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142 Days of Coalition Sovereignty
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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#21 - 2014-08-18 21:22:47 UTC
I loved the video! Thanks.

As an independant I really like null sec right now. It is by far the safest place in ALL of New Eden. I get to choose any space I want to run anoms and combat sites. The WH highway gets me back to HS to resupply and sell off my goodies in relative safety. In the meantime my alts do PI in WH space and I roam for pvp in low sec and WH. Life is good with so many choices. After all, EVE is what you make it.

Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#22 - 2014-08-18 22:36:34 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
I have stated this before in a similar thread, but it bears repeating.

Given the horrible designs of Dominion sov,


What people forget is that SOV before Dominion sucked even more than it does now. The POS grind was beyond insane, it's a cake walk now in comparison.

What changed was the reasons for fighting: The relative value of null sec vs the rest of EVE-space. Sure, null systems are potentially more valuable now than before Dominion's upgrade system, but relative to high end wormholes and faction warfare pve not to mention high sec activities like incursions and how easy ships like Marauders have made high sec pvp, null is many times less valuable to the high SP pve farmer that it was pre-Dominion. Those 'farmers' were important to the grand scheme of null sec life

People endured the insane pos grinding because at the end of is was useable space with moons and pve content and belt rats that could be used by the alliance to get the funds for other things (i remember when my old corp had to pay 'alliance tax'). Now moon goo is bound to a political system, null pve is something done by renters, ninjas and coalition grunts to stupid to roll a faction warfare bomber alt or buy an incursion runner alt and the SOV system is perceived to be oppressive when the system it replaced was many times MORE oppressive.


Bullshit. I can easily afford to rent my own system in nullsec based off just the active isk (the passive isk alone pays for the space leaving active site running etc as pure profit). THe issue isn't potential income in nullsec the real issue are the corporations themselves. You decided to join a nullblock corp/alliance that puts it's priorities on the corp/alliance over the little people. Those corps/alliances then rent out vast regions of their space and then you're shocked when you have few areas to grind isk. Then you come here and QQ about how OMG NULLSEC IS SO BAD FOR ISK AND HIGHSEC IS THE BESTEST EVA FOR INCOME!! As you ignore the billion isk ships you get replaced by your alliance for "free" with the income they get from renting etc.

If your corp is really that upset about losing the farmers then they might consider renting out less of your space so those farmers have some place to farm.

I do second your comment about the pre-dominion SOV though my god that was awful.


I also agree with the notion that nothing much is going to happen till the SOV changes are solid.







Gonna high light the relevant words since reading comprehension is hard for you.

what you posted is the same old high sec propaganda lie: 'null sec did it to themselves'. It's not true, CCP added new parts to EVE that has taken the emphasis off null as it was pre Dominion. That's what so many of us have high sec (and WH and FW) alts despite the fact that you can make more isk in null sec now than you could before Dominion.

Sometimes, logic is hard, i know.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#23 - 2014-08-18 23:16:42 UTC
End all SOV. Get rid of the deployables around SOV.

Problem "SOVed".


You want a system? Stay in it and kill everybody else.


It's time to dip our balls in it and go crazy.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Marsha Mallow
#24 - 2014-08-18 23:22:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
what you posted is the same old high sec propaganda lie: 'null sec did it to themselves'. It's not true

What you posted is the same apologist nullsec blobmonkey propaganda

"Dear CCP,

Nullsec is broken - and it's all your fault.
You put too much EHP on sov stuctures.
You created supers so laughably imbalanced we were forced to play with them.
Then someone noticed blobbing. So we did that too.
We touched each other for a bit. We farmed. We're bored.
THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT, AND WE DEMAND YOU FIX THIS SYSTEM, SO THAT WE CAN PLAY PROPERLY. WITH EACH OTHER. FOR IMMERSION

signed,
EliteForumCarebearBitterVets

ps. Can we have some more money"

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-08-18 23:30:10 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Those corps/alliances then rent out vast regions of their space and then you're shocked when you have few areas to grind isk. Then you come here and QQ about how OMG NULLSEC IS SO BAD FOR ISK AND HIGHSEC IS THE BESTEST EVA FOR INCOME!!

We have plenty of areas to grind isk. I don't think you understand the complaint at all.

ashley Eoner wrote:
As you ignore the billion isk ships you get replaced by your alliance for "free" with the income they get from renting etc.

