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Stormcrows: Killers of 2034 Slaves

Author
Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#101 - 2014-08-15 12:25:44 UTC
You seem to be a person to whom the last word is important.

You shall have it.

Stormcrows, feel free to contact me. You know how.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#102 - 2014-08-15 12:57:29 UTC
If he docks up, they are effectively lost until he undocks with them in his hold again. Unless you have some manner by which interested parties might breach his personal stationside hangars and facilities, places that are effectively considered sacrosanct by CONCORD and the Empires except in the most extreme of circumstances, which, if you might have guessed, this situation does not fall under.

Which means that the only thing being done, is delaying the time until they are used in one of his sick sacrifices. By doing so you save none of them, but just delay the inevitable. The only time any of them can be saved from him is when he is in space with them in his cargo. Unfortunately, Nauplius will not be reasoned with - he has made his decision already and by all appearances has full intention of sticking to it - so attempts to push him away from the station and get him to give up his cargo will simply be met with a self-destruct sequence on the vessel, as others have stated. Not making the attempt is a cold understanding of this situation: you will save none of them with words, because he will not negotiate with anyone he views as beneath him.

But you might save some of them with weapons fire.

Everyone else here, the Matari included, seems to grasp that it is better to take a chance to save some of them than to guarantee the deaths of all of them.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#103 - 2014-08-15 13:09:31 UTC
Unless you think he's doing ritual sacrifice in the station run hangars, it's not like they're in any more danger in there than when treated to explosive decompression courtesy of bloodthirst and greed. I know Scotty has enough of a bloody fit under the best of circumstances, without having to clear dead bodies out of his hangars.

What scares me is that everyone's just ignoring that the only thing achieved is Nappy buying new stock every time you destroy his current hoard. And is it really too much to ask to try going the path of least horrible murder rather than just opening fire without any attempt at doing something else?

It costs nothing to try getting his cargo unscathed. Not a thing. Not even trying is not a matter of cold understanding. It's a matter of not giving a crap about the cargo in the first place. Trying to justify it after the fact with "cold understanding" is a pitiful statement of just how little they mattered when put up against blood thirst and greed.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#104 - 2014-08-15 13:12:32 UTC
I think you are missing that people have tried in the past and are not trying it anymore because it's been made clear any and all such attempts will be ignored.

Feel free to go out there and try it yourself, though.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Anslo
Scope Works
#105 - 2014-08-15 13:23:23 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
I think you are missing that people have tried in the past and are not trying it anymore because it's been made clear any and all such attempts will be ignored.

Feel free to go out there and try it yourself, though.


That would involve Jinari taking risk though.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#106 - 2014-08-15 13:26:11 UTC
Pilot Otsito,

It seems your information about our stance, contingencies, and open offers to Hoi Andrapodistai are mistaken. While we have a practice of not discussing a war on IGS, our stance now is the same as it was when some of us were pilots as part of Electus Matari who had to do the exact same thing many times: do what you must; save who you are able. Should you have further questions about our corporation, you may feel welcome to contact us in the future.

Also, there are at least three ways your 'safe' suggestions could end in catastrophe, but I trust you will forgive me if I do not say them in the hopes of avoiding that.
Anslo
Scope Works
#107 - 2014-08-15 13:34:39 UTC
YOU TELL EM KOHIKO! WOOO!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#108 - 2014-08-15 13:58:25 UTC
The only risks I take are carefully calculated. Going into combat as an unarmed non-combat pilot would be utterly ridiculous by any measure, but I suppose if you can't argue the points you argue the person making them. It doesn't really matter whether or not it has been attempted in the past. It costs absolutely nothing to make the attempts and there is much to gain if it succeeds.

Skipping it because it's not as fun as simply jumping straight to the killing part has yet to be even remotely justified.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#109 - 2014-08-15 14:11:51 UTC
The problem is, the guy genuinely believes in his heart of hearts that the only reason why the Minmatar ethnic group even exists is because God created them specifically to be "vile subhuman sacrifices". He is not a reasonable man, he's a fanatic, and you don't allow fanatics to stall you.

If you're going to save any lives in that kind of situation, you have to strike hard and fast and save those you can. If you've got hostages with guns to their head and the hostage-takers are preparing to execute the lot and martyr themselves, then you storm the place and accept that not all of those hostages are getting out of there alive. Their deaths are not on your hands.

The same goes for Stormcrows. They didn't kill those people - Nappy did. By putting them in that situation, and by being the man he is, their blood remains on his hands alone.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#110 - 2014-08-15 14:12:08 UTC
I have now thought of five ways to ensure your suggestions would end with everyone dying, and I am not the one wanting to kill them. I am not willing to gamble on all or nothing with that, only my frigates. That is my calculation.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#111 - 2014-08-15 14:29:49 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Skipping it because it's not as fun

And here is where you clearly and openly demonstrate you have no idea what you are talking about with regards to the situation.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#112 - 2014-08-15 14:40:30 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Unless you think he's doing ritual sacrifice in the station run hangars, it's not like they're in any more danger in there than when treated to explosive decompression courtesy of bloodthirst and greed. I know Scotty has enough of a bloody fit under the best of circumstances, without having to clear dead bodies out of his hangars.

What scares me is that everyone's just ignoring that the only thing achieved is Nappy buying new stock every time you destroy his current hoard. And is it really too much to ask to try going the path of least horrible murder rather than just opening fire without any attempt at doing something else?

