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So I'm a writer of EVE related things now. I wrote about mining.
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2014-08-13 23:08:31 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Right now, mining requires so little input that it's just about impossible to tell the average highsec miner from a bot. That needs to change, and if we can do it in a way that discourages botting as well, then it takes out competition which makes the average miner earn more than he ever did before.


Really? Because I have no trouble at all telling the difference.

Instead of trolling the forums 24/7 , why don't you try playing and interacting with other players for a change.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#82 - 2014-08-13 23:22:39 UTC
Sentamon wrote:

Really? Because I have no trouble at all telling the difference.


Well, I've figured out a foolproof method.

If you bump them 50km off the belt and they don't immediately spill out obscenities in local, assume they are a bot. Works great so far.


Quote:

Instead of trolling the forums 24/7 , why don't you try playing and interacting with other players for a change.


Actually, I just finished ganking a couple of Ventures, for the contest. Pirate

I also find it rather hilarious that someone defending mining is telling anyone else to interact with other players. "for a change".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
How M'I Alive
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-08-14 01:00:37 UTC
Quote:
Conclusion Two: The risk:reward ratio of mining needs to be altered, making it less more rewarding to do in dangerous areas.

Looks like the editor on that site needs to do a worse better job.
How M'I Alive
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-08-14 01:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: How M'I Alive
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mooh Bear wrote:
You're never going to get the high-sec miners to move to low/null-sec. Period.


Ah, good. Hadn't seen this strawman in a while.

No one wants to force them to move anywhere. We want to make them actually have to play the game, instead of pretending to play the game.

Right now, mining requires so little input that it's just about impossible to tell the average highsec miner from a bot. That needs to change, and if we can do it in a way that discourages botting as well, then it takes out competition which makes the average miner earn more than he ever did before.


if they made mining more interactive, would you mine?

pve activities in any game always get boring eventually. this is why mission runners quit the game after so long. ultimately its the social experience with other players that will retain players

so: is it better to have extremely easy pve that allows you to focus on the social aspect of the game while doing it, or is it better to have a more complex pve where your focus actually needs to remain on it?

the reason miners stay around for years but missioners run away is because miners are actually having fun doing something else.

tldr other forms of pve should emulate mining to allow players to focus on the social element of the game while doing so
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#85 - 2014-08-14 02:50:15 UTC
How M'I Alive wrote:
Quote:
Conclusion Two: The risk:reward ratio of mining needs to be altered, making it less more rewarding to do in dangerous areas.

Looks like the editor on that site needs to do a worse better job.


Thanks! Sentence fixed.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#86 - 2014-08-14 04:16:33 UTC
How M'I Alive wrote:

tldr other forms of pve should emulate mining to allow players to focus on the social element of the game while doing so


Lol no. The other forms of the game should not be turned into clicking a button a few times an hour and getting free stuff.

If you want that, go play a Facebook game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2014-08-14 04:27:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Actually, I just finished ganking a couple of Ventures, for the contest. Pirate


Roll pathetic Bear

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
How M'I Alive wrote:

tldr other forms of pve should emulate mining to allow players to focus on the social element of the game while doing so


Lol no. The other forms of the game should not be turned into clicking a button a few times an hour and getting free stuff.

If you want that, go play a Facebook game.


or make massive blob and mine moons

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Oryan Jr
Event Horizon Consecution
#88 - 2014-08-14 13:40:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Oryan Jr
*Doesn't like the stigma that miners are automatically assumed to be botters*
Also I just mined all night and morning, without Netflix. I s cowered the forums, I looked up how to make an Orca pilot alt on EVEMon, I talked with my Alliance - mates on TS3, and i bought a few things in the market.

I didn't mind doing what I was doing out there, it wasn't boring to me, so what's the big deal fellas? We are simply looking for MINER changes perhaps, but don't jump all over the miners back man, we good folks!
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#89 - 2014-08-14 13:52:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
clicking a button a few times an hour and getting free stuff.


