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[Hyperion] Burner Missions

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Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#121 - 2014-08-23 00:07:40 UTC
Defeated all 5 now. 4/5 I did in the same ship, guess which P

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

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Gabriel Luis
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#122 - 2014-08-23 00:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Luis
My attempts on the burner missions.
EDIT: I know I can do all of them in a Worm, but I really avoided it so you can have another option to run the mission.

Serpentis:

Worm, MSE+MSAB: tackled at 18k and died. Should have had another go with it but wasn't having much hope, since this was the 1st burner attempt.
Hawk, 2x MSAB: tanked easily, not much dps.
Enyo, 150mm, 2x SAR: Couldn't track it, but tank was enough. Used the racial resistances, so lows were 2x SAR and 2x MFE.

- Got my Astarte with armor+skirmish+implant links, almost maxed but CS IV.

Daredevil, 150mm, 2x SAR: Same lows from Enyo, rigs were Nano, Thermic and Kinetic Pumps. Tank was barely holding, was at ~30% armor and got alpha'ed since no DCU.
Daredevil, 150mm, 2x SAR, ECM: After 2 ECM cycles, got him.

Angel:

Daredevil, Neutron, 2x SAR, ECM: Switched the resistance pumps to Exp and EM. Couldn't track it, got a jam cycle and warped out.
Daredevil, Neutron, 2x SAR, 2x Web: Going at like 40m/s, it died easily.

- Links off from now beyond

Blood:

Daredevil, Neutron, 2x SAR, 2x Web: Added a NOS to give it a little more cap power, swicthed the resist rigs and removed pump, adding a ACR so NOS could fit. Started well, but cap pressure was too big and died in a ball of fire.
Worm, 3x DDA, MWD, Navigation Computer: Pre-heated MWD but he aggro'ed instantly. Scrammed I couldn't do much.
Worm, 3x DDA, 3x Radar ECM: Started well, since it wasn't in scram range of me when I landed. Got a ECM cycle anyway. Oh btw, did you know that Worm has a short locking range? Drones were doing well against the burner, but I went back home to fit a sebo because it was webbing me from 35k away.

- EVE cluster got DDoS'ed and I had some RL stuff to do. On the next day, there was a 35MB download. Not sure if the burner was nerfed here.

Worm, 3x DDA, 2x ECM, SEBO: Couldn't get a jam cycle.
Jaguar, passive fit: He couldn't drop me over 75% shields, but not enough DPS, nor the application was good.
Worm, passive fit: As this bro on /r/eve suggested, I went for it. Worked like a charm, and I had more luck with Warriors than Hobgoblins.

Guristas:

Daredevil, MWD+web, Kin resists, SAR: Got too far when approached, like 5k. The burner was slowly dropping me, and I couldn't get closer to it.
Daredevil, MWD+web, Kin resists, 2x SAR: 1st attempt my cap booster decided not to load. On the 2nd I slingshotted badly, burned reps and got mad, took a break from it and went to the Sansha.
Daredevil, MWD+Scram, 2x Kin Hardeners+T2 Rig, 2x SAR: Burned MWD.
Comet: Just realized it was too slow inside the complex, 4.2km/s hot. The drones are a dealbreaker though, he might go for one of them and then you get in scram range.


- Sansha
- Interdiction Maneuvers to simulate faction web

Daredevil, EM+Therm rigs, SAR, ANP, AB, DCII: Almost died, got mad again and turned links on. Killed it.
Daredevil, EM+Therm rigs, SAR, Thermic Plating, AB, DCII: Pulled the mission again, was a close call, 39% hull and 87% on the SAR. Since the alt has Armored V + Implant, I had 15% armor bonus, so maybe it could be even closer or maybe not even lived.


I'd put them in difficulty order by: Blood > Guristas > Serpentis ≥ Sansha > Angel.

The Blood one is just a ton hard to take down, it's active tank is way too strong. On the Guristas one, maybe nerfing the alpha a little bit and adding RoF to compensate.

[03:18:54] Zack1023 > tishu = pl, nc.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#123 - 2014-08-23 04:57:14 UTC
I've been trying to solo these for a couple hours now and I'm sorry Fozzie, they're just too difficult to for solo pilots.
Possible? Sure. It's possible.
But how many ships will a pilot lose before they find a fit that works?
Then once they find a fit that sometimes works, how often will they mess up and die?
I'm willing to wager that the vast majority of people who complete these will be people who use more than one character. The risk drops dramatically with another ship or links.
I'm really disappointed with the implementation of these, because the idea is very promising.
I think it's especially silly to err on the side of difficult with a first deployment. Makes for sour grapes
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2014-08-23 05:50:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

There's quite a variety of ships I've been able to beat these guys with so far. Some ships appear on the list of viable options a lot (most people have realized that Worms can run a lot of these, although they are often far from the best option) and others appear for just a few.