It costs nothing to try getting his cargo unscathed. Not a thing. Not even trying is not a matter of cold understanding. It's a matter of not giving a crap about the cargo in the first place. Trying to justify it after the fact with "cold understanding" is a pitiful statement of just how little they mattered when put up against blood thirst and greed.


Perhaps, you might want to first consider saving your anger to those who have put slaves up on the market for sale in the first place? As that appears to be where a good number of Nauplius's slaves are coming from.

I would also suggest that you step out of your armchair and step into the reality of the situation. CONCORD prevents pilots from going into other pilots' hangars. As long as there is a caspuleer within a ship, we cannot board the ship. And as it has already been pointed out, were we capable of boarding his ships, there is nothing to stop him from self-destructing the ship and killing all involved.

The 'uproar' over this incident is...peculiar to say the least when one considers the fact that Nauplius has stated elsewhere that he makes extensive use of slaves as part of his ships' crew.

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#113 - 2014-08-15 14:45:50 UTC
So.

Did Stormcrows cargoscan the Bestower first ? Or did they engage without the information that there were a number of slaves on board ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#114 - 2014-08-15 14:50:03 UTC
Once more, a lot of talk in favor of the killings but no reasons given not to spend that little extra time on the preceding options when they could save more of the lives in question. You lose nothing by holding him a bit. If he docks, the slaves live. If he jettisons them, they live. If he tries to self-destruct, option three comes into play and you save what you can.

This is not your normal hostage situation. There are no guns to their heads and no time pressures involved. From the moment he's pointed and webbed, time is on your side. I repeat, you lose nothing but stand to gain much. Absolute worst case scenario, you're forced to do exactly what you're already doing. Killing indiscriminately. Best case scenario, a full cargohold of live rescuees.

Quote:

And here is where you clearly and openly demonstrate you have no idea what you are talking about with regards to the situation.


And here is where you've run out of arguments and try to deflect the issue. As always.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-08-15 14:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Valerie Valate wrote:
So.

Did Stormcrows cargoscan the Bestower first ? Or did they engage without the information that there were a number of slaves on board ?


It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference whether they had or hadn't.

If there are no slaves on board then, great: the kill contract can be fulfilled without collateral bloodshed.

If there are slaves on board, then they're doomed anyway and their only hope of freedom and a full life is to shoot the ship out around them and rescue the survivors.

The blame for there not being a better option rests squarely on Nauplius.

Quote:
You lose nothing by holding him a bit


Sorry Jinari, but you're completely wrong there. You lose a LOT by holding him a bit, while he gains. He gains time to stall, to plan, to act. Hesitation is an opportunity for the target to come up with wiggle room, vent atmo from the hold, call in third party remote-rep, you name it. What happens if he starts fitting guns on his ship and, once webbed and scrambled, ejects the slaves and then blows up the jetcan? What happens if he pays a bystander to shoot his wreck the second his ship pops?

Hesitation is a loss all by itself. Pressure and seconds are valuable resources, to be spent as efficiently as possible. You DON'T allow fanatics to stall you.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#116 - 2014-08-15 14:52:27 UTC
Jinari Otsito wrote:
Once more, a lot of talk in favor of the killings but no reasons given not to spend that little extra time on the preceding options when they could save more of the lives in question. You lose nothing by holding him a bit. If he docks, the slaves live. If he jettisons them, they live. If he tries to self-destruct, option three comes into play and you save what you can.

This is not your normal hostage situation. There are no guns to their heads and no time pressures involved. From the moment he's pointed and webbed, time is on your side. I repeat, you lose nothing but stand to gain much. Absolute worst case scenario, you're forced to do exactly what you're already doing. Killing indiscriminately. Best case scenario, a full cargohold of live rescuees.

Quote:

And here is where you clearly and openly demonstrate you have no idea what you are talking about with regards to the situation.


And here is where you've run out of arguments and try to deflect the issue. As always.


So...quick question. Why does your opinion on this situation have any merit worth considering since you, stated yourself, aren't a combat pilot? You have no experience in combat or any similar situation. Why should your criticism be worth two tugs?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#117 - 2014-08-15 14:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinari Otsito
No one's forcing anyone to take my views on board, but neither am I going to refrain from giving them in a public forum as long as no one can refute them. It should be simple enough, if I'm wrong. So far, it seems to not quite be the case. Feel free to argue the points rather than the person, if you wish. It might prove illuminating for everyone involved.

Verin, you really can't know that. If the attempt isn't made, the result is not a certainty. Again, it costs nothing.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.

Anslo
Scope Works
#118 - 2014-08-15 14:57:32 UTC
I don't see the point. You're set in your opinion and just keep adding fuel to a stubborn fire. Personally, I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing and a side of ego boosting. But whatever, just callin' 'em as I see 'em.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#119 - 2014-08-15 14:58:11 UTC
Okay, well, quit arguing with the people who are insulting you and start engaging with the points then. They're here, in this thread. I've made them, Morwen's made them, Kohiko's made them... even Anslo's made them, in his inimitable jerkass fashion.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anslo
Scope Works
#120 - 2014-08-15 15:00:02 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Okay, well, quit arguing with the people who are insulting you and start engaging with the points then. They're here, in this thread. I've made them, Morwen's made them, Kohiko's made them... even Anslo's made them, in his inimitable jerkass fashion.


Flattery will get you everywhere Stitch!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]