These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

To arms!

Author
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#21 - 2014-08-19 14:02:28 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Too long didn't read.

TL;DR: The federation must be destroyed.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#22 - 2014-08-19 14:07:05 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
A rousing call to arms for a cause as rotted as the corpse of the man who launched this war of Caldari aggression. The State built its strength on the mercenary motives of its worst profiteers and its basest charlatans. That, and the intervention of one defeated Nullsec powerbloc after another seeking to lick their wounds and thinking the Gallente to be easy prey.

Now, we see those same nullsec vultures abandoning the pitiful remnants of the State Protectorate, and joining our ranks with turned cloaks and a rack full of warp core stabilizers. Pathetic, really.

I see gallenteans still can't respect neither other cultures, nor other heroes, just because they were fighting for their people, who were oppressed by gallenteans.
And neither gallenteans respect facts, forgetting that Caldari attacked them because of outrageous gallentean racism towards Caldari population on Caldari prime and unability (or lack of desire?) of Gallentean police force to protect Caldari peoples.

A lecture on cultural respect from someone who's very reason for being is the complete destruction of another culture.... Funny world we live in....

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-08-19 14:35:12 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
A lecture on cultural respect from someone who's very reason for being is the complete destruction of another culture.... Funny world we live in....


And yet... She's not wrong. The thing that well-meaning but misguided patriots like Rinai forget, and yes she is a Patriot and one I have some respect for, is that the only thing needed to weld the disparate corporations of the State together into unanimous despite of the Federation is... the Federation.

Because, no, we won't be the Intaki, the Mannar, the Jin-Mei, the countless other races whose names have ceased to be. We want control of our own destiny and freewill to pursue it. This conflict has always been about liberty - but not the shallow form of democracy that the Gallente crusade to bring to our worlds, but our liberty to refuse it.

It drives them insane with frustration. The most powerful and richest empire in the Cluster defied by the youngest and smallest.

In a sense, Diana is right. The Gallente continuously seek to seize the worlds of Black Rise whilst holding onto their own bloated territories. There is a cause there, for those who desperately need one. Sure, Concord ensures that it's a war that can never be won, and their generous pay days mean that the profiteers outnumber the patriots, so that the sides waver and twist continuously, but there are real people out there and real territory changes hands - enough that there's a semblance of purpose.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jace Sarice
#24 - 2014-08-19 14:35:32 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

As I have said before, this proxy war is meaningless. Capsuleers are only fighting over border worlds and even if they take them all, aren't allowed to push the front, and they aren't really assisting the navies since they aren't in a state of open hostilities.


This has, more or less, also become my view. In order to actively participate with any meaning, a capsuleer must either use it simply as a day job, be bored out of their minds, or fueled by enough vapid hate that they can be convinced they are still fighting for something greater than themselves. If a genuine war were to erupt, daily patriots on both sides would pause their entire lives and come rushing out to defend their own. Until then, it is just another day job for those that enjoy it.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#25 - 2014-08-19 14:40:32 UTC
Jace Sarice wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:

As I have said before, this proxy war is meaningless. Capsuleers are only fighting over border worlds and even if they take them all, aren't allowed to push the front, and they aren't really assisting the navies since they aren't in a state of open hostilities.


This has, more or less, also become my view. In order to actively participate with any meaning, a capsuleer must either use it simply as a day job, be bored out of their minds, or fueled by enough vapid hate that they can be convinced they are still fighting for something greater than themselves. If a genuine war were to erupt, daily patriots on both sides would pause their entire lives and come rushing out to defend their own. Until then, it is just another day job for those that enjoy it.


For those of us who seek some connection to the State, it is all we have, Jace. Unless you consider butchering hordes of hapless Gurista in highsec to be, in any way, a favour to the Navy.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jace Sarice
#26 - 2014-08-19 14:50:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

For those of us who seek some connection to the State, it is all we have, Jace. Unless you consider butchering hordes of hapless Gurista in highsec to be, in any way, a favour to the Navy.