Too late. Worm price in Jita up by 30% already Sad
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#125 - 2014-08-23 05:50:51 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I thought it was more or less normal to train multiple races.


For the running of lv4 missions? What's the point?


for starters pirate ships require 2 races trained.

second, I don't think one race is optimal for lv4 running, pretty much every ship has some short coming that can be fairly easily taken care of by training another race.

third, training frigs 5, and a small \weapon to t2 levels is nearly trivial.

fourth: do people really have characters trained in one race only and they aren't willing to do more training for the sole purpose of running lv4 missions!? that seems like a very specific character that doesn't really seem like it would be worth having to me.

I mean if we are only considering pilots 5 months and younger sure, there will probably be some problems in not being able to do too much, but still they should probably be able to do at least one of the burner missions.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#126 - 2014-08-23 06:48:43 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

I mean if we are only considering pilots 5 months and younger sure, there will probably be some problems in not being able to do too much, but still they should probably be able to do at least one of the burner missions.


how many isk will they loose before understanding who's the right one? :/

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[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#127 - 2014-08-23 09:20:11 UTC
Worm is OP.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#128 - 2014-08-23 10:16:10 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I never said these guys would be easy, but they are definitely doable and once the EVE hivemind has had a bit of time to mull them over I'm sure you guys will consider them to be trivial within a few weeks. Big smile

And won't that be a shame. What would be much more interesting is if these Burners were more dynamic in their own fitting options.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Lugalzagezi666
#129 - 2014-08-23 11:56:30 UTC
Nam Dnilb wrote:
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
Guristas burner... oh well, after failed try to catch him with enyo (2,2k/s vs 3,6k/s) I just warped 170dps lml hawk at 0 and killed him withou moving, comfortably tanking him with medium booster. Quite easy too.


This is weird, light missiles fromrange did nothing to the guy for me. Like, not even scratching him. Question


This was my hawk fit, looking at it now, it actually has 180dps in eft and I also used 3% implants so around 190dps as I dont have lm spec at l5 :

[Hawk, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Medium Shield Booster II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
[empty high slot]

Small Bay Loading Accelerator II
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Maybe you had fury/precision missiles loaded and they cant reach to range gurista burner is orbiting.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-08-23 11:57:32 UTC
No way I beat this Cruor solo in a frig ... with Worm MSE+double MASB 240 dps (hobs+rage inferno) I can barely scratch its armor, it's permatanking. When it switched to my drones I could escape. With a Hawk (my first try) I could permatank its damage until I ran out of boosters but I'm not able to create the required DPS to break the tank.

Maybe I could roll the dice with ECM ... but that's not what I would ever do on TQ with an expensive ship/fit.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-08-23 12:06:32 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:

I'm willing to wager that the vast majority of people who complete these will be people who use more than one character. The risk drops dramatically with another ship or links

With 2 ships these missions are a piece of cake, just run them together with a griffin and permajam the rat.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Lugalzagezi666
#132 - 2014-08-23 12:07:48 UTC
XvXTeacherVxV wrote:

I'm willing to wager that the vast majority of people who complete these will be people who use more than one character. The risk drops dramatically with another ship or links.


So much this, imo devs should seriously reconsider allowing ONLY player getting the mission being able to enter deadspace and eliminate the effect of offgrid links in mission deadspace.

Solo = very hard even with pimp pirate/t2 ship, add 1 more char and these "elite pirate pilots" suddenly become usual pve cannon fodder.
Lugalzagezi666
#133 - 2014-08-23 12:20:50 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
No way I beat this Cruor solo in a frig ... with Worm MSE+double MASB 240 dps (hobs+rage inferno) I can barely scratch its armor, it's permatanking. When it switched to my drones I could escape. With a Hawk (my first try) I could permatank its damage until I ran out of boosters but I'm not able to create the required DPS to break the tank.

Maybe I could roll the dice with ECM ... but that's not what I would ever do on TQ with an expensive ship/fit.


[Worm, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
EM Ward Amplifier II
Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

'Augmented' Hobgoblin x2
'Augmented' Acolyte x3

I poped him with this fit - mind you, I almost ran out of cap charges and my last 2 drones were in structure. Couldnt figure out if hobs or infiltrators do better damage but he certainly mitigates alot of rocket/lm damage if he is not webbed.


