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Hyperion: 3 questions for the badass WH PVPers
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Shaklu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-08-14 18:41:49 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
1. More tedious rage-rolling. I see CCP will also add more random connections. So why don't you guys just forget about rage-rolling and ask for even more random connections? If it truly is PVP that you're looking for, that is. Or is it about controlling your static in order to PVP only when and with whom you feel like it?

More random connections will just hurt PVP, due to the fact that all smaller corps will be forced out. It was more or less perfect the way it was

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
2. Committing caps. Are you seriously saying you want to jump a cap in only if you can hug the out-hole's 'instant gtfo' button? Because that's seriously un-badass.

When attacking a home system, they are able to bring all caps they own into the fight, where you can only commit maximum of 2, otherwise PVP wouldn't happen on holes because the capital support would be overwhelming on the side of the defender.

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
3. Caps landing outside of rep/cap/refit range. This I understand, but how often do you guys jump in multiple caps? And when you do, how often do you fight on the hole instead of at a POS or at a sleeper site? And don't the major corps have an honorabu code that could say: 'multiple cap engagements shall take place at the sun'?

No. No they don't have a code, and if they did it most definitely wouldn't be 'fight at the sun'. Usually fights take place either on a POS, or on a WH, due to the fast reaction times of the paranoid dwellers of Jspace. You either need to take out their safety (pos) or be a holding action to defend the WH so your defenders inside your home system can kill their attackers. Unlike normal space, when you die, you die. You are out of the fight for the rest of the day. You can't just hop into another pod, re-ship and join back up. You get podded out of the WH and it can take hours to get back in. So if you engage, you need to be able to engage with a chance of survival.
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#22 - 2014-08-14 19:04:36 UTC
For me at least, wormhole space has always been about adapting to the environment, rather than adapting the environment to suit your own needs. It's this sort of wildlands where the hardy thrive. I know these changes won't be impacting my corp much because we rarely roll our holes. Instead of scouting down eight jumps of a C4 chain and giving up, we keep going...

The content is out there and will still be accessible, it will just require more scanning. By utilizing scan techniques like sig strength bands and the like it's not hard to go through a chain quickly. I still expect a lot of systems to be empty with nothing but forcefields on D, but we see that in kspace null as well. I'm honestly more intrigued about how high-class corps will handle the changes. I guess we'll see?

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
Tim Nering
R3d Fire
#23 - 2014-08-14 20:36:11 UTC
If by highsec you mean the c5-c6?

I hardly care about that. What I find funny is the denial of being blobbers. Like ur not fooling anyone in this forum. We all play the same game here ... everyone knows ixtab lol. Jeez at least hk owns it and ganks with no shame.

Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
SwagYolo420
Rogue Inferno.
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2014-08-14 21:49:54 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
1. More tedious rage-rolling. I see CCP will also add more random connections. So why don't you guys just forget about rage-rolling and ask for even more random connections? If it truly is PVP that you're looking for, that is. Or is it about controlling your static in order to PVP only when and with whom you feel like it?


To be frank, if you are really interested in pvp and killing as much as possible you should be in lowsec. Much easier to find fights, generally more enjoyable fights, and it is also much easier to travel / do logistics. There is actually a place for small gang/solo pvp over there (lets not kid ourselves, regular small gang pvp in wormholes...) so you are not reliant on having a certain amount of corp members online before you can actually do stuff. That doing stuff is usually ragerolling to find siterunners or having a fight with another entity, or doing capital escalations because some people are poors and dont know how to expo so they have to get carried by the rest of the corp by doing sites in primetime (ok this may be a bit off topic). By making ragerolling harder it is more difficult to find stuff, more difficult to find fights, and you waste even more time doing mundane things.

When your corp rolls into an entity like Hard Knocks Inc. and you have 5 actual people online, you can now choose to roll the hole to find something more suitable. After Hyperion, you can now choose to log off and play dota or another game until the connection is dead or you have enough people online to actually fight. Yes, that could mean that you can't do stuff for the next 24 hours inside your home system. Fun gameplay, amirite?

Quote:

2. Committing caps. Are you seriously saying you want to jump a cap in only if you can hug the out-hole's 'instant gtfo' button? Because that's seriously un-badass.


There is this button on your capital class spaceship vessel that makes you locked in position for the next 300 seconds to make optimal use of your spaceship in combat. So jumping back isn't really the instant gtfo button you think it is.

If you know the hostiles are going to use a triage carrier and jump it into your home, you basically get all your alt dreads to login screen and get an easy, no-risk carrier kill.

Feeding isn't really badass is it.

Quote:

3. Caps landing outside of rep/cap/refit range. This I understand, but how often do you guys jump in multiple caps? And when you do, how often do you fight on the hole instead of at a POS or at a sleeper site? And don't the major corps have an honorabu code that could say: 'multiple cap engagements shall take place at the sun'?


The amount of times you fight on a hole can be quite large. It is a huge advantage for your opponent to fight on the hole - he is already setup, at appropriate ranges with logistics (but not too far away), and more importantly, can force the fight if you jump in - unlike setting up at the sun, which I have never seen happening.

The only reason to 'fight' at a pos is if you are shooting it. Only reason to fight at a sleeper site is if you manage to catch siterunners. Whilst catching is going to be a bit easier with the sig spawn change, rolling to find them will be more difficult.

To summarize, these changes do not make it more attractive for me to stay in wormhole space. I do not get the feeling that CCP is going in the right direction with w-space and with the amount of feedback we have gotten (ye gaise i'll monitor this thread closely for replies, add some constraints about how feedback must be constructive and clear and user manual included, this feedback is posted and then... ignored) I am going to find out what direction this game is taken. With 0/4 active accounts.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-08-14 21:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
Streya Jormagdnir wrote:
For me at least, wormhole space has always been about adapting to the environment, rather than adapting the environment to suit your own needs. It's this sort of wildlands where the hardy thrive. I know these changes won't be impacting my corp much because we rarely roll our holes. Instead of scouting down eight jumps of a C4 chain and giving up, we keep going...

