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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

First post First post
Author
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#441 - 2014-08-19 20:29:32 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
CCP Falcon and CCP Leeloo have been very open to our questions and the questions that we have brought forward from the community starting from last night.

I've recently been asked about accounts used for businesses and what account usage qualifies as a business reference this part of the EULA:

Quote:
"Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited."


Quality. This is why I voted for you [and Psychotic Monk lol]
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#442 - 2014-08-19 20:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lallante
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/Plexcodes/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell codes which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#443 - 2014-08-19 20:30:30 UTC
Wow. What a mess.

No bonus rooms? Songs to sing? Anything? Blink

.

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.

De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#444 - 2014-08-19 20:35:05 UTC
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.


Is this the kind of attitude we can expect from the community manager going forward? Shouldn't the community manager at least to pretend to care about what the community thinks?

And I love how you opted to answer this among all the outstanding questions in this thread. You clearly have the communities best in mind.

Edit: The back pating post would be ok and well deserved. If there was any actual progress.

I hope so - it would be a return to days of old when the Dev's told the whiny brats off every once in awhile.

I salute our non-**** taking overlords.


Oh yes, customers should just shut up and pay their salary. Thank you for your input.


You do have another option. By all means, feel free to exercise it.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
#445 - 2014-08-19 20:38:24 UTC
Lallante wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.


Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#446 - 2014-08-19 20:39:02 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
Tippia wrote:
NFain wrote:
However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop.
Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.

Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...?


I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours.


A question is not rumor. Past internal actions within CCP has had serious in and out of game consequences. This yet-another-round of baffling events naturally brings up these serious questions. I would be amazed if CCP IA is not a part of this as well right now.

De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#447 - 2014-08-19 20:42:08 UTC
NFain wrote:
I'm still slightly concerned on what's actually being investigated and what there is to investigate.

From my understanding
1) legality of the issue via EULA/TOS
2) correspondence between CCP VP & Somer

However wasn't this issue handled a little more than a year ago? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290929

Or will these answers come in due time?

It was.

And then this happened making it the second time Some and Markee have been dragged over the coals for this kind of thing. Now, were this any other player, they wouldn't have gotten a second chance - bans would have been distributed and that would have been the end of the matter.

If they get a third chance, things are going to turn ugly very quickly. How ugly will be largely determined by why they got that third chance.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Align Planet1
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#448 - 2014-08-19 20:44:00 UTC
Annie Getyourgun wrote:
Lallante wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.


Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-etc-is-dead-long-live-the-plex-activation-code
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#449 - 2014-08-19 20:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lallante
Annie Getyourgun wrote:
Lallante wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.


Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)


No. You can call them GTCs (the old name) or call them "redeemable plex activation codes" (the new name), but they arent plex they are a one time redeemable code.
Annie Getyourgun
Snow Leopard Situs
#450 - 2014-08-19 20:54:51 UTC
Align Planet1 wrote:
Annie Getyourgun wrote:
Lallante wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.


Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)


http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-etc-is-dead-long-live-the-plex-activation-code


Yes thank you for that link. I was trying to avoid any embarrassment regarding lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. Blink
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#451 - 2014-08-19 20:56:55 UTC
Annie Getyourgun wrote:
[Yes thank you for that link. I was trying to avoid any embarrassment regarding lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. Blink


Its just a name change really. Its still a code, it still is exchangable for game time through plex.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#452 - 2014-08-19 20:59:06 UTC
Lallante wrote:
Annie Getyourgun wrote:
Lallante wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
Another thing I was just thinking about, if Sommerblink are buying the plex that players are buying from Markee Dragon, is Markee Dragon buying these plex from Sommerblink at a greatly reduced price to resell back to the players?

In this scenario CCP suffers greatly in loss of Plex sales because sommerblink and markee dragon will just keep recycling the same plex over and over again.


This was a prime suspicion of mine too, and is not the case.




It's pretty embaressing for both you and CCP that you would publically admit that, as it shows a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of how PLEX/GTCs/MD work. I do hope you were disabused of that notion BEFORE you started posting all the "I agree with the mob view on this" posts, because representing CCP as you do, posting such things without even understanding the framework in which the arguments lie, let alone the actual facts, would be pretty negligent.

For those still wondering: MD dont buy or sell plexs, they sell GTCs which can be (one time) converted into plexs. Its only after that conversion that blink buys the plex from the player. Nothing can be "sold back" to MD for resale.


Actually, no one sells GTC's any longer. It is all done in PLEX (Or new accounts that include small perks and the first month of play through a CD key.)


