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New dev blog: Corp locations > bookmarks in cans

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Jax Blake
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2011-11-22 20:29:03 UTC
+1 for wanting the ability to make corp bookmarks be restricted to a corp role, communications officer is fine by me.
Firartix
Parallax Heavy Industries
#102 - 2011-11-22 21:22:49 UTC
Corp bookmarks?!!!
My life is complete.
AirellX
Eden's Knights of Malta
#103 - 2011-11-22 21:39:13 UTC
Anvil44 wrote:

Or a password protected folder as we might not wish to share all bm's with all members of a corp? New members should not necessarily have the coordinates to the entrance to your wh. Some safety from spies.

Otherwise, I like this very much.


+1

Yes! Or have Corp Bookmarks Divisions, like in the Hangers and Orca's and such, but this is a really good start!!!
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#104 - 2011-11-22 21:57:43 UTC
cant wait to use this feature to hit unsuspecting plexers after my afk cloaky alt logged off in system 5 minutes before! especially now they think theyre safe!

yum!
Persephone Ziodex
The Cuban Connection
#105 - 2011-11-22 22:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Persephone Ziodex
Delete
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2011-11-22 23:21:24 UTC
lebniz wrote:
[copying bookmarks between characters]


Now you can. Create an alt corp, join it temporarily with both chars, copy 250 BMs from your main to the corp, copy them from the corp to the alt. Repeat as many times as necessary.

I know it's not perfect, but it beats copying them 5 at a time.
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#107 - 2011-11-22 23:45:11 UTC
lebniz wrote:

I'm certainly not the only person with multiple tactical bookmarks on nearly every gate in at least 2 or 3 regions, plus multiple safespots, off-grids, and assorted other bookmarks for dozens of systems. This is a couple hundred bookmarks! There has got to be some reasonable way of getting this data from one character to another without individually copying and trading them. I really don't think that such a restriction prevents any negative behavior in-game, and in fact serves only as an inconvenience to players. It is an unnecessary restriction and is the sort of thing that makes people grumble about CCP, and seems like exactly the sort of thing you guys are aiming to fix these days.


We have in fact considered allowing people to share bookmarks directly. That is I could actually give another player a bookmark. There are a number of design decisions that need to be made. For example a scout could instantly share a location with it's fleet which may or may not be a bad thing but is definitely a change in the mechanic. It is however to soon to rage about the ramification of such a change but it's a good mental exercise nonetheless.

You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway Big smile

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#108 - 2011-11-23 00:00:00 UTC
Hiram Alexander wrote:
Reading this I already knew it was amazing, but when I paid more attention, and spotted...
Quote:
Oh wait we also moved the location folder structure to the server which means that no longer will your bookmarks be lost to cache issues on your end.

CCP Guys n Gals, that is such a cool thing, there are hardly words for it... :)


So, I imagine this will come along with a relatively modest allowance that would easily get used up by a decent scout that had 4 tactical around every gate in their roaming reach (and a 40 jump roam isn't uncommon). You need at least one off grid, one just on grid.. Best to have a sniper spot.. and if you're inclined to bomb now and then a handful more at potential targets. For many gates you'll have sling bubble anchoring book marks etc.

Now, I’m not 100% against an isk based fee (which will logically have a real $ aurum easy conversion plan) to increase your bookmark quota but it isn't exactly pleasant being charged for something that you used to get for free.

I suppose there is some increased utility for those that care to share bookmarks (although certainly the 250 number is far too small to include tactical warp in spots for too many locations)... paying concord for extra utility isn't the end of the world....

.... yet, I do hope there is an import export function so that bookmarks could be taken out of game then sorted into folder and have names edited in a more friendly data administering window with word processing features etc.

That would make it even easier to share bookmarks (or maybe people do this already by having found the file where they've been stored ? ) if eliminating unnecessarily tedius activities is the goal ?

Is eliminating tedious activities the goal?
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#109 - 2011-11-23 00:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Shander Maxum
duplicate
Adunh Slavy
#110 - 2011-11-23 00:08:57 UTC
Yay, worm hole corps rejoice!

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#111 - 2011-11-23 00:14:08 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:
We have in fact considered allowing people to share bookmarks directly. That is I could actually give another player a bookmark. There are a number of design decisions that need to be made. For example a scout could instantly share a location with it's fleet which may or may not be a bad thing but is definitely a change in the mechanic. It is however to soon to rage about the ramification of such a change but it's a good mental exercise nonetheless.


Why not allow us to warp to a Cartesian coordinate? I know there are some concerns about safe spots outside the reasonable scanner range, but wasn't some sort of boundary algorithm created recently to deal with deep safes?

What is it, furthest from star by way of Pythagorean's theorem plus 10 AU or something? Flag the far object as the "far one", server side check on that plus 10 AU should be cake.

Anyways, good job on the shared BMs, defiantly a needed improvement.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#112 - 2011-11-23 00:26:11 UTC
CCP Tuxford wrote:

You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway Big smile


Well, I’ve always thought it would be nice to have a coordinate system with the center of an object at 0 on the x, y, and z axii .
It would make it very easy to warp in just where you wanted.. place a drag bubble very quickly without work or effort, or have quickly warp to anyone on grid…(if you’re clever and quick with that sort of thing)

… but, warping to anyone on grid entirely changes many current combat dynamics

… and easy… too easy takes away from the game.. many things are made deliberately difficult (scanning certainly can be delegated to a crew member with only answers given without any of the pilot’s manipulation of probe orbs for instance.. but there is a goal to make it a game of skill)

Of course it sounds like you’ve discussed all of those things and know them far better than I do .

