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Community Concerns Regarding SOMERblink

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Author
Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
#381 - 2014-08-19 18:19:32 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
Tippia wrote:
NFain wrote:
However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop.
Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.

Unless Somer is kicking back some profits within CCP...?


I strongly advise you don't start throwing mud for fun. There's enough broo-ha already without starting wild new rumours.


CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#382 - 2014-08-19 18:20:32 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


Mike drunken recall does not count. As for your sober memory I will draw that into question. J/K


question all you want my sober memory. you may also want to interview unicorns and dragons. same chances of finding them

m


Mike drunken recall best recall. The eve gods saved me from being elected. Could you imagine me and you drunk sitting i n those meetings about SOMER.

BLACK; (YELLS) OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

Mike: Com down little buddy. Pour me a drink and lets talk this thru.

BLACK; Damit Mike some one has to die.

Mike: Your right but lets cut his balls off first and let him bleed. Then OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!!!!

BLACK: Careful Mike ALI is listening shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#383 - 2014-08-19 18:21:12 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
NFain wrote:
However I would like to point out that it was made very clear roughly a year ago when this same very thing was ruled to stop.
Definitely, which is why the current situation is so baffling.

To me it seems a lot like what I did when I was a kid and my mother said no to something. I asked my dad (or vice versa) in the hopes that they hadn't talked about it.

That's a horribly apt description. What?
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2014-08-19 18:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Boogi
I was happy that CCP Falcon said 'nobody is too big to fail in Eve'. If Somer falls, other competitive sites will emerge. If Markee falls, other ETC sellers will pick up the slack.

Somer doesn't actually offer anything of real value to the community, anybody can start their own casino.

Now lets just hope that Somer, if found guilty, is treated how other offenders would be.
Lauresh Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2014-08-19 18:21:58 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Lauresh Thellere wrote:
Argus Sorn wrote:
Lauresh Thellere wrote:

Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.


I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic.


This CSM wasn't elected a year ago.


Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo.


I'm well aware of what the poster meant but thanks for pointing out that my reading comprehension is poor simply because I chose to ignore an argument made that would start a pissing match.
Karra Masamune
Intelligence Operation NetCorp
#386 - 2014-08-19 18:22:29 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?

How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?



Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.



Which means all they can do is tell each other how awesome they are.

Great isn't it ☺


You're damn right I'm going to give credit to a group of people who volunteer their time to assist us at times like this, and take time out of their family lives to be present in meetings that are called early morning or late evening sometimes with under an hour of notice.

I'll give them all the encouragement I can to continue to support both CCP and the Community the way that they are. That's what they're elected to do, and I'd like the people who voted them in to know they're being fairly represented.

If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple.



Why credit them for something they wanted to do in first place? I mean sure it can be inconvenience to make time for something as unexpected as this, but isn't that a part of being CSM in first place?

As far as I understand being CSM ins't a privilege where you get cool title on forum, it's extra responsibility where you invest your time to make game better.

On subject on topic, if you can prove RMT people involved should be banned as that would normally happen. On other hand things like this take time and most games aren't patient so they will rage, troll and demand something to be done now. I just hope that we will get more then generic answer in lines of "Actions have been taken again people involved, bla bla bla" as this could impact on eve economy based on how many people are using somerblink.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#387 - 2014-08-19 18:22:32 UTC
It looks like there's blood on the dancefloor again.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2014-08-19 18:24:35 UTC
Sketchy Bob wrote:

CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.


They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate.

Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready.
Your statement could not have been more wrong.
POS Trader
Merchants of Lore
#389 - 2014-08-19 18:24:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
POS Trader wrote:
Unless CCP stops ALL referral money, a business transaction, then this situation is unavoidable. SOMER does not directly exchange ISK -> $$$. What happens is he's incentivizing purchasing of PLEX through his referral program by paying more ISK for the PLEX than market price in Jita. This way he's losing ISK, and supposedly gaining *some* additional revenue. How much additional revenue? That's up to debate.


buy this rock for $200 and i'll buy a piece of trit from you for 15 billion isk

that way i'm losing money this can't possibly be against the rules right


He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program.

As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules.
Josef Djugashvilis
#390 - 2014-08-19 18:26:27 UTC
If indeed it determined that it is a scam -RMT operation by SOMERBlink, at least it is worthy of Eve Online.

This is not a signature.

LT Alter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#391 - 2014-08-19 18:29:25 UTC
Honestly I'm quite pleased to see the constant and open talk from CCP and CSM, I hope this will continue even after this latest issue is fixed. Also, regardless of somer's motivation for doing this or if he thought it was right or not. Somer is at fault for not discussing it with CCP directly before going forward. There is no possible way he was oblivious to the fact that he was receving money for isk.

My opinion on the matter is that Somer should receive a substantial punishment for actively being a part of RMT activities, after all any other player who RMTs would be punished substantially. Though I hope the Somer Blink website remains active, not for anyone's benefit other than the communities though. However it obviously needs to be ensured no RMT can be practiced through the use of the website.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#392 - 2014-08-19 18:29:56 UTC
I wonder if EVEBet has any action on the outcome of this
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#393 - 2014-08-19 18:33:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
There's no need to stop referral money. They just have to be very clear that you are not allowed to incentivise a real-life transaction of any kind with an in-game transaction of any kind (or vice versa).

And by “be very clear” I mean, “they have always been very clear so just shout it louder and don't accept any kind of silly work-arounds”. You are entirely free to do a transaction that involves 1 trit on one end and 1bn ISK on the other without any repercussions. You are also entirely free to engage in cash kickback schemes and ad revenue and whathaveyou to support the out-of-game efforts of other players, such as server hosting and bandwidth fees and the like. It's when you mix the two, when you use one as a quid-pro-quo for the other, that you dive headlong into the putrid ditch of RMT.