Considering cycle times for well skilled and boosted character and size of hisec rocks mining consists of at least 20 clicks per hour per strip miner. Add clicks needed to move ore from hold into can/hauler/orca and those needed to lock new rocks and to run survey scanner it's quite a lot of clicks. I would even argue click count is comparable to missions/anoms :)

Invalid signature format
Velicitia
XS Tech
#90 - 2014-08-14 14:06:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Xuixien wrote:
Anyway I'm sorry you don't like my ideas. I knew it would upset a few AFK miners. I'm just surprised so few have shown up to rage.


That's because they're AFK Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Wendrika Hydreiga
#91 - 2014-08-14 17:32:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Wendrika Hydreiga
Mining is at an odd place in EVE. Even as a six month old player, mining is only of use to me as a safe-ish way to translate time invested into ISK at a steady rate.

I once thought of getting the necessary BPCs to make Tech 1 fitted Procurers and just move to the Outer Ring and see if I could survive there on my own means. I'd need to mine my own ore, reprocess it, and build replacement ships for my all but inevitable ship losses, and see how long I could last before running out of ships or BPCs. It would sure be an adventure. If not a short one if I even managed to reach the Outer Ring. Maybe with an interceptor...

Anyways, I often sigh on how an entire ore hold filled with high end ore is barely more profitable than if I just stayed in Highsec munching on Pyroxeres. This is terrible. I'm willing to make the risks necessary to step up my quality as a player, but my math keeps telling me to give up on this idea. High end ores are just too heavy to cover the costs of even the cheapest Procurer and surviving the four to five trips to Low sec to pay to break even for the ship.

Even materials like Zydrine and Megacyte, which should be all but unavailable to me for staying around in Highsec can easily be obtained by reprocessing the loot I get for doing Missions. Just by doing SOE Missions alone covered all my mineral needs to craft not only several Probes and Launchers with well researched blueprints and LP, but also a couple of Asteros and a Stratios, all straight from BPCs. That without needing to shoot a single rock. One has to wonder why is Mining even needed when we could just educate new players to sell/reprocess their loot wisely and back it up with industry training.

I'd say that Highsec ores should be heavier and take a lot more space than Lowsec and Nullsec ores, as opposed to the other way around. If the best ores took half as much space compared to Veldspar or Pyroxeres, this would make trips to Lowsec and Nullsec more enticing. And that's without adressing the glaring problems of how mindless and uninvested Mining can be.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#92 - 2014-08-14 20:23:41 UTC
Yes massive rouge asteroids... give them even less reason to alt tab into the game
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#93 - 2014-08-14 21:34:10 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:
Yes massive rouge asteroids... give them even less reason to alt tab into the game


Yeah, it's like a reward for exploring and engaging with the game more. "Okay... now you can relax while you mine this roid."

Also it's cool.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Velicitia
XS Tech
#94 - 2014-08-15 09:32:17 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
(stuff)


You reprocessed the modules pre-crius, didn't you?

The other side of that is your (and well, nearly everyone's) use of "ISK/hour" as the main driving factor for why you're doing something.

Yeah, ISK/Hour is "important" if you're trying to make ISK for a reason (PLEX, that new ship you want, etc.) ... but really, if you're maximizing your ISK/hr and not having fun while doing it -- you're playing eve wrong.

(note, this does not mean that you can or should actively shoot yourself in the foot and do "extra work" because "it's fun" and end up with negative ISK/hr. There's a balance in there somewhere).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#95 - 2014-08-15 09:47:00 UTC
Nothing beats ISK/hr of selling PLEX so I do that for money and anything else I do in game is just out of love, curiosity, boredom, sudden interest, lolz and :reasons:

Now, how about them bigger rocks?

Invalid signature format
Velicitia
XS Tech
#96 - 2014-08-15 10:11:29 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nothing beats ISK/hr of selling PLEX so I do that for money and anything else I do in game is just out of love, curiosity, boredom, sudden interest, lolz and :reasons:

Now, how about them bigger rocks?



well, this too ... but buying PLEX to sell for ISK just to buy PLEX for another 30d gametime is a bit daft now, isn't it Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#97 - 2014-08-15 10:18:23 UTC
Yes it is that's why I pay my subs with RL money :)

I find it really funny that every activity in game is validated first by ISK/hr. Like you are not allowed to have fun with something unless it brings you "proper" amount of ISK. God forbid you would spent even a second on anything just because you want to do it not because it's profitable.

