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CCP Mobilizing! Flee for your lives! The Ash Cloud Cometh.

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Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#321 - 2011-11-23 22:07:21 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.



Um, everything in EVE has real money value.

I can buy a GTC with my real money, and sell it here, on the forums, for ISK, and buy a bunch of ships. That ISK has real money value. So what you are saying is, CCP should never do live events because they can't fly ships with modules on them, because those modules might drop, and the ships can be looted for salvage, and they certainly can't have ammo in the hold (or anything else) because it has real money value.

You are right.

We are better off with CCP not playing the game with their dev alts. They shouldn't interact visibly with the players.

In fact, they shouldn't be allowed to play at all, because then they might have a better understanding of the game they are making.

Yep. You got it right on.

See ya later, gotta go flip a GTC to buy a faction-fit Loki.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
David Magnus
#322 - 2011-11-23 22:08:31 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
David Magnus wrote:


Wow, dude, seriously.
It was just a fun event and they put a few fun things in their ships as an incentive for people to come fight them!

Have you ever thought that CCP didn't work to buy/make the ships they were flying like we did for ours?
It would be UNFAIR of them to not have extra loot to offset the risk we are taking vs. the NO RISK they were taking.

Also, Tama isn't anyone's territory. It's literally 3 jumps from Jita.

There isn't a single more fair place for them to have fought. ANYONE could have come because it was 3 jumps from Jita.

You are seriously an idiot.
Why are you so upset about this fun event where they went out of their way to make it fair for everyone?!


I thought it was just about the KMs.

Upset that you might not get pinatas going forward?


a) I wasn't even there
b) PL didn't end up looting much of anything (pretty hard to beat other people to the wreck in a titan)
c) You're literally ********

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#323 - 2011-11-23 22:10:15 UTC
Not sure if it has been asked, but CCP post your losses please.

And thanks for bringing it, was good fun.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2011-11-23 22:10:56 UTC
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.



Um, everything in EVE has real money value.

I can buy a GTC with my real money, and sell it here, on the forums, for ISK, and buy a bunch of ships. That ISK has real money value. So what you are saying is, CCP should never do live events because they can't fly ships with modules on them, because those modules might drop, and the ships can be looted for salvage, and they certainly can't have ammo in the hold (or anything else) because it has real money value.

You are right.

We are better off with CCP not playing the game with their dev alts. They shouldn't interact visibly with the players.

In fact, they shouldn't be allowed to play at all, because then they might have a better understanding of the game they are making.

Yep. You got it right on.

See ya later, gotta go flip a GTC to buy a faction-fit Loki.



When your done with your logical fallacy laden tripe come back and have a real discussion.

No one said they shouldnt run events. Or interact with players.

They should not however have had such Items in their cargoholds that have clear Cash values. A plex and Nex items do have such values a battleship does not cause i cannot DIRECTLY purchase one with cash.

I wouldnt be surprised if this ran afoul of possibly gambling laws or some tax laws since those items have a cash value.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#325 - 2011-11-23 22:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Dant
RougeOperator wrote:
No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.

If CCP had offered a free month to anyone who got final blow on a dev, would that have bothered you? Were you bothered by the "eve is real" AUR payouts? How's that different to this?

The only thing that bothers me a bit, and only a bit, about the loot, is how more pirate faction ammo dropped from this event than has been sold in Jita in a year.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Enkill Eridos
Draconian Enforcers Available To Hire
#326 - 2011-11-23 22:12:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Enkill Eridos
RougeOperator wrote:
Awox Blueshooter wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

Actually I was asking you for feedback on how the system should be improved... It's an honest question as we want to be able to improve upon what we do. Who is this "we" you're referring to just so I'm clear?


we = ppl who pay REAL MONEY to play this game who dont like it when other ppl who just run incursions and pay isk to play get ccp devs flying to there doorstep to drop billions of loot. u have a history with goons and hearing this from u just confirms suspicions. there needs to be a ia investigation to make sure everything was done randomly or we cant trust u



Not to mention none of the stuff they had most likely did not come from the player run market.

They just devalued the plexes and nex items of people that pay IRL cash on them.


The race to defend this debacle is by those that want to pinatas to continue.

If its just about the KMs as they say then agreeing that there should be no loot drops makes sense, but isnt that strange that they are ignoring that? Why are you all so hostile to this if its just about KMs to you? Seems strange No one is saying that there shouldnt be events like this just that there was no need for that loot at all. Since its just about KMs you all can agree with that point.

CCP messed up and the LOOT was an insult to the players and injects stuff into the market that should not be there. There are many ethical reasons this was a bad move even from a company standpoint.


