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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#701 - 2014-08-20 05:04:41 UTC
isn't one reasonable purpose of the direct reporting of the ETC (from MD) ensuring that a person didn't acquire an ETC for ISK from another player, and is turning around to make a quick ISK profit through SOMER?

If this offer was open to anyone who presents an ETC, I could acquire ETCs from someone who was unaware, and make a flat, guaranteed profit on as many ETCs as I could find... instantly and continuously. for that scenario, isn't the direct link with MD understandable. (...?)

Quote:
Players who want more ISK value from their PLEX than they could get selling it by themselves will be encouraged to spend money on PLEX, since they are guaranteed the best price in the Eve universe

I still see room in this for an honest (albeit ignorant and naive) desire to promote PLEX (that wouldn't be purchased otherwise) and his site -first and foremost- with the referral benefit from MD being a secondary benefit of his site's popularity (exactly what a referrer is good for).

I... personally... don't see evidence solid enough to prosecute. or persecute. either SOMER or CCP.

:-/

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#702 - 2014-08-20 05:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Cameron Freerunner wrote:
Last post before bed: we went through this a year ago. Word for word. They knew or should have known full well who and what they were dealing with. This is EVE for God's sake. The scam should always be foremost in your mind.


There's a practice in the legal profession called judge shopping. You file a bunch of identical lawsuits and see which is assigned to the most favorable judge.

You get sanctioned for trying to get an unfair advantage, it's not considered the court's fault for not catching you sooner.

Just because Somer found a favorable judge doesn't mean he is or should be immune to sanction.

But this is mostly moot, since he seems to have decided to upset the table and go home if he can't keep selling ISK.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cherry Yeyo
Doomheim
#703 - 2014-08-20 05:11:53 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I assume Somer's EVE account has several tens of trillions of ISK on it.

Now that it cannot be used for veiled RMT, has anyone started a betting pool on whether this will be sold to open RMTers?

Given the volumes of isk that they deal with- hes known he has eyes on his account for years, thats why the only way he can cash out of EVE is through a CCP-blessed affiliate program, he just got greedy and tried to push everyone else out.

If he dumped his liquid isk on a typical black market buyer it would be instantly confiscated. Thats why he quit.

.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#704 - 2014-08-20 05:12:06 UTC
Thatt Guy wrote:
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.

This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.

To Somer:
Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.


I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#705 - 2014-08-20 05:13:16 UTC
the momentum of this is pretty scary. I feel bad for the guy for the possibility that his intentions were good. you have to admit, this much attention is scary in itself, and it's the kind of thing that would keep you up at night if you have a conscience.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#706 - 2014-08-20 05:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Andski wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.

This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.

To Somer:
Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.


I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.


Turns out most illegal immigrants pay their federal taxes. As do drug dealers (they learned that from Capone).

Seriously, never not pay taxes.

Rain6637 wrote:
the momentum of this is pretty scary. I feel bad for the guy for the possibility that his intentions were good. you have to admit, this much attention is scary in itself, and it's the kind of thing that would keep you up at night if you have a conscience.


Somer's Proposal wrote:
Justification: Blink provides no extra ISK or bonus Blink credit for buying through the link. Instead, we make it easy to sell your PLEX and get your ISK quickly, no matter where you are-- no Jita alt required. This is a service, in keeping with CCP's new guidelines that ETC affiliate link rewards should be service-oriented.


When you lie in the justification for your proposal, you pretty firmly shove good intentions out the window. This is from the document he released in his *defense*

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
NotTheSmartestCookie
Shooting Blues Everyday
Gimme Da Loot
#707 - 2014-08-20 05:28:02 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Hey guys,

We’re aware that SOMER Blink has posted a message to state that their services are shutting down.

We’re also well aware that a lot of members of the community have enjoyed playing SOMER Blink over the course of the last four years, and it’s very unfortunate and saddening to see a source of enjoyment for our players closing its doors.

In the same respect however, we believe that the promotion that caused this issue was not representative of the original proposal that was brought to CCP.

Given that we’re unable to provide reimbursements as per section 1.3 of our reimbursement policy, it’s good to see that SOMER Blink is shutting down in a controlled and stable manner, and that players will be able to withdraw their ISK and / or assets.

While we will be monitoring this closely, we have no intention of interfering with this process, as we feel that allowing players to be able to have their assets and / or ISK returned by SOMER Blink of their own free will is an important part of bringing this situation to a solid resolution.

We’ll have more information for you guys tomorrow, once myself and CCP Leeloo get back into the office and speak to the relevant people, including the CSM.

This remains a top priority for the community team, those involved in other parts of CCP, and the CSM.

Thanks for your patience while we work on bringing this to a close.





Is this where we complain about the sexism inherent in the system when all EVE players are addressed as "Hey guys" and "you guys". Is it really necessary to exclude 5% of the player base?

Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.

Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.

Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#708 - 2014-08-20 05:30:19 UTC
SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.

people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?

if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.

even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.

I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#709 - 2014-08-20 05:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.

This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.

To Somer:
Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.



Yep.

I assume Somer's EVE account has several tens of trillions of ISK on it.