Those ships only get replaced if they're lost as part of strategic operations. There's peacetime reimbursement that you get if you lose a ship in pvp (and it was pvp fit, not some ratting ship that you lost to a hot drop) but that's currently capped at 1 billion ISK per month.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaiia Gavlas Thessia
Ravens' Nest
#26 - 2014-08-19 00:00:04 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
I loved the video! Thanks.

As an independant I really like null sec right now. It is by far the safest place in ALL of New Eden. I get to choose any space I want to run anoms and combat sites. The WH highway gets me back to HS to resupply and sell off my goodies in relative safety. In the meantime my alts do PI in WH space and I roam for pvp in low sec and WH. Life is good with so many choices. After all, EVE is what you make it.




i puked a bit

RAVENS' NEST - Bringing the Dread Bomb Back
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-08-19 00:19:15 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Video is HERE.

What do you all think of null?


As a member of the second largest coalition in the game you guys should stop making treaties, put your big girl panties on and attack something. I heard that is how you change SOV somewhere along the way.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2014-08-19 00:22:59 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Video is HERE.

What do you all think of null?


As a member of the second largest coalition in the game you guys should stop making treaties, put your big girl panties on and attack something. I heard that is how you change SOV somewhere along the way.


N3PL is the largest, has been for a while.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2014-08-19 01:01:06 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Video is HERE.

What do you all think of null?


As a member of the second largest coalition in the game you guys should stop making treaties, put your big girl panties on and attack something. I heard that is how you change SOV somewhere along the way.


N3PL is the largest, has been for a while.

Yes, Test Coaltion Please attack

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-08-19 01:03:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

N3PL is the largest, has been for a while.


But they are separate entities

(that just fight side by side in most things)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#31 - 2014-08-19 01:03:48 UTC
Garandras wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

N3PL is the largest, has been for a while.


But they are separate entities

(that just fight side by side in most things)


Ah, we're still playing the game where we pretend like they're different things?

Gotcha.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2014-08-19 01:09:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Garandras wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

N3PL is the largest, has been for a while.

But they are separate entities

(that just fight side by side in most things)

Ah, we're still playing the game where we pretend like they're different things?

Gotcha.

Yeah, we're playing that game. Vince Draken has us right where he wants us

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#33 - 2014-08-19 01:17:45 UTC
Have no phear, Butthu... Battlement Coalition is here!

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#34 - 2014-08-19 01:31:10 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Too many people in null have lost the will to fight for the sake of it, and that's more about player mentality than CCP, so start taking some responsibility.

Fights for the sake of fights are still very much a thing. Killboards can easily verify this. It's not about that, because we already have that.
This thread is specifically pointing at the fact that sov isn't changing hands. Since that's the case, even though fights are still going, it tells me that the problem is with the sov mechanics as well, not just the players. Regardless of how much time we may invest into this game, it's still just that, a game. Popping ihubs with siege bombers is no one's idea of a good time. Dropping supers for it would be ridiculous, considering what I already said, about the coming sov changes being little more than rumor.
I don't know about you, but I am not cool with the idea of putting hundreds of billions of ISK in alliance assets at risk, to tool with a system that might be completely different in a few months.


It seems to me that there has to be a really difficult balancing act here. If sov can change hands overnight, then why invest in obtaining it? There has to be some level of stability after you obtain sov in order to make people want to get it.

I have to wonder, in terms of game balance--forget about the individual mechanics for now--how often do you think sov systems should be changing hands? To me that sounds like a terrible way to define game mechanics, but that's the end result that everyone seems upset about. Not enough changing of sov.

Well, define the goal. How many systems per day/week/month/year do you think should be shifting? What would be enough change to make you feel like things aren't static? People seem to be after a different big-picture outcome without regard for the actual mechanics. It's kind of a classic debate between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. You want a different outcome regardless of the opportunity? Well, let's just get right down to it and start there at the end goal you wish to see and work backwards to game mechanics from there.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#35 - 2014-08-19 01:32:44 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Too many people in null have lost the will to fight for the sake of it, and that's more about player mentality than CCP, so start taking some responsibility.

Fights for the sake of fights are still very much a thing. Killboards can easily verify this. It's not about that, because we already have that.
This thread is specifically pointing at the fact that sov isn't changing hands. Since that's the case, even though fights are still going, it tells me that the problem is with the sov mechanics as well, not just the players. Regardless of how much time we may invest into this game, it's still just that, a game. Popping ihubs with siege bombers is no one's idea of a good time. Dropping supers for it would be ridiculous, considering what I already said, about the coming sov changes being little more than rumor.
I don't know about you, but I am not cool with the idea of putting hundreds of billions of ISK in alliance assets at risk, to tool with a system that might be completely different in a few months.