My argument is plex and nex items do need to be devalued on the player driven market imo. I can cite other reasons that support why this was a good move on CCP's part. This was supposed to be a fun PVC (Players Versus CCP) event. From what I have been reading it did exactly what it was supposed to. It is the small minority that is crying favortism. Goonswarm is the new BoB in many people's eyes who don't actually know what they are talking about. My thoughts to bring more player participation to an event like this is have CCP roam around all of New Eden, ganking miners, and mission runners. Many would cry about this yes, but it would generate more buzz and a message that says "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, especially today." Would hold true to everyone. Then give everyone some participation item (such as a reskinned quafe shirt that says something silly like CCP ganked me! or I ganked a CCP! or aurum for participating (i.e. getting on some kind of kill mail.) Or atleast allow the CCP's that come into trade hubs to do more trolololing than they did today. I mean these kinds of events are supposed to be fun for everyone. Obviously the loot idea, while a good one from an event standpoint, caused some problems. A participating item, and some funny quotes from what CCP's say in local would make up for the lack of isk made in said event. If I was a dev running an event like this, I would rehire some of the Atlanta guys and only pay them for live events they help with. Then I would run multiple fleets and make it a day or weekend long event, which would have gotten more participation imo than doing it on a weekday. (Weekend event say starts on Thursday ends Saturdays dt with two or three fleets in between with some CCP volunteers doing a little bit of suicide ganking and trolling. ) Or hold a lottery a week before on the forums pick some names out of a hat and allow select players to play on throwaway CCP accounts with nothing really overpowered besides the name CCP. Then for those that participated in that give them a reskinned Quafe t-shirt that says something like "I ganked with CCP." I think my suggestions sound like a fun event, and I hope you guys take these suggestions seriously for next time.

Are you a miner/mission runner that is tired of being ganked? Do you want to play EVE and never PVP, but you have a list of players that is stopping you from doing that? Don't QQ pay someone to do your PEW PEW for you. Now offering reasonable rates. EVE mail me for more details.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2011-11-23 22:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Jack Dant wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.

If CCP had offered a free month to anyone who got final blow on a dev, would that have bothered you? Were you bothered by the "eve is real" AUR payouts? How's that different to this?

The only thing that bothers me a bit, and only a bit, about the loot, is how more pirate faction ammo dropped from those events than has been sold in Jita in a year.



Yes there should have been nothing given out other then a KM.

If anything they should undo all the loot drops.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Pat Irvam
Doomheim
#328 - 2011-11-23 22:15:34 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Swearte Widfarend wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.



Um, everything in EVE has real money value.

I can buy a GTC with my real money, and sell it here, on the forums, for ISK, and buy a bunch of ships. That ISK has real money value. So what you are saying is, CCP should never do live events because they can't fly ships with modules on them, because those modules might drop, and the ships can be looted for salvage, and they certainly can't have ammo in the hold (or anything else) because it has real money value.

You are right.

We are better off with CCP not playing the game with their dev alts. They shouldn't interact visibly with the players.

In fact, they shouldn't be allowed to play at all, because then they might have a better understanding of the game they are making.

Yep. You got it right on.

See ya later, gotta go flip a GTC to buy a faction-fit Loki.



When your done with your logical fallacy laden tripe come back and have a real discussion.

No one said they shouldnt run events. Or interact with players.

They should not however have had such Items in their cargoholds that have clear Cash values. A plex and Nex items do have such values a battleship does not cause i cannot DIRECTLY purchase one with cash.

I wouldnt be surprised if this ran afoul of possibly gambling laws or some tax laws since those items have a cash value.



When any other company like a radio network or soda producer has a contest with cash as a proze should this also be banned? Should i call my congressman and tell him its unfair someone had a cash contest 3000 miles from me so i couldnt participate?

Sheesh talk about logical fallacy.

This is a game, have fun.
If it makes you sleep any better at night just call this a winter expansion promotional contest.
HydroVolcano
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#329 - 2011-11-23 22:16:24 UTC
TBH I'm not too pleased with CCP's event.

Their subcap fleet sat in one system, waiting for that cyno to light up and the blob of supers to land on them. The loot was overkill, I mean really? 17billion isk in faction ammo in that machariel? Come on.

If their "roaming fleet" was actually roaming, dropping a massive super fleet on them would not have been so easy, hell, they may have even made it to other regions, where other people who were not willing to travel 15+ jumps for their "reinforced node" lagfest in a system crammed full of 1000 people. 3 jumps from jita, oh nice - the highest populated system of bears gets to be just a few jumps out.

If this was just CCP's way of saying "Here ya go, use your supers to blow our subcap fleet up before they're all nerfed", fine. But the talks of making subcap ships useful in large fleet engagements led me to believe they would be looking for gang fights, not a massive blob of supers.

Suggestions for future CCP Fleets:
Review your fittings
Roam
Don't carry 17bil in ammo
Roam
Maybe have your own caps on standby for the situation you encountered in Tama
Roam
Ze Infidel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#330 - 2011-11-23 22:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ze Infidel
RougeOperator wrote:
Flinx Evenstar wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:


Mail sent asking for an investigation into this event.

