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SOE ships for pvp rather than exploration
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-08-24 20:00:27 UTC
Stratios is very nice...
to get the full potential you have to fit faction/deadspace mix of modules.
You can very well get over 700 dps using drones and pulse lasers....I even saw a fit with beam lasers but I would not personally fit them.
Double web, target painter and send the geckos :-)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-08-24 20:03:14 UTC
Nick Starkey wrote:
Here's an overview of SOE ships:

frigate - it sucks. It's the only (non LE) covert cloak capable frigate with actual combat ability, and its bonuses couldn't be any worse. The damage is very underwhelming (around 120dps) since you only have 1 (or possiblly 0) gun slots, it lacks a drone damage bonus and the low slots are competing for both tank and damage output. You can get some solid dualrep setups with a cap booster and a web but you can't help but think why spend 80m on a ship that is subpar to just about any assault frigate out there. It's also worse than a covert ops for what hacking is concerned (cloaking delay bonus, lack of mid slots, slower warp speed, less bonus to hacking). The target decloaking delay also makes it futile to try and gank other people with it since the only things that you can lock fast enough before warping off are going to be cruisers and above which you are unable to kill anyway. It's only really good for ganking other explorers when they aren't paying attention.

cruiser - absolutely amazing. It's the hardest hitting cloaky ganker of the game, even more than a proteus and can mount a comparable tank to a T3 hull. It has an abudance of slots and solid damage output with geckos and medium pulses (which you can replace for blasters for a lulzy 750+ DPS). You can also PVE quite well with it but a tengu or an ishtar is more cost efficient.

battleship - goddamn awful, expensive and useless. it's a design failure that tries to be a lot of things at once but fails at every single one of them. Terrible RR range, awful capacitor stability, extremly slow, has a bunch of useless bonuses like hacking strength (lol) and is ridiculously expensive. Its upcomming buffs are only breaking the ship into more roles which it will continue failing at.

tl;dr stratios is baller, the rest sucks.

I have to say I STRONGLY DISAGREE regarding the frigate.
I have not been able to test the Nestor yet due to the high prize.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-08-24 22:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nick Starkey
Fenris Orion wrote:
Nick Starkey wrote:
Here's an overview of SOE ships:

frigate - it sucks.....The target decloaking delay also makes it futile to try and gank other people with it since the only things that you can lock fast enough before warping off are going to be cruisers and above which you are unable to kill anyway.

cruiser - absolutely amazing. It's the hardest hitting cloaky ganker of the game, even more than a proteus and can mount a comparable tank to a T3 hull. It has an abudance of slots and solid damage output with geckos and medium pulses (which you can replace for blasters for a lulzy 750+ DPS).


There is so much fail in this comment. First of all, the 6 second targetting delay is offset by the Asteros relatively high scan res, and most people are watching d-scan for threats, not expecting something to decloak right next to them. You'll catch the vast majority of what you decide to engage simply because you're not what they're expecting. Second, I've taken a Moa down pretty easily, put top damage on a Hawk, taken several T1 frigates and destroyers solo, and provided initial tackle on an Ashimu and an Ishtar. All but the Minmitar AF's are slowww. Frankly, you shouldn't be brawling in a drone boat, especially a frigate, when you can selectively engage things that can't hit you in a 20km orbit. This gives you all kinds of target opportunities.

Also, the Stratios does seem to be a fantastic ship, but you will never touch the tank/dps combination of the Proteus in one. A "lightly" tanked cloaky Proteus setup for maximum gank can do >700dps and still have >85,000ehp. [Edit: it does do more dps with geckos than with sentries.]

I think those that doubt the Astero either haven't actually tried to make it work, or didn't know what they were doing and failed hard, once, and didn't try again. No, it doesn't have the ridiculous 200% damage bonus that the pirate frigates get, but it has the ultimate target-selection option that the Covert-Ops cloak provides.

Worked up an armor repping kite fit that might be more appealing to the OP. It would fly more like a Slicer but with drones.

https://o.smium.org/loadout/11305


Ive tried all sorts of astero fits in my other characters and that ship doesent do anything remarkable for its price tag. Kiting fit or not (to be fair this ship is about as slow as an AF already), the dps is about the same or less than a tristan. Ive also killed assault frigs with exploration frigates and other cruisers with baitfit haulers, that doesent make them viable.

The only good thing it can do is selectively engage, yes. You will kill a random miner or inty or ratter you find but if helps is on the way you will more often than not have to leave due to crappy dps. Ive tackled ratting cruisers before and had to leave I couldnt break their passive tank. Ganking people with 100-140 dps is pretty pathetic, and it cant be used at the biggest source of easy frigates you can kill anymore. This ship also has a hard time engaging more than 1 thing at once. If youre using it as fleet tackle then you would be better off with an interceptor instead in every conceivable measure.

Its not even on the same league as a stratios is for what cloaky ganking is concerned. Expensive toys are supposed to be worth their money. Just about every other pirate frig is amazing at something, the astero isnt so impressive as a worm or a dd can be no matter how you look at it.

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Fenris Orion
Strata Victoria
Of Essence
#24 - 2014-08-24 22:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Orion
Nick Starkey wrote:
Fenris Orion wrote:


I think those that doubt the Astero either haven't actually tried to make it work, or didn't know what they were doing and failed hard, once, and didn't try again. No, it doesn't have the ridiculous 200% damage.....


(to be fair this ship is about as slow as an AF already), the dps is about the same or less than a tristan.

Ive tackled ratting cruisers before and had to leave I couldnt break their passive tank. Ganking people with 100-140 dps is pretty pathetic, and it cant be used at the biggest source of easy frigates you can kill anymore. This ship also has a hard time engaging more than 1 thing at once.

Just about every other pirate frig is amazing at something, the astero isnt so impressive as a worm or a dd can be no matter how you look at it.


Sorry, this is just terribad. Tristan has no damage bonus, either, so Atero can't have less dps than that, and it will very clearly outrun all Assault Frigates except the Wolf and Jaguar (which I already stated). And I thought we'd established it isn't a -pirate- frigate (note absence of absurd damage bonus). Daredevil's permeate my KB as easy solo kills, and I'll grant you that since the buff, Worms are about as OP as Garmurs right now, but that takes nothing away from the Astero.

A cheaply fit Condor with light missiles has absolute crap for raw dps. That doesn't stop it from terrorising every buffer-fit frigate, destroyer, and most cruisers out there. If you know your hardware, know your enemy, and have a little patience, you've got it in the bag.

The Astero works just fine. Give it up.
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-08-24 22:46:26 UTC
The tristan has a drone tracking bonus, which equates in more applied damage in practice, hence my comparison.

Now its very obvious you and me have different concepts of what a ship being worth it means, so its better to leave it at that. I for one believe that the same isk spent on an astero has better results if spent on any of the ships you listed, regardless of what the game classifies them into.

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Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-08-26 19:00:31 UTC
As has been said, don't underestimate the Astero. I have myself, and seen others use it as a very effective tackle ship in small gang fights with just fine dps for the intended purpose. My favorite role, catching those damn Falcons when they show up 50km off the fight... Big smile

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
Feyrin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-08-27 12:47:02 UTC
The ability to fit a covops cloak, bonused expanded probe launcher and effective tackle is quite rare in eve. Those things together on a frigate hull are worth the cost for any small gang.
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