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Time to do something about locust swarms?
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Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#21 - 2014-08-16 11:04:28 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Maybe make ice mining anomalies less predictable and less reliable?...
Personally I favour a complete removal of static belts and all mining moved to anomalies (in their own category different from combat anomalies) and add back in gravimetric sites as the additional spice for explorers....


NO. The game will not be changed because the overwhelming majority all want to mine in the rookie pond of high security space, just no.
Kill the multiboxing pigs who snaffle the safe belts if you want, or mine low and null.
Or both.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Faeana
iD00M
#22 - 2014-08-16 11:07:28 UTC
Cerisia wrote:
The way I see it is that they pay for all those accounts and therefore have the right (imo) to do what they like with them.
If they are eating up all your ice then why not war dec them?

That is after all, the way the game is supposed to work.....


When you war declare them, they disband their corp and form a new one. Those that don't do this are already in an NPC corp. You can't touch these guys, there is no way for players to police this behaviour. Give players the tools, make ganking them viable to at least some degree. I see more and more of these groups appearing, and it's only going to get worse.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#23 - 2014-08-16 11:07:37 UTC
Just kill the orca / hauler
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#24 - 2014-08-16 11:13:32 UTC
With procurer/skiff multiboxed mining its the orca thats the key to it all, not the miners and not the frieghter. Bump the crap out of the orca so they cant use the orca to move ice around and your fine theyll eventually leave after a few days of this.

Oh and it used to be way worse with the retriever/mackinaws per change. Trust me I used to do it.

Procs/skiffs are needed to mine effectively in null sec with the BS spawns safely. They are a miners weapon so they can actually mine there so I think itd be a mistake to ***** and whine to CCP about nerfing them. They WANTED it not to be so retriever/mackinaw dependent in the belts and now its become that.

Working as intended.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Faeana
iD00M
#25 - 2014-08-16 11:23:48 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Maybe make ice mining anomalies less predictable and less reliable? Like moving them to random spawns in the constellation instead of a system. Or adding ice to some normal belts. Something like this would require the ISBoxer fleets to move around instead of being based in the same system, removing the convenience that comes with it.

Personally I favour a complete removal of static belts and all mining moved to anomalies (in their own category different from combat anomalies) and add back in gravimetric sites as the additional spice for explorers. Some spawned anomalies can then contain ice. Number of guaranteed anomalies per system can be similar to the number of belts. Could even add a depletion mechanic in, spawning only smaller and fewer sites if a system is mined heavily. This would also remove the fixed spawn of ores at downtime.

Has CCP ever mentioned any plans on reiteration on mining and mining sites?


Most isboxer fleets do move around, they finish an ice anomaly in a system then move to one in a system nearby, they do that a lot. The risk/reward is out of balance, they are making huge amounts of isk, at no risk. Even if they lost a ship, which never happens, it's peanuts for them to replace it.

There are too many Procurers and Skiffs being used, almost everyone is using them. Clearly this ship type was made too powerful and an adjustment is needed. In the form of less hitpoints and the skiff should also lose a low slot because that ship has an imbalanced number of slots (too many).
Faeana
iD00M
#26 - 2014-08-16 11:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Faeana
Jegrey Dozer wrote:
So let me get this straight.

OP says that multiboxers are the problem. Then somehow drifts off into complaining about procs/skiffs being too strong. And the solution to multiboxers "making billions" in High-Sec is to nerf procs and skiffs.

This is all very amusing because there is not even a mention of nerfing spawn rates of ice belts. This would actually be a direct nerf to the High-Sec players who are "making billions" multiboxing.

The OP's suggestion would be an indirect way of nerfing the mean ol' multiboxers that are apparently not abiding by the norm that OP seems to have conjured up in their head.

This is nothing more than a poor attempt of a ganker crying about not being able to gank a 200mil ship in their 2mil Catalyst.




Normal players with one account, or a few accounts even, are not making billions from hi-sec ice fields. It's the guys who using a large number of Skiffs and Procurers orbiting an Orca and or Freighter. They never use retrievers or covetor hulls, because they would be targetted for ganks.

As it is, there is far too many Procurers and Skiffs being used in hi-sec anomalies, most players are using them, this shows that there is a balance issue. So the obvious thing to do is, is solve the balance issue by adjusting the Skiff and Procurer so people will actually start to gank them occasionally and the issue will sort itself out. Two birds killed with one stone.

These guys don't even need combat ships to defend their mining fleets while they earn billions in complete safety. They are using 10 or 20 industrial ships in a blob and require no combat ships for defense. It's a joke. Perhaps we'll see some of them start using some combat ships for defense if they actually needed to.
K Raz
Crysonian
#27 - 2014-08-16 11:33:21 UTC
Move all ice to lowsec and make the spawns better.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2014-08-16 11:33:29 UTC
Donate to the New Order, in general.

If there are particular groups you are worried about, then you might considering outright hiring suicide gankers to put the hurt on.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#29 - 2014-08-16 11:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Faeana wrote:
There are too many Procurers and Skiffs being used, almost everyone is using them. Clearly this ship type was made too powerful and an adjustment is needed. In the form of less hitpoints and the skiff should also lose a low slot because that ship has an imbalanced number of slots (too many).

Procurer and Skiff are fine. If you reduced their tank back to easily gankable levels, you'd have to do something about the other barges too, to keep the overall balance.

As mentioned above, the Orcas and freighters are the key to those operations. Still, it shouldn't even be possible or at least not sensible to multibox to this extent.