Tipa Riot wrote:
With 2 ships these missions are a piece of cake, just run them together with a griffin and permajam the rat.

Griffin is not worth it, just 2 worm or other fancy frigs and overwhelm the burner with 600-700dps. To start breaking their tanks you need 150-250, but once you add 400 more, they drop like a fly. Not even talking about additional webs and ease of tackling them because they go into tunnel vision once they focus on first frig and dont care about anyone else (also true if they switch to drones, but drones die very fast and it is random).
Daoden
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2014-08-23 13:40:28 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
I poped him with this fit - mind you, I almost ran out of cap charges and my last 2 drones were in structure. Couldnt figure out if hobs or infiltrators do better damage but he certainly mitigates alot of rocket/lm damage if he is not webbed.

This has been my issue with several of the burners is I can hit them but their speed for all of them mitigates a lot of my damage with either drones or missiles. I've been able to tank all of them though with the right fit and still get around 170-180 DPS.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2014-08-23 13:56:36 UTC
With another pilot we tried the Griffin approach ... and it didn't work as expected ... as soon as the burner was jammed it pulled range quickly until out of range ... and came back when the ECMs were turned off. I tried the suggested Worm fit and was finally able to tear it down with Augmented Warriors. The burner's armor repair seems to work similar like passive shield regeneration but repairing only (to) a certain amount (I found it roughly 75% armor at my 2nd try).

One thing my fellow fleet member noticed was, that he got a successful jam but still was scrambled and webbed - looks like a bug. I experienced this once also during my tests before, but as I got the jam lock so close before my death, I was not sure about.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Coelomate
Gilliomate Corp
#136 - 2014-08-23 16:59:29 UTC
Yeah, once you jam a burner they move 100+km away at max speed. The key if you're going to use ECM cheese is to have your other ship web the **** out of them.

Daredevil + griffin easily stomps everything but the worm. I need to experiment a bit more with the worm but it might be doable consistently as well.

Love,

~Coelomate
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2014-08-23 17:28:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Any Burner except for the Cruor dies to a T2 fitted Daredevil. One thing always overheat your guns when in range and the Burner is webbed.

Burner Daredevil
Doesn't work anymore due to changes to the Burner Daredevil = more DPS??
- Get an active armor kin/therm tank on your Daredevil, fit 2x webs + small cap booster, get rails.. done

Burner Succubus
- Get an active armor em/therm tank on your Daredevil, fit 2x webs + small cap booster, get Blaster + void
This one is a little tricky, you have to web him instantly either with overheated 2x webs or web+AB. In case you don't have a booster or faction web or are screwed if you didn't. Then set keep at range to 1.5km.

Burner Dramiel
- Get an active armor explo tank on your Daredevil, fit 2x webs + small cap booster, get Blaster + void set keep at range to 1.5km .. done

Burner Worm
- Get an active armor kin tank on your Daredevil, fit MWD + scram + small cap booster, fit one T2 speed rig, get Blaster + void
This one again is a little tricky, while you burn to scram the Worm your MWD sig blooms and you get hit hard, overheat your kin Hardeners and repper, when you have scramed the Worm set keep at range to 750m.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#138 - 2014-08-23 19:08:59 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Any Burner except for the Cruor dies to a T2 fitted Daredevil. One thing always overheat your guns when in range and the Burner is webbed.


The cruor will die to a max gank/no tank rail daredevil if you kite just outside web range and stiff-arm it with your web whenever it gets within 10 km.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#139 - 2014-08-24 05:54:44 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

I mean if we are only considering pilots 5 months and younger sure, there will probably be some problems in not being able to do too much, but still they should probably be able to do at least one of the burner missions.


how many isk will they loose before understanding who's the right one? :/


probably none thanks to eve-survival and other community resources.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#140 - 2014-08-24 06:35:30 UTC
CCP, make these npc fits more random and don't, for the love of Bob, give out so much intel.

When is CCP going to create PVE content designed to be unpredictable? True PVE based on PVP. Not this garbage where it ends up on several EVE guide sites. The fact that Fozzie thinks we will have these figured out quick, tells me they are scripting these missions wrong..

They need more randomization. There needs to be high risk and high payout. They need to have their own agents. Id rather do this type of PvE full time instead of having to grind boring ass lvl 4 missions to get the burner ones. Isnt this game supposed to be fun?