Invalid signature format
Desivo Delta Visseroff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-08-15 14:06:41 UTC
OP, I enjoyed your article and think if your proposed changes would introduce new gameplay elements and would increase group interactions. The idea of rogue mining sites actually sounds interesting. I would propose restricting them to Low sec only. This would inspire groups to get together mine, fight for and support the site until the asteroid is depleted.

My one concern, and understand this is coming from the context of someone who is a casual player, pays for his sub and is epicly cheap... My one concern is that these changes may drive up the costs of hulls in the market. Then again, I have read that the recent changes in Hyperion have promoted increased production in lowsec markets, so maybe my concern isn't warranted.

Anyone else share the same concern?

I was hunting for sick loot, but all I could get my hands on were 50 corpses[:|]..............[:=d]
Sunrise Aigele
Pemberley Enterprises
#99 - 2014-08-15 14:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunrise Aigele
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
How about this: new modules allowing to "expose" ore better for lasers to gather.


Why new ones? There are plenty of modules in the game that expose interiors. You could even have different weapon systems have different effects on asteroids if you wanted to: lasers and railguns drill, blasters... blast, artillery fractures, autocannons stripmine. Mining lasers could become similar to the way salvagers are now.

It would have the side effect of giving turrets to mining barges, but where is the harm? They would not need a full rack of weapons.

Schmata Bastanold wrote:
And since ore would be only discoverable (sites) and scarce (no more than x simultaneous per system or sth) and elusive (signatures fading away with time) cycles of actual mining lazors could be make faster without worrying about saturation of market with instant ore fountains.


I like this idea. The barges would have to get on exercise bicycles first. Of all the dedicated mining ships, only Venture hulls are capable of consistently warping across systems without gassing. As a bonus, they don't take half an age to align.

EDIT: It occurred to me after posting this that if weapons affected asteroids, the mythical mining defense fleet could participate actively even when there were no hostiles nearby. Imagine, a real incentive to have combat ships on grid.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#100 - 2014-08-15 19:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
- Remove all static belts, including ice belts. Make them spawn randomly in all areas of space and not appear on system scanner.

- Give the survey scanner selectable "scripts". Not scripts that you actually have to buy and store in cargo, but they are built into the actual module. Right click and select the ore type you want to find.

- Run the survey scanner while looking at the map overview to get a bunch of little colored dots to warp to. Color of dot tells you how concentrated the ore you are looking for is in that area. So set survey scanner to veldspar, run module, see dots. Set to plagioclase, run module, see different dots. Some dots will be small pockets of roids in the middle of nowhere, most will be parts of the rings around planets or solarsystem. Warp to your chosen dot.

- Run survey scanner while looking at all the pretty roids to get a graphical sweep in space, like the probe scanner when you enter a system. It will show a heatmap overlaid on the roid models that will dissipate after some time. So if you have survey scanner set to veldspar, it will highlight the rocks containing large amounts of veldspar. Load plagioclase script to see plagioclase. etc. The roids themselves are not named by ore type, and can not be visually identified either. You could use the cloven asteroid model from missions, and it may or may not contain any of the ores. Survey scanner will help you identify whats in there.

-Roids can contain several ores. Running lasers without crystals, you may get an assortment of ores from some roids. Usually mostly one ore, with trace amounts of others. Using crystals you can pinpoint and only receive the ore you want in addition to the higher yield rate.

- Roids don't pop but the ore you want depletes quickly and doesn't give huge amounts. So you have to move around more from roid to roid, leaving barren roids behind.

- Make mining ships align faster, move faster, can fit prop mod, can warp a lot without cap depletion, etc.

So miners have to search for their ore and be more active. Likewise gankers will have to search for the miners. Bots will have a more difficult time probably and end up mining crap roids for trace amounts of ore. Survey scanner is now a more useful module. Tiers of survey scanner can have different effects. Maybe the T2 version is more accurate than the T1.