I wonder how hard it would be to formalize this into a set of common arrangements which are OK: In-game remuneration for intellectual property derivative of CCP IP for use by in-game groups and services; publications or services accessible by anyone freely, but with optional or non-blocking revenue generators (ads, tip jars, affiliate links), that sort of thing. That way the common and legitimate cases are covered clearly, not as discretionary exceptions, and anything that isn't included at best requires review. Anyone getting impatient with the legal team should be held at arm's length; everyone knows that lawyers move at their own stately pace, and there's no good in-game reason to rush them, or (certainly!) to try to make an end run around them.

(I know my language is somewhat imprecise. This isn't my bailiwick. I am not, and I have never been, a lawyer.)

I am disinclined to any kind of mercy in no small part because of the wheedling and the barefaced attempt to pull the wool over the VP's eyes with that slippery sales pitch. That's not the way you treat anyone you respect.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Pitchfork Vendor
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#394 - 2014-08-19 18:34:04 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
If indeed it determined that it is a scam -RMT operation by SOMERBlink, at least it is worthy of Eve Online.

It's not scam-RMT. It's genuine RMT.

Pitchforks! Pitchforks! Get your pitchforks here!

Sketchy Bob
Mother caking corp
#395 - 2014-08-19 18:34:35 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:

CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.


They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate.

Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready.
Your statement could not have been more wrong.


They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information.

Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#396 - 2014-08-19 18:37:32 UTC
POS Trader wrote:
He said, click the link and buy the PLEX from CCP (or some third party) and I'll give you some ISK for clicking my link. No rocks, or trit involved or some other useless intermediaries involved. No one pays him $$$ except the referral program.

As I said, either cancel ALL referrals (which obviously includes Amazon), or don't. And if you don't, then what SOMER does should not be against rules.
…and you're still missing the quid-pro-quo between in-game and out-of-game transactions.
That is what sets Somer (and RMT in general) apart. It is why Somer is against the rules (and yes, I'm stating that emphatically without waiting for the result of the inquiry since we already know it is from last year's débâcle).

It is also completely unrelated to the workings of referral kickbacks so cancelling referrals would be laughably wide of the target.
KaRa DaVuT
AVCI KONSEYI
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#397 - 2014-08-19 18:37:34 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:
Am I the only one getting annoyed that the only times CSM members or DEV's post is to pat each others backs and tell the world how awesome the other team is?

How about some actual information or response to the legitimate critic in this thread?



Please bear in mind that the CSM are bound by NDA on this. Until CCP releases information, we're not free to speak about it.


With all my respect, instead of transparency If CCP acts this with NDA, then I have doubts of their trustworthness...

We will see. But thank you for your short info.

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.

Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#398 - 2014-08-19 18:41:35 UTC
Lauresh Thellere wrote:
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Lauresh Thellere wrote:
Argus Sorn wrote:
Lauresh Thellere wrote:

Sigh, I wrote this cool response about how you're being a **** to people who are exhausted from working their asses off the last day or two and have had little to no sleep but the forums ate it.


I will never support being a complete jerk to anyone - but the people who are working their asses off are only doing it because they didn't take appropriate action a year ago. So while they have my respect for their current work, you have to pardon some of us if we aren't exactly sympathetic.


This CSM wasn't elected a year ago.


Good thing the CSM has no say in what punishments Somer should have received a year ago. Especially given it's clear he's referring to CCP's actions. Reading comprehension yo.


I'm well aware of what the poster meant but thanks for pointing out that my reading comprehension is poor simply because I chose to ignore an argument made that would start a pissing match.


Thank you for admitting you ignored what he said and made an inane comment unrelated to what he was saying. It takes an adult to do that.
KaRa DaVuT
AVCI KONSEYI
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#399 - 2014-08-19 18:42:42 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
KaRa DaVuT wrote:

Yes it is blurry in a legal term. But in legality, think simple. It works as action-reaction-cosequence chain.

So simply If you are using your account as part of a profit related with the out-of-game currency/ıngame currency trade, It can be count as Business. The term business means gaining a profit from a setup or an activity so, If you are gaining profit and it includes some Illegalites against the bigger rule structure where you are running your business (In this case it is the EVE and EULA is its set of rules ) then it is illegal.

I can understand your approach as you are really neutral to this. and I admire your dedication and poinf of view, hovewer I cannot simply ignore the fact of this thing as its Illegal in all levels.

We will see how much it goes deeper and its not the first time that we see thing like that, adn it seems not the last one.


Fair point. However, I'd clarify one term you used. By "illegal" I think you mean "a violation of the policy".


Yes. Thats the right word.

we will see what will happen in the long run. But based on the CCP's silence and the coming information, they will hurt themselves at the end of this....

Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your heart and on your mind... And what you decide to do every day, makes you - not your race - a good man - or not.

Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#400 - 2014-08-19 18:45:59 UTC
Sketchy Bob wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Sketchy Bob wrote:

CCP could easily stop a lot of the rumors by saying something. But we have yet to hear anything.


They have said a ton. They have let us know they are looking into it, and they have kept us informed. Within a few hours they will update us. Short of doing it all in front of a webcam there's not much more they could do to communicate.

Just let them sort it out, and they will tell us when they are ready.
Your statement could not have been more wrong.


They have told us 2 things. That they are looking into it and "we had a meeting and we are now going to lunch". That is not keeping us up to date with any relevant information.

Do they see it as RMT? Was CCP's sales or legal team involved (in giving somer approval, not getting payed off that is too much tinfoilery)? They should not need to have meetings for days to figure those 2 out.


Generally, when doing an investigation, people wait until they have the full information before releasing it. A novel concept I know.