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So I'm a writer of EVE related things now. I wrote about mining.

Author
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#41 - 2014-08-13 09:54:54 UTC
Shorter cycle, smaller rocks, bigger ore - those are all just rubbish ideas, sorry. Mining needs gameplay, it needs to be a process, something that requires planning and skills and player involvement. Being active should be rewarded and encouraged not punished by even more time wasted on waiting for dull moments to end. Rock is smaller/ore is bigger so more often I have to warp to station, dock, drop ore, undock, warp to belt, activate lazorz again - this is all time wasted and it could be spend on something productive. And that is basically all game mechanics should be designed to support - less hurdle more activity.

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#42 - 2014-08-13 09:56:04 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Shorter cycle, smaller rocks, bigger ore - those are all just rubbish ideas, sorry. Mining needs gameplay, it needs to be a process, something that requires planning and skills and player involvement. Being active should be rewarded and encouraged not punished by even more time wasted on waiting for dull moments to end. Rock is smaller/ore is bigger so more often I have to warp to station, dock, drop ore, undock, warp to belt, activate lazorz again - this is all time wasted and it could be spend on something productive. And that is basically all game mechanics should be designed to support - less hurdle more activity.


What do you propose?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#43 - 2014-08-13 10:05:07 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Shorter cycle, smaller rocks, bigger ore - those are all just rubbish ideas, sorry. Mining needs gameplay, it needs to be a process, something that requires planning and skills and player involvement. Being active should be rewarded and encouraged not punished by even more time wasted on waiting for dull moments to end. Rock is smaller/ore is bigger so more often I have to warp to station, dock, drop ore, undock, warp to belt, activate lazorz again - this is all time wasted and it could be spend on something productive. And that is basically all game mechanics should be designed to support - less hurdle more activity.


What do you propose?

I think they should implement some sort of mini-game along the lines of the hacking window for exploration. Something that requires some sort of thinking and problem solving, like maneuvering through dense sections of ore in order to preserve the integrity of your mining crystals or some such. Anything that promotes an element of randomness, something that rewards player skill, or breaks up the repetitiveness of the current mechanic.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#44 - 2014-08-13 10:06:23 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Shorter cycle, smaller rocks, bigger ore - those are all just rubbish ideas, sorry. Mining needs gameplay, it needs to be a process, something that requires planning and skills and player involvement. Being active should be rewarded and encouraged not punished by even more time wasted on waiting for dull moments to end. Rock is smaller/ore is bigger so more often I have to warp to station, dock, drop ore, undock, warp to belt, activate lazorz again - this is all time wasted and it could be spend on something productive. And that is basically all game mechanics should be designed to support - less hurdle more activity.


What do you propose?

I think they should implement some sort of mini-game along the lines of the hacking window for exploration. Something that requires some sort of thinking and problem solving, like maneuvering through dense sections of ore in order to preserve the integrity of your mining crystals or some such. Anything that promotes an element of randomness, something that rewards player skill, or breaks up the repetitiveness of the current mechanic.


Okay. How would they implement these changes with the current mechanics we have now?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#45 - 2014-08-13 10:11:28 UTC
Xuixien wrote:

Okay. How would they implement these changes with the current mechanics we have now?


Since highsec cheered so loudly about the implementation of the ESS as originally a straight up nerf to income, I suggest a similar action. Since, of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Well, unless they're all hypocrites anyway.

30% reduction in ore amount if you fail or don't do the minigame, 10% bonus if you do and succeed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#46 - 2014-08-13 10:14:38 UTC
you could have 1 veldspar asteroid of 5m3 in each hisec system only and still 99% of miners would not leave hisec to go to null or low. They would leave eve completely.

people seem to be under the impression that mining is broken/ boring- if that is truly the case, why do so many people mine? It can't just be afk and bots doing it all. can it?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#47 - 2014-08-13 10:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Schmata Bastanold
I'm not game dev but as a player I would love to see searching for ore to be introduced into mining. Not always same place and same amount so you can basically just bookmark everything and even save yourself those few km sometimes you have to crawl from belt warp in to get rock in range. Maybe move ore completely into ore anomalies, maybe make belts bigger and randomize which rocks contain ore, maybe mix of those two. According to lore basically all ore in universe should be already gone long time ago, you wrote it yourself by quoting statistics from just one week.

Maybe amount of ore sites that spawn and can be probed could depend on how much resources players commit into this purpose? Something like we have in FW systems, people can donate something to make "detection" more efficient? So no more selfish mining, you have to invest to profit. Kind of like they did with teams in Crius, you can win the auction but whole system benefits from this.

A propos ore sites: to make it even more competitive maybe once site gets probed and somebody activates warp to it, it could disapear? Or its signal strength could decrease with time from spawn? So the sooner you scan it down and bookmark the more chances you have for exclusive access? And of course ships at such site can be probbed so competition can always get there and poach some ore from you but if you throw all your corp at those rocks chances are you will be the only one who reaps reward.

