These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Hyperion] Nestor Tweaks

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#101 - 2014-08-11 21:41:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
interesting adding some genuine uniqueness .. what it also tells us is that Rise is far too conservative with changes .. since every change he does needs further changes later on down the line ... please give him a kick up the arse for us please

Being conservative with changes is exactly the way to go with their new release patterns..


not if it doesn't meet its end goal


What end goal?
Your end goal of wanting to use it?

The end goal is to see the statistical usage of this specific ship rise to a level CCP deems acceptable.
Doing small changes and watching what happens will tell if the end goal is achieved.
If not, then more tweaks until this end goal is met and the ship finds its niche...

It will not be told by you nor me...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Scout Vyvorant
Doomheim
#102 - 2014-08-11 21:41:35 UTC
The real rebalance you need to do to the nestor is her pricetag.

I think now the price is around 1.3 bil, and for 1.3bil you can get a lot better than the nestor for any of its uses. But let's say you boost enough the drop rate of those chips, and the nestor gets around 800-700mil, then imo it's going to be totally worth, and having a ship that's a jack of all trade (but master of none) is going to be a thing.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#103 - 2014-08-11 21:50:01 UTC
Scout Vyvorant wrote:
The real rebalance you need to do to the nestor is her pricetag.

I think now the price is around 1.3 bil, and for 1.3bil you can get a lot better than the nestor for any of its uses. But let's say you boost enough the drop rate of those chips, and the nestor gets around 800-700mil, then imo it's going to be totally worth, and having a ship that's a jack of all trade (but master of none) is going to be a thing.


i've done quite a bit of market speculations in my time with eve, i doubt youll see it drop that low, maybe it will even out at 1b but i still think given its state you wont see much more use

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#104 - 2014-08-11 21:57:03 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
interesting adding some genuine uniqueness .. what it also tells us is that Rise is far too conservative with changes .. since every change he does needs further changes later on down the line ... please give him a kick up the arse for us please

Being conservative with changes is exactly the way to go with their new release patterns..


not if it doesn't meet its end goal


What end goal?
Your end goal of wanting to use it?

The end goal is to see the statistical usage of this specific ship rise to a level CCP deems acceptable.
Doing small changes and watching what happens will tell if the end goal is achieved.
If not, then more tweaks until this end goal is met and the ship finds its niche...

It will not be told by you nor me...


you don't have too take my word for it .. just read the HAC thread .... ishtars will still be used exactly as they are in the same way in the same numbers ... so tell me how does that meet the end goal here??
people would like to use other ships .. but when ishtars are so OP why would you??

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Emma Irvam
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2014-08-11 22:10:31 UTC
Last week I was experimenting with nestor fits for incursion logistics. On paper it does outperform an oneiros, with more rep power and cap stability, but it's 5x as expensive, and the lock time is worse. The buffer is not that great for a battleship once you have a few relays in the low slots. So for all that money what are you really gaining? Not much.

The same story is repeated in every other use case I've tried. It just doesn't do anything very well. It has no defining role.

That said, reducing the cost will make it more attractive. That's a good change.
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-08-11 22:15:26 UTC
I honestly appreciate the effort that's being put in to make Nestor worthwhile battleship, but I'm still of the opinion (and have been since the ship was introduced on Sisi) that a jump drive would make Nestor A LOT more unique and desirable. Even if the jump drive was at the expense of most of its current bonuses.
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#107 - 2014-08-11 22:19:54 UTC
I for one am really happy about these changes, they really reflect the background of the ship, it makes sense to have a Maint Bay and fleet refitting services. I would also personally like to see an increase to the internal cargo space, as it isn't that much bigger than a Stratios, I'd love to use my Nestor for it's role as a support ship to a fleet of exploring Stratios and Asteros.
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
#108 - 2014-08-11 22:25:58 UTC
How much more stuff do you want to cram into this thing?

It already has bonuses for guns, drones, tank, logi and exploration. And now another feature. It´s a mess
Dentric Crendraven
Doomheim
#109 - 2014-08-11 22:29:38 UTC
Amazing Changes.

Also, if you add Covert Jump Drive (Can jump to Covert Cynos) then this might just become my favorite battleship.