It seems to me that there has to be a really difficult balancing act here. If sov can change hands overnight, then why invest in obtaining it? There has to be some level of stability after you obtain sov in order to make people want to get it.

I have to wonder, in terms of game balance--forget about the individual mechanics for now--how often do you think sov systems should be changing hands? To me that sounds like a terrible way to define game mechanics, but that's the end result that everyone seems upset about. Not enough changing of sov.

Well, define the goal. How many systems per day/week/month/year do you think should be shifting? What would be enough change to make you feel like things aren't static? People seem to be after a different big-picture outcome without regard for the actual mechanics. It's kind of a classic debate between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. You want a different outcome regardless of the opportunity? Well, let's just get right down to it and start there at the end goal you wish to see and work backwards to game mechanics from there.

Goons need to loose some sov

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#36 - 2014-08-19 01:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
So much excitement.

This video evokes the same emotions I feel when flying through null.

Edit: I'd like to point out that at first I was looking at random live webcams in Wyoming and had found a nice one 90 miles away from any sort of civilization. But as I went to copy the link the images updated and a truck pulled over to the side of the road to change a tire. This was entirely too dramatic and interesting for me to use it as an example.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
John Ending
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-08-19 01:45:38 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
N3 is where the action is?

N3 is where people derp sov
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#38 - 2014-08-19 02:17:34 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
what you posted is the same old high sec propaganda lie: 'null sec did it to themselves'. It's not true

What you posted is the same apologist nullsec blobmonkey propaganda

"Dear CCP,

Nullsec is broken - and it's all your fault.
You put too much EHP on sov stuctures.
You created supers so laughably imbalanced we were forced to play with them.
Then someone noticed blobbing. So we did that too.
We touched each other for a bit. We farmed. We're bored.
THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT, AND WE DEMAND YOU FIX THIS SYSTEM, SO THAT WE CAN PLAY PROPERLY. WITH EACH OTHER. FOR IMMERSION

signed,
EliteForumCarebearBitterVets

ps. Can we have some more money"



If you have any ability to be honest, you'll admit that I never said anyhting of the sort. Especially the EHP part, pre-Dominon sov had MORE ehp to kill. One of the problems with Dominon SOV is CCP tried to 'streamline' things. They did, and players streamlineed into 2 super powers. Thinking like this did not help along with additions to the game that did not take the rest of the game into consideration (the Incursions system, FW rewards and Wormholes).

But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your ranting and anti-null prejudice.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#39 - 2014-08-19 02:25:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
what you posted is the same old high sec propaganda lie: 'null sec did it to themselves'. It's not true

What you posted is the same apologist nullsec blobmonkey propaganda

"Dear CCP,

Nullsec is broken - and it's all your fault.
You put too much EHP on sov stuctures.
You created supers so laughably imbalanced we were forced to play with them.
Then someone noticed blobbing. So we did that too.
We touched each other for a bit. We farmed. We're bored.
THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT, AND WE DEMAND YOU FIX THIS SYSTEM, SO THAT WE CAN PLAY PROPERLY. WITH EACH OTHER. FOR IMMERSION

signed,
EliteForumCarebearBitterVets

ps. Can we have some more money"



If you have any ability to be honest, you'll admit that I never said anyhting of the sort. Especially the EHP part, pre-Dominon sov had MORE ehp to kill. One of the problems with Dominon SOV is CCP tried to 'streamline' things. They did, and players streamlineed into 2 super powers. Thinking like this did not help along with additions to the game that did not take the rest of the game into consideration (the Incursions system, FW rewards and Wormholes).

But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of your ranting and anti-null prejudice.

Thanks, the truth can be sorta annoying when I don't have a higherup to tell me what it is

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#40 - 2014-08-19 02:37:29 UTC
Null is killing the game right now.

The miners are gathering material as they should.
The builders are building the ships as they should.
Null is not destroying anything.

You need all three sides of the triangle to keep the economy alive and the sov alliances are dropping the ball on their end.

War, brothers and sisters. War. Lets get this show on the road. Not some piddly little skirmishes and not some lame once in a while battle. What we need is a solid six months of all out alliancide.

Make it happen.

Mr Epeen Cool