Remove standings and insurance.
Faeana
iD00M
#30 - 2014-08-16 11:38:13 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
With procurer/skiff multiboxed mining its the orca thats the key to it all, not the miners and not the frieghter. Bump the crap out of the orca so they cant use the orca to move ice around and your fine theyll eventually leave after a few days of this.

Oh and it used to be way worse with the retriever/mackinaws per change. Trust me I used to do it.

Procs/skiffs are needed to mine effectively in null sec with the BS spawns safely. They are a miners weapon so they can actually mine there so I think itd be a mistake to ***** and whine to CCP about nerfing them. They WANTED it not to be so retriever/mackinaw dependent in the belts and now its become that.

Working as intended.


True they wanted less Mack/Ret in the belts. But now we have the opposite. The belts are full of Skiff/Proc and Mack/Ret are hardly seen in comparison. Just looking through the anomalies you can quickly see how Skiff/Proc dominated it is now.
Silky Cyno
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-08-16 11:41:03 UTC
Isn't mining punisment enough?
Faeana
iD00M
#32 - 2014-08-16 11:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Faeana
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Faeana wrote:
There are too many Procurers and Skiffs being used, almost everyone is using them. Clearly this ship type was made too powerful and an adjustment is needed. In the form of less hitpoints and the skiff should also lose a low slot because that ship has an imbalanced number of slots (too many).

Procurer and Skiff are fine. If you reduced their tank back to easily gankable levels, you'd have to do something about the other barges too, to keep the overall balance.

As mentioned above, the Orcas and freighters are the key to those operations. Still, it shouldn't even be possible or at least not sensible to multibox to this extent.


They just need reduce Proc/Skiff HP the right amount. They don't need to be easily gankable, just more gankable than they are now. Right now a Skiff has about 4 times more eff HP than a tanked Mackinkaw. That's the problem. Reduce this, so Skiff has about 2 times more, at the most. That's fair, anyone who whines about that just wants to see Procurers and Skiffs not being ganked at all. Reduce procurer tank to about 60% of what it is now too.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#33 - 2014-08-16 11:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Barzai Mekhar
Faeana wrote:


As it is, there is far too many Procurers and Skiffs being used in hi-sec anomalies, most players are using them, this shows that there is a balance issue. So the obvious thing to do is, is solve the balance issue by adjusting the Skiff and Procurer so people will actually start to gank them occasionally and the issue will sort itself out. Two birds killed with one stone.


Nerf ganking in cheap ships =>
Mining in anything other than a pro/skiff is no longer stupid (that is, if you're in a system that requires you to use them..) =>
Lazy people use retrievers, greedy people use covetors, people that need to tank BS rats in nullsec use procurers, balance achieved!

See, it works both ways.
Faeana
iD00M
#34 - 2014-08-16 11:49:41 UTC
At present, a Skiff has half the ore hold of a mackinkaw, the same yield, and once fitted, has on average 4 times more tank (4x effective hp)

You could also factor in that Skiff has 9% more yield too, since you can fit 3x ice harvester upgrade 2's and still have an extremely strong tank. A mackinkaw has to lose one upgrade for a damage control, or it is sure to be ganked.
Martin Corwin
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-08-16 11:51:18 UTC
Easy solution: ban multiboxing. It's pay-to-win imo, anyways. Banning multiboxing will solve other problems, too. Like, one player gatecamps, gold armor/gold ammo T3 link alt in system for "solo" pvpers and safe travel with scout alts. EvE is a massively multiplayer game, not a massively multitoon game.

Rebalancing ships or game mechanics just because of these pay-to-win types is stupid.
Dave Stark
#36 - 2014-08-16 11:52:59 UTC
Faeana wrote:
Does anyone have a solution to this?

bring more ships than they do.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#37 - 2014-08-16 11:53:37 UTC
Martin Corwin wrote:
Easy solution: ban multiboxing. It's pay-to-win imo, anyways. Banning multiboxing will solve other problems, too. Like, one player gatecamps, gold armor/gold ammo T3 link alt in system for "solo" pvpers and safe travel with scout alts. EvE is a massively multiplayer game, not a massively multitoon game.

Rebalancing ships or game mechanics just because of these pay-to-win types is stupid.


It can be spoofed with a primary windows command, I believe.

While I too hate ISBoxer, and I think it's horseshit, you're never going to stop people from multiboxing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#38 - 2014-08-16 11:54:00 UTC
Ban all ISBox users!
Faeana
iD00M
#39 - 2014-08-16 11:56:28 UTC
Barzai Mekhar wrote:
Faeana wrote:


As it is, there is far too many Procurers and Skiffs being used in hi-sec anomalies, most players are using them, this shows that there is a balance issue. So the obvious thing to do is, is solve the balance issue by adjusting the Skiff and Procurer so people will actually start to gank them occasionally and the issue will sort itself out. Two birds killed with one stone.


Nerf ganking in cheap ships =>
Mining in anything other than a pro/skiff is no longer stupid (that is, if you're in a system that requires you to use them..) =>
Lazy people use retrievers, greedy people use covetors, people that need to tank BS rats in nullsec use procurers, balance achieved!

See, it works both ways.


The majority of people in hi-sec use Procurers. No balance here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#40 - 2014-08-16 12:00:59 UTC
Oh, I have another suggestion for you.

If they are actually orbiting the Orca, then he is doing it to reduce the amount of commands he has to give. Use a Machariel or something to bump it away from the belt.

When the Freighter arrives, bump it too. Neither of those ships can do jack all against a dedicated bumper without backup, so they won't be going anywhere.

It will **** him off pretty quickly.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.