The content is out there and will still be accessible, it will just require more scanning. By utilizing scan techniques like sig strength bands and the like it's not hard to go through a chain quickly. I still expect a lot of systems to be empty with nothing but forcefields on D, but we see that in kspace null as well. I'm honestly more intrigued about how high-class corps will handle the changes. I guess we'll see?

You are not adapting the environment to your suits your needs by rolling, you adapted to the evironment with full comprehention of the situation.
And scouting down chains will not get you anything , fights a few holes down are so rare(as in less then 5 in a year) that because of this changed pvp will just die out in WH's.
Bringing in capitals in those fights are ever more rare.
And if you are certain that the corp/alliance a few jumps down can bring blob then you are sure they will.
Small corps will die in c5-c6 holes and those hole will be emptier then they already are.
If you scanned a chain of 20 wormholes and didn't find any ship outside a pos shield what can you do but roll the hole or log off for 24 hours?
The most epic fights in w-space were sieges of some hole by a collection of agressors and friends of the defenders rolling holes to get in.
Now even that will be less and less likely.
Offensivly using capitals by jumping them in , will only be likely when you already have a blob present.
Using capitals on null sec holes is already suicede, you will get hotdroped if they got the balls to come to the hole.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-15 12:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloemkoolsaus
SwagYolo420 wrote:
When your corp rolls into an entity like Hard Knocks Inc. and you have 5 actual people online, you can now choose to roll the hole to find something more suitable. After Hyperion, you can now choose to log off and play dota or another game until the connection is dead or you have enough people online to actually fight. Yes, that could mean that you can't do stuff for the next 24 hours inside your home system. Fun gameplay, amirite?


This right here is what is the problem.
It's not gonna be a problem for us big fish, it's the small fish we eat that are gonna have problems. So in the long run i guess it is gonna be a problem for us big fish to..? What?Ugh
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-08-15 13:37:20 UTC
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:
SwagYolo420 wrote:
When your corp rolls into an entity like Hard Knocks Inc. and you have 5 actual people online, you can now choose to roll the hole to find something more suitable. After Hyperion, you can now choose to log off and play dota or another game until the connection is dead or you have enough people online to actually fight. Yes, that could mean that you can't do stuff for the next 24 hours inside your home system. Fun gameplay, amirite?


This right here is what is the problem.
It's not gonna be a problem for us big fish, it's the small fish we eat that are gonna have problems. So in the long run i guess it is gonna be a problem for us big fish to..? What?Ugh


Nah... If you roll into a big fish, you can jump the carrier in and warp it off and back before the big fishes have chance to scan down the wormhole and bubble up.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
SwagYolo420
Rogue Inferno.
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2014-08-15 13:59:09 UTC
It takes about 20 seconds for an archon to warp 150-175km (no hyperspatials). The time you need to make the on-grid warpin is about 25 seconds (150km, 6km/s). If you use webs, align time gets close to zero. The time you have since spawning the wh, jumping in and deciding who lives there is also a few seconds.

That basically brings the time you are at risk of being caught to about a minute (when you are in warp back to the wormhole you are safe).

It takes 15 seconds to scan down a K162 and 10 seconds to squadwarp your warpspeed-rigged sabre over there. Larger systems can take longer, but most pvp alliances live in smaller systems.

This is considering that you have everything in place to instantly collapse, which is not at all practical when just scanning down a chain.

Finally: there are people who roll with a carrier?
Winthorp
#29 - 2014-08-15 14:03:04 UTC
There is already three stickied threads to cry/give feedback about the changes, do you really need to tear it up in another thread we can tell you how out of touch you are?
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-08-15 14:15:03 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Nah... If you roll into a big fish, you can jump the carrier in and warp it off and back before the big fishes have chance to scan down the wormhole and bubble up.


If you roll into ixtab, yes. If you roll into some one else, not so much.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-08-15 14:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
SwagYolo420 wrote:
It takes about 20 seconds for an archon to warp 150-175km (no hyperspatials). The time you need to make the on-grid warpin is about 25 seconds (150km, 6km/s). If you use webs, align time gets close to zero. The time you have since spawning the wh, jumping in and deciding who lives there is also a few seconds.

That basically brings the time you are at risk of being caught to about a minute (when you are in warp back to the wormhole you are safe).

It takes 15 seconds to scan down a K162 and 10 seconds to squadwarp your warpspeed-rigged sabre over there. Larger systems can take longer, but most pvp alliances live in smaller systems.

This is considering that you have everything in place to instantly collapse, which is not at all practical when just scanning down a chain.

Finally: there are people who roll with a carrier?



You are assuming that your enemy is sitting is space with probes out waiting for a new sig to spawn. 9 times out of ten that won't be the case.

Due to the way new K162 spawn, if you are rolling with a purpose, there is no reason to not warp your capital to the wormhole at the same time as your scout.

Using the times you listed and what i just said above, it will take you roughly 30 seconds to warp off and back... Ain't nobody going to catch you and if they do, they deserve the kill Smile

Yeah some people do use a carrier with additional battleships. If you get caught rolling, what would you rather be caught in; a defenceless dread or a carrier?!

The only argument you are making is that you can't collapse a hole risk free anymore.

Edit: Disavowed still love to talk **** is see Blink

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-08-15 14:28:27 UTC
And winthorp it right, let's keep this in the appropriate threads.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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