Now that it cannot be used for veiled RMT, has anyone started a betting pool on whether this will be sold to open RMTers?


There is the possibility that the Somer account may be frozen while under investigation to trace previous transactions and prevent new ones. I believe CCP Falcon said something along the lines of 'this might take a while' regarding that aspect earlier, so assuming that CCP is investigating with what I understand are standard procedures, the character itself may be temporarily banned and any liquid on that account will be locked down. CCP is also closely monitoring as Somer reimburses it's players, although they cannot and will not interfere if Somer decides to just completely **** on the community and take all the isk, so there are definitely eyes on any active corporate accounts and traditional *redacted* would be instantly spotted. Considering the amounts of isk we're dealing with here, if Somer tried to go that route, he might sell a couple hundred or thousand $$$ worth before being finally and completely outright banned.

Seems unlikely that any of that isk is going to be translated into IRL monies now... hence why Somer decided to shut down the shop Twisted
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#710 - 2014-08-20 05:36:51 UTC
Nice twist!
Somer's gambling site was no charity at all, he did it for real money as in $$. That is absolutly clear now and anybody trying to spin it any other way, well delusional is the only nice word comes to mind.

@CCP, please do not stop any investigation regarding RMT and especially do not stop any punishment aka banning for RMT, Somer shutting down the site himself reeks like evading any consequences coming his way.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#711 - 2014-08-20 05:37:04 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
*redacted*


No need to beat around the bush. Call it what it is.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#712 - 2014-08-20 05:37:55 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.

people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?

if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.

even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.

I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you?


"having a lot of ISK entitles you to sell it for real money" ~ rain6637

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#713 - 2014-08-20 05:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I think I answered my own question. if he opened up the ETC purchasing program to anyone with an ETC, that would be a promotion of CCP's business and ETC/PLEX sales in good faith.

...ok. like he said he would. but then didn't.

OK. I'm slow. I swear I'm just trying to be objective about this (Andski :-P )

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#714 - 2014-08-20 05:40:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ohkewl wrote:
That guy pays his freelance writers in isk

Which is allowed

Ohkewl wrote:
and pretty much lives of the money generated by the site he places the articles on. If that's not a business idk what is.

That money comes from ad revenue. Are you seriously suggesting that EVE websites not be allowed to run ads? Because that's absurd.


The issue isn't the ad revenue. The issue is that you can trade isk for RL labor and services. This lets you make profit off of the labor that you otherwise would have had to pay for.

Imagine that I ran a software company and had a ton of isk. Based on the current rules, I could totally pay people isk to write code for me, which I then sell on the market. Mittani does that, but instead pays people isk for writing and webhosting.

Somer just wasn't clever enough to pull off a scheme like this and resorted to direct isk/plex for cash transactions.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#715 - 2014-08-20 05:42:14 UTC
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#716 - 2014-08-20 05:43:18 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
SOMER's games are consistent in generating more ISK than he puts into them.

people in this thread have pointed out SOMER is not a charity... so outside of the closed loop of SOMER games that simply generate more ISK, what do you suppose he should do with his ISK besides finding reasons to give it away and promoting his site and [CCP's revenue via] PLEX in the process?

if you don't think of something, the ISK would only accumulate.

even if SOMER became an ETC reseller, that still leaves the question of what to do with that ISK outside the closed loop of SOMER games.

I can't think of anything that makes more sense than what he's done... can you?

Nope. The *redacted* angle is the only one that makes sense. Except Eve players are clever and saw right through that **** Blink

As much as Somer likes to mock the wider player base within the safe confines of his channel's echo chamber, we're not quite the dumb cattle he thinks we are. He might've been able to fool a couple of people here and there, gather a cult of true believer followers, and find the right CCP employee to run his scheme by, but at the end of the day there was simply no way people wouldn't really see this for the cash grab it was.

I think hubris brought Somer down. He thought he could pull a fast one again after getting away with it last year, he got greedy and arrogant. He thought he was untouchable. But as we've seen today, nobody is too big to fail in New Eden.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

I don't think many people will miss Blink after a time, they didn't offer anything particularly special or unique. Existing competitor sites will expand, new sites will emerge, and the playerbase as a whole will profit as a result.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#717 - 2014-08-20 05:44:28 UTC
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#718 - 2014-08-20 05:44:46 UTC
Andski wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.

This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.

To Somer:
Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.


I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.


huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#719 - 2014-08-20 05:47:08 UTC
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#720 - 2014-08-20 05:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
Ohkewl wrote:
Andski wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
So since Somer can't use Eve to print RL money anymore, he closes up shop.

This should tell you all you need to know. He never cared for the community, or the players or Eve, just blinded by the almighty dollar.

To Somer:
Take your ball and go home then, may the IRS bless you with an audit.


I agree that SOMER closing shop is highly indicative that he only pursued RL profits, but I doubt the guy is dumb enough to evade taxes in the US. The Iron Bank (sorry, IRS) will have its due.


huh, and The Mittani isnt?? Didnt he quit his RL job so he could focus more on his RMT empire? He lives from his RMT, while paying his employees with ISK.


The Mittani doesn't engage in *redacted*

But this isn't even about The Mittani. Go grind that axe somewhere else.