It was very unethical of CCP to have that loot in their ships.


Would you have found it ethical if you had looted a plex yourself.

Your anger is just about you feeling left out in a very generous display from CCP, try not to be so bitter in R/L as you are in a game.

I missed out on this as well, but instead of being all angry like you, I'd like to congratulate CCP for providing some excitement and content for us pod pilots and trying to share in the driving force behind EVE, which is pvp. The devs that died had fun, the people that got on their mails had fun, and lots of people got to see titans in action for the first time :)







No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.


Funny how it went from just being about the KMs to people saying the LOOT matters now.


How is that unethical? THEY are the ones who lose out. Also, lets not forget that with that logic, ANYTHING worth any value would be "unethical" as it could all go towards buying PLEX.
You are just jealous about not getting it yourself.
As for CCP, bravo on doing a great event. No other mmo bothers with this stuff as it is hard work, yet always greatly appreciated by most players.
Seth Rock
Draconis Holding Corporation
#331 - 2011-11-23 22:17:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Seth Rock
go* *amn babbies ur hatchet wound hurt much? It was a fun event CCP threw and I think it's cool that they had some nice loot for EVERYONE attending to try and loot. They inject isk into the market every year when they give out free ships around the holidays and I don't see you complaining then. Stop making it into something it wasn't CCP were out and trying to bring some fun to people nothing more.
Scott Ryder
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#332 - 2011-11-23 22:18:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Scott Ryder
Edit: Sorry,Sad I dont want a forumban!
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#333 - 2011-11-23 22:19:50 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:

No it was completely unethical due to the fact Items with real money value were used. And needs to be addressed.


The only thing that is completely unethical is you posting on this forum. Seriously, your posting is equivalent to guttural noises and panting.

Stop posting!
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#334 - 2011-11-23 22:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Actually I was asking you for feedback on how the system should be improved... It's an honest question as we want to be able to improve upon what we do.

maybe start with not spawning crazy amounts of ultra-rare faction ammo?

no sane reason not to limit yourself to ammo from high-sec LP stores (where the extra supply would be a drop in the bucket) instead of trying to artificially crash one of the more exotic markets in eve.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#335 - 2011-11-23 22:21:39 UTC
I like how they all went from LOOT dont matter its just Kill mails to.... LOOT matters get over it.


And yes this was an Unethical use of Plex and Nex items. Not to mention the ammo that will play havoc with the player markets.

Just a big freaking mistake.


Also Next time how about CCP actually roam and not wait for the blob and give other players not in super alliances a chance to have fun.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Bisba
Teddybears.
#336 - 2011-11-23 22:25:22 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
I like how they all went from LOOT dont matter its just Kill mails to.... LOOT matters get over it.


And yes this was an Unethical use of Plex and Nex items. Not to mention the ammo that will play havoc with the player markets.

Just a big freaking mistake.


Also Next time how about CCP actually roam and not wait for the blob and give other players not in super alliances a chance to have fun.


Isn't it unethical of you to keep playing a game made by developers who you think act unethical? Also when you leave can I have your stuff?
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#337 - 2011-11-23 22:29:12 UTC
Bisba wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
I like how they all went from LOOT dont matter its just Kill mails to.... LOOT matters get over it.


And yes this was an Unethical use of Plex and Nex items. Not to mention the ammo that will play havoc with the player markets.

Just a big freaking mistake.


Also Next time how about CCP actually roam and not wait for the blob and give other players not in super alliances a chance to have fun.


Isn't it unethical of you to keep playing a game made by developers who you think act unethical? Also when you leave can I have your stuff?


No. And No.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Kara Carpenter
#338 - 2011-11-23 22:31:56 UTC
i am glad ccp put a fleet up against capsuleers. nice to know they're playing their own game. unfortunately i wasnt there :( but im not raging on loot like some people are.

now ccp, next time can a select few (perhaps people who got the last blow) be transported to polaris region for a day =D
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#339 - 2011-11-23 22:34:24 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:


And yes this was an Unethical use of Plex and Nex items. Not to mention the ammo that will play havoc with the player markets.


No it wasn't, its their game, they decide whats ethical and whats not, today they decided to have a war with the players with PLEX in their cargo hold.

Deal with it,.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#340 - 2011-11-23 22:35:03 UTC
So let's recap.

The loot thieves had a field day.

PL had a field day.

The paste-eating fanbois had a field day.

The km whores had a field day (you'd add 200b or so to your ISK killed total if you managed to whore all the mails.)

Everyone else ended up saying 'wtf, AkJon was right again.' EVE died a little more today. Stop peeing in the sandbox, CCP! If you want to bring a fleet through, fine. T1 battlecruisers, t2 fit, t1 rigs, (regular)faction ammo, 3% implants. No UBER drops!

I have nothing against devs interacting with the playerbase and enjoyed meeting a few of y'all at the Austin meet-up. But stop displaying such open contempt for the game we play.