I can understand that position. As for me and mine, the connection has begun to be made through business and friendships more than warfare - proto or otherwise. I have been out of the capsule for several months handling the details and logistics of switching my parent Mega. It takes a significant shift in viewpoints to take that step, commit to that decision.

I do not criticize Patriots for their enduring values, merely the tendency to shun those who do not join them in the territorial disputes.

On a side note, it has been a long time. I hope our paths cross sometime soon. Much has transpired.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2014-08-19 14:55:26 UTC
Jace Sarice wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

For those of us who seek some connection to the State, it is all we have, Jace. Unless you consider butchering hordes of hapless Gurista in highsec to be, in any way, a favour to the Navy.


I can understand that position. As for me and mine, the connection has begun to be made through business and friendships more than warfare - proto or otherwise. I have been out of the capsule for several months handling the details and logistics of switching my parent Mega. It takes a significant shift in viewpoints to take that step, commit to that decision.

I do not criticize Patriots for their enduring values, merely the tendency to shun those who do not join them in the territorial disputes.

On a side note, it has been a long time. I hope our paths cross sometime soon. Much has transpired.


I'm glad to hear you doing so well. I well remember the shock of having to transition from Suuvee to Kaalakiota. It's a shock to the system. A lot of things to relearn.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#28 - 2014-08-19 14:56:28 UTC
I've never been part of the militia and yet I feel rather deeply connected to the State. I've set up manufacturing lines, laboratories, hauled staggering amounts of materials and finished products through-out the State and outside of it. I've reached my hand into the waterfall of ISK and taken my share, commensurate with my efforts and investment.

I-RED's gone even further afield, yet held strongly to the State ways and culture and achieved impressive things far beyond what I have. They have a deep and strong connection to the State from what I can tell.

The State Protectorate is far from the only connection to the State, Tuulinen, even if it is rather closer to it than the 24th.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-08-19 15:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
You should consider investing in some Caldari businesses, Pieter. There are always little minnows flitting between the lumbering great sharks of the megacorps. Second Start, Universal NeoTech, PsySpace, New Caldari Engineering, The Biome Project... The little guys that nobody's ever heard of are still doing good work and who knows? With your help they could be major players one day.

To small planetary or civilian corporations like those, the kind of financial resources a capsuleer can bring to bear can make a huge difference. A few wise investements, a share or two, it all goes a long way, and you're directly contributing to the prosperity of the State and the well-being of its citizens.

Or you could donate to a shareholder syndicate and have a say in policy at the larger corporate or megacorporate level. All without noticeably denting your ISK reserves.

Or you could buy a sports team. Good money to be made there.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jace Sarice
#30 - 2014-08-19 15:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jace Sarice
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

I'm glad to hear you doing so well. I well remember the shock of having to transition from Suuvee to Kaalakiota. It's a shock to the system. A lot of things to relearn.


Indeed it is, but I have to admit I have not had a second thought about it. The amount of travel I get to partake in now is almost reason enough even if it were not for the ideological shifts. People seem much less inclined to want to kill me now as well, which takes some getting used to.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#31 - 2014-08-19 15:30:05 UTC
I sank the majority of my liquid assets into picking up Kaalakiota voting stock during the big crash when Heth's misdeeds came to light. Thus far it's a decision that I haven't regretted, since Oritsuu's policies have resulted in a rebounding of the stock price. I also run a couple of battalions of paramilitary troops as a PMC which has actually shown more of a profit than I'd hoped it would.

I'm fairly sure that once Jinari's hurt feelings subside, she'll realise I was talking about being a combat pilot and not an industrialist.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jace Sarice
#32 - 2014-08-19 15:50:22 UTC
It is not often that one should stay too liquid. It did help me during the transition, but for the most part being liquid means you are stagnating. It is better to learn through the loss of assets than stay flaccid in a pool of diminishing liquidity.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#33 - 2014-08-19 15:53:43 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
You clearly don't know me. Hell, ask just about any of the other Caldari who frequent the IGS.


