, but it grants a flexibility that causes causes other players to complain SO loudly, they fail to ever realize they were simply outwitted by superior players.

Don't know anything about WOW, but I'm pretty sure I nailed the analogy.



Seems like it.

I can fly vagabond and with other toon scimitar and rapier/hugnin .. However i cant really control them. Sad
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-23 04:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: leviticus ander
Herr Wilkus wrote:
I'm guessing that Death Knights are the best looking, but also require far more training to use effectively. Their skill set doesn't reward brainless min-maxing and straight forward grinding, but it grants a flexibility that causes causes other players to complain SO loudly, they fail to ever realize they were simply outwitted by superior players.

Don't know anything about WOW, but I'm pretty sure I nailed the analogy.


fairly close. they do allow for massive flexibility, they can either be awesome tanks, awesome damage dealers, or really good damage dealers that are next to impossible to kill one on one and even in 2 on one engagements if they know what to do they can still easily come out on top.
they also start half way through the game by starting at level 55 instead of level 1 and they come out of the starting area 3 hours later at level 60 with gear to kick anyones ass.
and their tactics consist of only 5-6 skills where pretty much every other class has at least a dozen.

EDIT: death knights are what made me start looking elsewhere for an MMO and I wanted something not grind-based and that's how I came across eve and I'm VERY glad I came to that conclusion.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-11-23 04:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Huh? Quake Buff? Where?

I see no devblog. I doubt they'd do this without respectively buffing Gleam and Javelin, or...?
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-11-23 04:26:37 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Huh? Quake Buff? Where?

I see no devblog. I doubt they'd do this without respectively buffing Gleam and Javelin, or...?


T2 ammo is overhauled , not sure about missiles... or at least thats what i heard somewhere..
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#15 - 2011-11-23 04:32:24 UTC
DK's are a midline DPS class and the worst performing tanks at endgame. This isn't 2009, stop with terrible analogies.

Now about EVE, the Gallente buff isn't enough to make them worth playing in PvP vs Winmatar, but it's a good start. Most likely further adjustments will come in future patches and/or expansions, possibly both Gallente buffs and Winmatar nerfage.


However on a non PvP look at this, the Gallente buff has made one significant note, the Kronos now rivals the Mach for carebear boat of choice in L4's.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-11-23 04:35:42 UTC
different ship, different weapon systems, different fleet composition is for different type of encounters.

I guess that is quite obvious. Nobody want really balanced game. There are tweaks, so one "specific ship" cant be beated by any other combination only with that "specific ship" .

But you dont really want gallante blasters/rails to be exact the same as autocannons, otherwise why not fly minmatar straight away.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#17 - 2011-11-23 04:47:20 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Huh? Quake Buff? Where?

I see no devblog. I doubt they'd do this without respectively buffing Gleam and Javelin, or...?


All the punitive, stupid penalties were removed. Tracking penalty was removed, and replaced with a 25% bonus.

As tracking can have a significant effect on ganking with 1400MM (higher shot quality, more chance for wrecking shots....)
this makes Quake useful for the application.

Downsides:
1. Has 50% of RF optimal (so, 15 km is where you want to gank from, not really a big deal.)
2. Not 'purified damage' - 40/60 split between KIN/EXP.

Upsides:
1.) Overall, 2% more damage than RF high-damage ammo varieties.
2.) 25% native tracking bonus. (very nice)
3.) Deals a lot more Kinetic Damage than any other ammo available. (Important when scouting gank targets for resistance holes - as there are no purified high damage 'Kinetic' damage ammos available)

Result: New toy in the gankers toolbox - Go-to Ammo choice for targets vulnerable to KIN damage.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-11-23 04:54:16 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:

Downsides:
1. Has 50% of RF optimal (so, 15 km is where you want to gank from, not really a big deal.)
2. Not 'purified damage' - 40/60 split between KIN/EXP.

Upsides:
1.) Overall, 2% more damage than RF high-damage ammo varieties.
2.) 25% native tracking bonus. (very nice)
3.) Deals a lot more Kinetic Damage than any other ammo available. (Important when scouting gank targets for resistance holes - as there are no purified high damage 'Kinetic' damage ammos available)

Result: New toy in the gankers toolbox - Go-to Ammo choice for targets vulnerable to KIN damage.


Well, the Hulk's two highest resistances are explosive and then kinetic, so I can't see this being too useful for the majority of gankers. P Seems to me like less of a "buff," and more of a "turn it into a usable ammo type."
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#19 - 2011-11-23 06:25:52 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
However on a non PvP look at this, the Gallente buff has made one significant note, the Kronos now rivals the Mach for carebear boat of choice in L4's.


Kronos always sucked and will continue to suck because the vindi is a far better choice.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-11-23 06:37:07 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
However on a non PvP look at this, the Gallente buff has made one significant note, the Kronos now rivals the Mach for carebear boat of choice in L4's.


The buff wasn't that big, not even close.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

12Next page