I'd like to empahsize though that rewarding preparation and effort pilots make to gain an edge isn’t something that should be eliminated.

There are different types of tedious.

tediously manipulating a wonky user interface and draggign and droppin hundreds of objects is bad
tediously flying your space ship with though and precision to get the right tacticals is much different... still tedious but more logically so and promoting more ship flying which is good.

I suspect that one of the primary goals of the change is that some groups have figured out how to crack what is kept client side and share files over the internet immediately in an unlimited way …. Maybe even cracked the internal reference system to be able to create a bookmark by entering the desired coordinates into a third party program and having the data file amended live (and shot to cohorts?)

That you’re taking action is great… if that’s the reason…. don’t get me wrong… Personally I’d rather hear that reason of prevention of exploits than scratching my head wondering if the “gift” of the improvement really hides a nerf of some aspects of what we already have.

But again, I don’t know if there is such an exploit.. but Im’ curious.
mkint
#113 - 2011-11-23 02:22:17 UTC
Shander Maxum wrote:
CCP Tuxford wrote:

You are definitely not the only person that has multiple bookmarks on each gate over multiple regions but are bookmarks really the correct way to fill your need? We use bookmarks now to get more strategic warp in points to celestials because that is what we have. Now is there a mechanic that would replace your need so people wouldn't have to have many thousand of bookmarks. Food for thought anyway Big smile


Well, I’ve always thought it would be nice to have a coordinate system with the center of an object at 0 on the x, y, and z axii .
It would make it very easy to warp in just where you wanted.. place a drag bubble very quickly without work or effort, or have quickly warp to anyone on grid…(if you’re clever and quick with that sort of thing)

… but, warping to anyone on grid entirely changes many current combat dynamics

… and easy… too easy takes away from the game.. many things are made deliberately difficult (scanning certainly can be delegated to a crew member with only answers given without any of the pilot’s manipulation of probe orbs for instance.. but there is a goal to make it a game of skill)

Of course it sounds like you’ve discussed all of those things and know them far better than I do .

I'd like to empahsize though that rewarding preparation and effort pilots make to gain an edge isn’t something that should be eliminated.

There are different types of tedious.

tediously manipulating a wonky user interface and draggign and droppin hundreds of objects is bad
tediously flying your space ship with though and precision to get the right tacticals is much different... still tedious but more logically so and promoting more ship flying which is good.

I suspect that one of the primary goals of the change is that some groups have figured out how to crack what is kept client side and share files over the internet immediately in an unlimited way …. Maybe even cracked the internal reference system to be able to create a bookmark by entering the desired coordinates into a third party program and having the data file amended live (and shot to cohorts?)

That you’re taking action is great… if that’s the reason…. don’t get me wrong… Personally I’d rather hear that reason of prevention of exploits than scratching my head wondering if the “gift” of the improvement really hides a nerf of some aspects of what we already have.

But again, I don’t know if there is such an exploit.. but Im’ curious.

Bookmarks have been server side for years. It has been at least 3 - 4 years since you could find the bm file and edit it directly. The only change with that right now is that if you install your client on a different computer or something you won't lose your folders. Pretty sure they've said that in this thread already. You will not notice anything with that change.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Endeavour Starfleet
#114 - 2011-11-23 06:05:45 UTC
I just feel that this system is going to be gamed. This gives an already unbalanced incentive to AFK cloak an even more powerful force to aid large alliances.

Yet, I suspect only the data will show you how destructive the large alliances abuse these mechanics. So yes bring this on TQ and see for yourself.
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
#115 - 2011-11-23 06:12:49 UTC
I like this idea :)
Ulair Memmet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2011-11-23 06:26:16 UTC
Quote:
Oh wait we also moved the location folder structure to the server which means that no longer will your bookmarks be lost to cache issues on your end.


I love you guysCry
Bratwurst0r
DARK ORCHESTRA
#117 - 2011-11-23 06:32:49 UTC
250 is not enough.

Make it dependent on corporation-size please, or we will still copy bm's like crazy. Also not THAT happy with 5min delay, but ok, guess its needed.

All in all its one of the features i'm looking forward to, so good job.

And about the "something better then bms"-discussion: well, as long as we don't have that, make this one feature useful.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#118 - 2011-11-23 08:14:53 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
When CCP Tuxford isn't accidentally the whole server


Poor Tux, that incident isn't never going to be forgotten is it? He did manage to cancel it in time and all but still people bring that up. Cool

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Jr Instructorcon
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2011-11-23 09:01:35 UTC
I am not sure CCP understands how much of a pain in the ass this will be for larger corporations. Giving the ability for everyone in the corp to create corp bookmarks will result in tons of bad bookmarks that are either intentionally or accidentally created. With these showing up in the right click menu and the overview, this means a lot of screen spam that could have been easily avoided.

The proposed solution of "just kick the people making bad bookmarks" is inane at best, considering how easy it is to accidentally click the wrong button. Should we kick out new players just to stop them from creating corporate bookmarks? Isn't CCP trying to retain new players? What about the poor individual who gets to go through the 250 new bookmarks every day? Why is CCP dumping more work and grind on its players?

There seriously needs to either be a role or an option to limit who can create corp bookmarks. Straight kicking of players who create bad bookmarks, either intentionally or by accident, is stupid, and will catch more newbies than anything else, which is what our corporation is mostly composed of. Introducing this feature as is will result in more work being put on the already strained backs of those who manage corporations, and will generate dissent and a loss of newbie retention as directors are forced to kick players from their corp over a "feature".
Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
#120 - 2011-11-23 09:05:38 UTC
250 bookmarks isn't very much though.

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