Either you don't understand me, or you're lying to save face.

Allow me to refresh your memory.

Quote:
I do not hate the Caldari. To hate is an irrational act that puts one on a path that ends in the destruction of one's self with far more certainty than the destruction of the object of one's hatred. So I do not fight to see the destruction of the Caldari State, or its People. I fight in defense of the Federation. I fight in the name of its Citizens who face the threat of annihilation with every waking day.

When the Caldari offer peace, when they recind their threat of devastation against Gallente homes, I will welcome that day. Until then, the State will pay the price for their tyranny in blood.

Excerpt: Personal Log; Rinai Vero


Perhaps you should keep such vitriol off your public profile if you're going to protest claims of warmongering nationalism, hmmm?


I'm supposed to be what? Ashamed that I have said publicly and repeatedly that when the Caldari offer peace I will meet them in friendship? Until then I meet them in space.

I am a patriot. I'm also proud. I don't go around calling for the destruction of the State or the Caldari people. I don't call Caldari culture evil and corrupting.

Save face? To hell with that. My public profile is public for a reason. As is my combat record. Your slander is easily disproven by even a cursory look through my public statements. Or, as I said, simply asking around.

So, again: you clearly don't know me.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-08-19 16:00:51 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
When the Caldari offer peace I will meet them in friendship. Until then I meet them in space.


Peace isn't a unilateral process. You'll achieve it faster by extending the olive branch yourself, rather than by waiting for the other side to extend their own. Sure, it takes some courage to do so when there's a real possibility that they'll take the branch and then beat you with it, but as far as know, the feeling that courage is something to be admired is quite a widespread one in all cultures.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jace Sarice
#35 - 2014-08-19 16:07:17 UTC
Capsuleers in the militia do realize they have no decision making power, right? They can offer nothing, extend nothing. They either participate or they do not.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#36 - 2014-08-19 16:17:36 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
[I'm supposed to be what? Ashamed that I have said publicly and repeatedly that when the Caldari offer peace I will meet them in friendship? Until then I meet them in space.


To freshen up your memory, a first, major step towards peace has been made, the whole dealing around Caldari Prime shows where there is a will, there's a way.

Ishukone offered peace, the Federation accepted. While this doesn't mean peace with all of the State, it has to begin somewhere. We're not one hegemonic bloc as so many assume, we are the State, 8 megacorps that each follow their own path, create their own diplomacy and lead their own security.
The acceptance of Ishukone's offer despite the Pendulum war shows a sign that perhaps, at long last, the Federation begins to understand, that to have peace, they have to recognize the 8 Mega's as souvereign entities that work together in what is called the State, a 'federation of megacorps' if you will.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#37 - 2014-08-19 16:21:30 UTC
I have been very pleased with the peace process so far, and hope to see it continue. Both sides have made praiseworthy efforts.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-08-19 16:23:43 UTC
True enough, Jace. If I thought militia service was worth a damn, I'd be involved myself.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#39 - 2014-08-19 16:31:37 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm fairly sure that once Jinari's hurt feelings subside, she'll realise I was talking about being a combat pilot and not an industrialist.


No hurt feelings. Just pointing out that there are plenty of ways to be connected to the State without partaking in the playground war. I-RED has many combat pilots, as an example.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#40 - 2014-08-19 16:32:12 UTC
Rinai Vero wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:


When the Caldari offer peace, when they recind their threat of devastation against Gallente homes, I will welcome that day. Until then, the State will pay the price for their tyranny in blood.

Excerpt: Personal Log; Rinai Vero


I don't go around calling for the destruction of the State or the Caldari people. I don't call Caldari culture evil and corrupting.




Within the same breath contradictions abound. This must be some of that legendary Gallentean double-speak I hear so much about.