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Intergalactic Summit

 
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To arms!
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#141 - 2014-08-23 17:46:46 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Can't say I have much attachment to a planet I've never even seen with my own eyes, and will probably never set foot on. The State is many things to me. A rock is not one of the primary ingredients as far as I'm concerned.

You just don't understand what does it mean for Caldari.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

The reclamation of Caldari Prime is the only thing that kept the State united over our two centuries of existence. It's our rallying cry, our mythology and religion is bound around the physical characteristics of the planet.

HAAK-KIN K'LEN !
HAAK-KIN K'LEN !
HAAK-KIN K'LEN !

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#142 - 2014-08-23 18:19:20 UTC
Nasty throat infection you've got there.

Besides, we already returned. Past tense. It's "Haajakin Taalen" now.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Eden Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2014-08-25 19:05:15 UTC
I think at this point in time Caldari Militia and it's mother empire should cut its loses and vacate Black Rise. They have no clear objective in that region.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#144 - 2014-08-25 21:17:36 UTC
Eden Deninard wrote:
I think at this point in time Caldari Militia and it's mother empire should cut its loses and vacate Black Rise. They have no clear objective in that region.


Holding territory. Besides, it's nice to slip in, goose the Feds and slip out, leaving burning wreckage behind us. I'd say it keeps them humble, but that's really not a feasible goal at any point.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-08-25 22:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Eden Deninard wrote:
I think at this point in time Caldari Militia and it's mother empire should cut its loses and vacate Black Rise. They have no clear objective in that region.


The original objective - which I suspect remains - was to colonise and exploit it as the fourth sovereign region of the Caldari State.

Given that CONCORD seemed to consider the State's claim to that region valid enough to accept it as our sacrifice into the CEMWPA, I don't see why that objective would change. Black Rise belongs to the Caldari, no matter what the current front lines of the cereal box war say.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#146 - 2014-08-27 05:37:31 UTC
I just want to know who the hell Kim-baka paid to ghost write this piece. It sure didn't come from her addled mind.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2014-08-27 07:29:22 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I just want to know who the hell Kim-baka paid to ghost write this piece. It sure didn't come from her addled mind.


Eh, Tibus Heth wrote his own speech. Mostly. I think.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Talas Dir
Super Happy Fun Corp
#148 - 2014-08-27 08:26:45 UTC
Eden Deninard wrote:
I think at this point in time Caldari Militia and it's mother empire should cut its loses and vacate Black Rise.


They already have, along with Isoma and Ieyama.

Face it, you Caldari fedos. The Federation has won and conquered your puny militia. You stood no chance against their might. Ahahahahahaha!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2014-08-27 13:13:25 UTC
Talas Dir wrote:
Eden Deninard wrote:
I think at this point in time Caldari Militia and it's mother empire should cut its loses and vacate Black Rise.


They already have, along with Isoma and Ieyama.

Face it, you Caldari fedos. The Federation has won and conquered your puny militia. You stood no chance against their might. Ahahahahahaha!


Tell that to the dead. It really didn't take long for us to realise that if taking and holding space was impractical then charging the Feddies and their pets rent for it was quicker, didn't require defensive deplexing and was better money.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#150 - 2014-08-27 13:31:39 UTC
We didn't want those systems anyway?

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#151 - 2014-08-27 14:13:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Jinari Otsito wrote:
We didn't want those systems anyway?


More like it's become impractical to hold them. And a waste of time to try, quite frankly, when our preferred combat style is to patrol them looking for targets. Do you want to 'orbit butan' for hour upon hour? I don't!

Let the horde of profiteers do that for whichever side they happen to be flying for this month.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#152 - 2014-08-27 14:40:21 UTC
Fair enough. Not my playground to roll around in.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Jace Sarice
#153 - 2014-08-27 14:53:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
We didn't want those systems anyway?


More like it's become impractical to hold them. And a waste of time to try, quite frankly, when our preferred combat style is to patrol them looking for targets. Do you want to 'orbit butan' for hour upon hour? I don't!

Let the horde of profiteers do that for whichever side they happen to be flying for this month.


Frankly, it has always been impractical for a militia to hold systems in my opinion. This is the underlying problem with the proxy conflict. Militias are inherently inefficient and less effective, which makes holding systems largely pointless if there is no end in sight to the conflict. If there was a possibility of it ending, you can bet that people on both sides would come flooding out of the woodwork to be involved. But until then, it is just an incredible waste of time to try to organize such an inefficient force for temporary benefits.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2014-08-27 17:19:20 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Fair enough. Not my playground to roll around in.


There are two ways of making money in the warzone, Jinari. The first is to carefully and dilligently patrol within military complexes, trying frantically to stay awake for hour upon hour.

The second is to climb into your frigate, light the rear end and ride fire to where the green pinatas await. Then you hit them with your Caldari stick of Heiian and Tech Two loot comes spilling out.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Kucial Ghavera
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-08-27 19:28:40 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Fair enough. Not my playground to roll around in.


There are two ways of making money in the warzone, Jinari. The first is to carefully and dilligently patrol within military complexes, trying frantically to stay awake for hour upon hour.

The second is to climb into your frigate, light the rear end and ride fire to where the green pinatas await. Then you hit them with your Caldari stick of Heiian and Tech Two loot comes spilling out.