Note: no covops cloak and no bridging and no faster when cloaked non sense. I don't mind it having the jump capability but it should be a little different and not just a straight copy of a Black Ops. If it does not require Battleship 5's then it should not be as good as a Black Ops.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#110 - 2014-08-11 22:29:41 UTC
Rena Monachica wrote:
How much more stuff do you want to cram into this thing? It´s a mess

Of this, we're in total agreement. It's a Gong Show… Strip the RR capability and give it a Covert Ops cloak.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Haiyai Higashi
Feasible Deniability
#111 - 2014-08-11 22:31:55 UTC
Im looking forward to finally getting chance to try out the nestor. However something i noticed as a trend is most people want it to lose the exploration bonuses in exchange for something else. But it seems to me like it might be interesting to go the other way and expand upon its exploration side over its raw combat ability. Perhaps bumping its virus bonuses up and increasing the range of its analyzers could lead to an interesting set up (hacking the cans as you approach and then just grabbing the loot as you hit the can.) And personally i think giving it a bonus to the scan res penalty of a normal cloak could have some merit as an in between of getting covert cloaking and not. Granted my point of view is as an explorer who really wants to go beyond just using stratios, t3, and covert frigates. Make the Nestor a true exploration battleship
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#112 - 2014-08-11 22:36:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

Secondly, we are adding a new function to the Nestor that fits well with its role as a group support vessel. We are giving the Nestor a 5000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay that will allow friendly ships to refit when they are nearby.
As always, we welcome your feedback in this thread.

Thanks
-Fozzie

Perfect change there Fozzie. That came out of the blue. But that is a very nice change which will make the ship unique and would be very valuable in fleet engagements.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#113 - 2014-08-11 22:39:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
To be honest, I still can't think of a reason to use one. In almost any situation barring highsec, you could just use a carrier instead. And in highsec, you can use the far more common Orca instead.

If it cost 350mil then I could maybe see using it, but I really doubt you are going to buff the drop rate *that* drastically.

Comparing a battleship to an Orca and a carrier, I think the differences are quite obvious. I expect to see this used a lot in wormholes where carriers cannot be used to easily roam about. Think of it as a mini carrier.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#114 - 2014-08-11 22:41:37 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Give it the ability to be black ops bridged so at least that not-as-good-as-logi rep bonus might have some use

If the idea is to blops bridge a bil+ logistics platform why not just bridge a Sin instead?

Zoneras wrote:
This SMA a huge step in making something VERY VERY VERY useful in a niche role in wormholes. This may in fact be solving the issue with capitals being spit out in random directions after jumping and unable to refit off of one another. I wonder if that was your intention? I'm still not satisfied with having to throw another expensive ship at the problem just because the enemy is unwilling to jump through a wormhole.

I'm not sure how this resolves the issue of capitals being spit out in multiple directions on jump.
They are, fitted, almost as expensive as a carrier and nowhere near as useful/survivable in combat.
They're also too light (and expensive) to be legitimately used as a hole rolling bs hull. There are other cheaper, heavier (read: effective) battleships for the job. In fact Blops BS hulls make for decent hole rollers (as do the pirate BS hulls) for those looking to use expensive combat BS hulls to mass holes.

Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
not if it doesn't meet its end goal

The Nestor is still CCP Rises's "spruce goose". This is, what - the third revision/attempt to make the Nestor relevant again?

...again?

I'm right behind you
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#115 - 2014-08-11 22:55:36 UTC
How about a cloaked velocity bonus so we can use t2 cloaks without going super slow.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#116 - 2014-08-11 23:10:26 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
How about a cloaked velocity bonus so we can use t2 cloaks without going super slow.


This has been suggested and rejected by CCP because the Nestor is not allowed to travel anywhere.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#117 - 2014-08-11 23:15:12 UTC
hoping with max implants and such you can squeeze it through the frig size only WHs. lololol that would be funny.
Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2014-08-11 23:29:08 UTC
Really think the ship could do with dropping the exploration roles. They're just not practical. Nobody is going to go exploring in a Nestor no matter how much the price comes down because it's a battleship. The fitting bay is pretty cool, and goes well with the idea that the Nestor is a support ship, so ramp up its RR capabilities, tank, etc.. Make it excel at being a support ship.
Momiji Sakora
Omni Galactic
Central Omni Galactic Group
#119 - 2014-08-11 23:36:02 UTC
Jon Joringer wrote:
Really think the ship could do with dropping the exploration roles. They're just not practical. Nobody is going to go exploring in a Nestor no matter how much the price comes down because it's a battleship. The fitting bay is pretty cool, and goes well with the idea that the Nestor is a support ship, so ramp up its RR capabilities, tank, etc.. Make it excel at being a support ship.

Whilst not good at the job, and as someone stubborn like me, I explore with my Nestor.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#120 - 2014-08-11 23:49:45 UTC
The exploration bonuses were extra. If they did take them they would not replace them with anything else.

The ship continues to grow on me. I have often wanted a battleship to be the backbone of a fleet, and most are just more dps with little fleet support ability. For the PvE I do the fitting service isn't that useful, but I like all kinds of neat stuff. This qualifies.