As I said I am not dev and I won't even try to find out all pitfalls and exploits in my ideas but it doesn't mean nothing is worth doing.

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Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#48 - 2014-08-13 10:19:28 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
you could have 1 veldspar asteroid of 5m3 in each hisec system only and still 99% of miners would not leave hisec to go to null or low. They would leave eve completely.

people seem to be under the impression that mining is broken/ boring- if that is truly the case, why do so many people mine? It can't just be afk and bots doing it all. can it?


A large portion of it is "mining alts". Mining in NullSec is supposedly better than HiSec, yet a lot of NullSec bros keep mining alts in HiSec because it's more convenient and only slightly less profitable.

That's the contention in my article: How HiSec mining is only slightly less bad than Null, but inordinately more convenient.

As far as people quitting EVE... well, I hate to say it...

If they only play EVE to mine, and would leave EVE if they couldn't mine while watching Netflix... other than slightly cheaper ships I don't see what they were doing for the community?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#49 - 2014-08-13 10:24:29 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
you could have 1 veldspar asteroid of 5m3 in each hisec system only and still 99% of miners would not leave hisec to go to null or low. They would leave eve completely.

people seem to be under the impression that mining is broken/ boring- if that is truly the case, why do so many people mine? It can't just be afk and bots doing it all. can it?


Arguments "people will leave" are proven to be wrong all the time. People who leave because game got more interesting brought nothing into the game in the first place. Well, they paid their subs so of course CCP loves them but what else?

And why people mine? I don't know about others but I just do it because it is part of game I love to hate. Why wouldn't I at least try? My sub cost won't get lower because I don't participate or use some features and if you will play "wasted time" card I say "my time, my waste, GTFO because who are you to judge?".

Mining isn't broken per se, it is just boring. Unless you make it less boring by multiboxing or RP. I for example love to crunch whole belt by myself :) And what you gonna do, tell me I'm playing Eve wrong? Pfft...

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Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
When Fleets Collide
#50 - 2014-08-13 10:28:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xuixien wrote:

Okay. How would they implement these changes with the current mechanics we have now?


Since highsec cheered so loudly about the implementation of the ESS as originally a straight up nerf to income, I suggest a similar action. Since, of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Well, unless they're all hypocrites anyway.

30% reduction in ore amount if you fail or don't do the minigame, 10% bonus if you do and succeed.


That's a good idea, but I'd like for a lighter version of the minigame to be implemented for gun cycles as well, I want to have something to do while pvping in 10% tidi.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#51 - 2014-08-13 10:39:33 UTC
according to zkillboard, today, more than twice as many retrievers have been killed in hisec than null and low combined 33 - 15

are you sure its safer in hisec?
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#52 - 2014-08-13 10:43:23 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
according to zkillboard, today, more than twice as many retrievers have been killed in hisec than null and low combined 33 - 15

are you sure its safer in hisec?


Considering that most mining takes place in HiSec, it only makes sense that more barges are killed in HiSec than Low/Null. Care to try again?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#53 - 2014-08-13 10:47:20 UTC
Tam Arai wrote:
according to zkillboard, today, more than twice as many retrievers have been killed in hisec than null and low combined 33 - 15

are you sure its safer in hisec?


Yes.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#54 - 2014-08-13 10:53:40 UTC
Still waiting on ring and comet mining tbh

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#55 - 2014-08-13 10:54:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Xuixien wrote:

Okay. How would they implement these changes with the current mechanics we have now?


30% reduction in ore amount if you fail or don't do the minigame, 10% bonus if you do and succeed.

I'd agree with this. Maybe have standard crystals able to mine the 'normal' way at a reduced rate and new crystals that when used activated the mini-game. If it's completed successfully then the mining yield gets a bonus but if it fails then you get a penalty. Although I'd say make the penalty and bonus the same amount, depending on the difficulty I suppose.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2014-08-13 10:59:09 UTC
Just read this was a interesting read tbh, some nice ideas found in it aswell
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#57 - 2014-08-13 11:01:51 UTC
You really think some mini game would be better than actual gameplay? Geez... Let's have mini game for every frakking thing from undock button to titan bridge Roll

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Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#58 - 2014-08-13 11:04:58 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
You really think some mini game would be better than actual gameplay? Geez... Let's have mini game for every frakking thing from undock button to titan bridge Roll

What "actual gameplay" are you referring to?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#59 - 2014-08-13 11:06:09 UTC
Did you even read my previous post? This one.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#60 - 2014-08-13 11:08:36 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Did you even read my previous post? This one.


That's exploration, not mining itself.

The act of mining would be unchanged, the same stupid, boring, pointless click one button three times an hour and get bacon nonsense that needs to be expunged from the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.