You missed a fairly common third option that does not require being a member of either militia.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#156 - 2014-08-27 20:52:19 UTC
Kucial Ghavera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Fair enough. Not my playground to roll around in.


There are two ways of making money in the warzone, Jinari. The first is to carefully and dilligently patrol within military complexes, trying frantically to stay awake for hour upon hour.

The second is to climb into your frigate, light the rear end and ride fire to where the green pinatas await. Then you hit them with your Caldari stick of Heiian and Tech Two loot comes spilling out.


You missed a fairly common third option that does not require being a member of either militia.


To be fair, we hunt pirates in the warzone too. More common than Feddies, half the time. But do pirates actually make money? They usually fly ridiculously blingy ships.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Kucial Ghavera
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2014-08-27 20:57:11 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Kucial Ghavera wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Fair enough. Not my playground to roll around in.


There are two ways of making money in the warzone, Jinari. The first is to carefully and dilligently patrol within military complexes, trying frantically to stay awake for hour upon hour.

The second is to climb into your frigate, light the rear end and ride fire to where the green pinatas await. Then you hit them with your Caldari stick of Heiian and Tech Two loot comes spilling out.


You missed a fairly common third option that does not require being a member of either militia.


To be fair, we hunt pirates in the warzone too. More common than Feddies, half the time. But do pirates actually make money? They usually fly ridiculously blingy ships.


The pirates you mention are as much of a source of income for non-infantile pirates as they are for you.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#158 - 2014-08-28 00:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Jace Sarice wrote:

Frankly, it has always been impractical for a militia to hold systems in my opinion. This is the underlying problem with the proxy conflict. Militias are inherently inefficient and less effective, which makes holding systems largely pointless if there is no end in sight to the conflict. If there was a possibility of it ending, you can bet that people on both sides would come flooding out of the woodwork to be involved. But until then, it is just an incredible waste of time to try to organize such an inefficient force for temporary benefits.


The primary actors involved in the present CEWMPA conflict on the side of the Caldari State are Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi, and Lai Dai all three of which represent almost the entirety of the Caldari military-industrial complex.

The primary actors involved in the present CEWMPA conflict on the side of the Gallente Federation are Roden Shipyards, Duvolle Laboratories and CreoDron all three of which represent almost the entirety of the Federal military-industrial complex.

The rhetoric, ideology, and who holds what systems when and where remain superfluous because for that is not the real interest of companies involved in the business of war. The CEWMPA conflict between the State and Federation represents the ideal war for a military industry: a limited conflict in which little has to be risked to ensure demand for armaments.

What do Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi or Lai Dai really lose in the CEWMPA sectors of Black Rise? The region is barely developed comparatively having only been explored in the last two decades and their station orbital assets there remain guaranteed by CONCORD. In fact, in the short term, having the majority of Black Rise a war zone would mean little interest or pressure on the part of other CEP Megacorps to open Black Rise to them. In the long term thus securing the region in the interests of Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi, and Lai Dai alone.

What does the Federal military-industrial complex lose in the CEWMPA sectors of Placid and Essence? Their occupation would serve only to fuel public outrage in the Federation and the necessities of having a perceived credible external threat that would justify the diversion of public funds to companies such as Roden Shipyards and strengthen the political ambitions of the Federation's Hawks and nationalists.

This is a necessary war for both the State and Federation, but not for the cause of any real ideology, but rather that it satisfies certain interests of corporations on both sides of the conflict that wield significant power and influence. It is a mutually advantageous scenario for those that can grasp its benefits, and while I do not believe there will be a conclusion of the conflict in the short term, I can take solace in the fact that its further escalation would be detrimental to the interests of those involved, and those with power, that it should not occur.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Jace Sarice
#159 - 2014-08-28 01:30:34 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

This is a necessary war for both the State and Federation, but not for the cause of any real ideology, but rather that it satisfies certain interests of corporations on both sides of the conflict that wield significant power and influence. It is a mutually advantageous scenario for those that can grasp its benefits, and while I do not believe there will be a conclusion of the conflict in the short term, I can take solace in the fact that its further escalation would be detrimental to the interests of those involved, and those with power, that it should not occur.


Having particular economic benefits does not mean that it is a 'necessary war.' The economic resources involved could theoretically be applied elsewhere and reap similar benefits.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#160 - 2014-08-28 01:56:58 UTC
Jace Sarice wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

This is a necessary war for both the State and Federation, but not for the cause of any real ideology, but rather that it satisfies certain interests of corporations on both sides of the conflict that wield significant power and influence. It is a mutually advantageous scenario for those that can grasp its benefits, and while I do not believe there will be a conclusion of the conflict in the short term, I can take solace in the fact that its further escalation would be detrimental to the interests of those involved, and those with power, that it should not occur.


Having particular economic benefits does not mean that it is a 'necessary war.' The economic resources involved could theoretically be applied elsewhere and reap similar benefits.


If a business model proves viable and provides tangible benefits to a company involved then there is little need for another. If the profits of war outweighs the costs of peace, then war should be pursued. This is true of either of the CEWMPA conflict specifically or the present CONCORD regulated war economy in general.

Kurilaivonen|Concern