No. You can call them GTCs (the old name) or call them "redeemable plex activation codes" (the new name), but they arent plex they are a one time redeemable code.


Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#453 - 2014-08-19 21:06:31 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:

Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.


Well, since Falcon said that's not the case you can put it to bed now and find another conspiracy to champion.

Mr Epeen Cool
CCP Falcon
#454 - 2014-08-19 21:21:51 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:

Of course they are a one time redeemable code, but was sommerblink buying back the code, or making the player redeem his code and transfer a plex via contract to sommerblink? If sommerblink was simply buying the plex code, this could be used over and over again.


Well, since Falcon said that's not the case you can put it to bed now and find another conspiracy to champion.

Mr Epeen Cool


I like your shades. I need to get me some of those.

Cool

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

CroisisCZ
Anoikis Exploration
#455 - 2014-08-19 21:25:44 UTC
There seems to be several opinions about what is RMT and what is not so could someone from CCP please make a clear statement?

EXAMPLE 1: CCP has a contract with MD/SC/Amazon/Santa Claus, those people sell GTCs (PLEX activation codes or whatever it is called now) that CCP provides to them, CCP gets payed, reseller gets a cut. No biggie, normal business model, there is no ingame connection or benefits, therefore no danger of RMT.

EXAMPLE 2: This first tier reseller decides to "subcontract" those codes provided by CCP on the similar terms so CCP gets payed, tier 1 gets his cut and shares it with tier 2 subcontractor. If this Subcontractor has no affiliation with the game itself, there should be no problem (if CCP sanctions subcontracting at all ofc).

EXAMPLE 3: This tier 2 subcontractor is an active player... this is where things get problematic IMHO. As long as this referral does not come with any "catch" or bonus from the provider, things should be OK...

EXAMPLE 4: There is a "catch", "bonus", "advantage" or benefit of some kind. ISK, ships, modules or basically any ingame items mean RMT to me. C/D?

EXAMPLE 5: This "bonus" comes in a form of third party service connected to the game. For example you get access to a special section of a website, get better/more/faster information, special functions etc... Is this RMT? IMHO it should be. C/D?

EXAMPLE 6: This "bonus" comes in a form of third party service or items not connected to EVE Online... For example If you use my referral code, I will send you NSFW photos of my girlfriend / teacup with my logo etc... Is this RMT? IMHO not but shady nonetheless. C/D?

As far as promos go, they are ofc a common thing these days but they should be limited to tier 1 contractors, problem solved. Or even better, just dont allow your partners to subcontract GTCs and none of this will ever happen again.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#456 - 2014-08-19 21:39:17 UTC
CroisisCZ wrote:
a clear statement

This would only benefit those that would abuse the system and hide behind technicalities. If it remotely smells of RMT, stay away from it or expect a hammer from the sky. A grey area and uncertainty is necessary.
CroisisCZ
Anoikis Exploration
#457 - 2014-08-19 21:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: CroisisCZ
Abrazzar wrote:

This would only benefit those that would abuse the system and hide behind technicalities. If it remotely smells of RMT, stay away from it or expect a hammer from the sky. A grey area and uncertainty is necessary.

I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now. Come on, EVE has a very special community and people here just love to take pitchforks and torches when there is a chance for a good witch hunt. Refusing to make a clear statement that everyone caught with their hands dirty will be dealt with is just adding fuel to the fire.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#458 - 2014-08-19 21:59:28 UTC
CroisisCZ wrote:

I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now.


**** storm?

You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine.

Mr Epeen Cool
Boom McCondor
Lotek Academy
#459 - 2014-08-19 22:02:33 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
Tippia wrote:
NFain wrote:
However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop.
Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.

Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...?


I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours.


A question is not rumor. Past internal actions within CCP has had serious in and out of game consequences. This yet-another-round of baffling events naturally brings up these serious questions. I would be amazed if CCP IA is not a part of this as well right now.


Technically this is a sentence fragment with a question mark at the end, neither a complete thought nor an actual question. Just the thing that rumors seem to start from, in other words.
Analeesa
Perkone
Caldari State
#460 - 2014-08-19 22:05:02 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
CroisisCZ wrote:

I am aware of the fact that CCP uses this argument but it also means that people like Somer will keep trying to outsmart them and keep looking for loopholes. Add to it how easily was he able to get away with his last scheme and you are set for a s**tstorm we see now.


**** storm?

You must be new. You obviously have no idea what a real forum **** storm looks like. This is a mild whine.

Mr Epeen Cool



In response to your signature;
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just wasted 3 of them by signing your ******* post when we can all see your name on the side. Congratulations, dumbass!

Cool