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[Suggestion] Black Ops Rebalance
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Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#1 - 2014-08-10 20:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Hello Everyone o/

1) Introduction


Since some years , CCP promised they will look and work around a "rebalance" of Black Ops ship
Those are the most ISK/Skill Invest for subcap ship , with a few/limited role , but they done it as intented

The main problem are there is MORE TITAN pilots than BLACK OPS pilot currently in Eve (CCP Rise quote it)
It's kinda annoying that an High-End Super Capital are most used than an High-End Battleship

How to change this ? how to make Black ops more "usefull"

I don't say that they are useless , but if a ship are less used than a Titan it's maybe they role are too much limited and/or the risk to bring them in a fight are not good than bridging a few bomber that cost 100X less than a blackops with fewer skill needed to do this stuff...

In this forums , lot of people sayin to bring them Covert Ops cloack
Some say Yes , Some say No , the question are not here i think...

So , How to buff Black Ops without change it into a POWNAGESOLOMOBILE boat and brake them ? And what will be good to improve them just a slight to give them more ability on field ?

I have maybe something for this :)

I don't pretend that is the ONLY solution , or the BEST , but just think around it , discuss , debate , and make CCP Fozzie looking at this



2) Black Ops Cloaking Device


The Most controversed bonuses on black ops are these strange/annoying bonuses
-Black Ops bonuses (per skill level)
125% bonus to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices


But , like you know , when the fight is commited , the cloaking device are just USELESS because when you are lock , you can't cloack anymore
and this strange bonuse don't works well with propulsion mod (you can have a trololo speed with MWD+Cloack trick , but that give nothing on field/in combat and you will never touch this max speed in cloack/mwd with the high inertia that all BS hull have)
That just give you the right to Insta-Warp off when you Align/Cloak off/Warp

Well , my first idea would be a new module , that give a slight touch and taste for black ops


Black Ops Cloaking Device

Description :
A very specialized piece of technology, the Black Ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with specific Black Ops vessels. Although it could theoretically work on other ships, its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations will overwhelm non-specialized computing hardware.

Note: This particular module is advanced enough that it allows a ship to navigate faster while cloaked. However, fitting two or more cloaking devices to a ship negates their use, as unsynchronized light deflection causes interference.

Attributes
Can be fitted to : Black Ops
Maximum Velocity Modifier : 500% ( 625% bonuses with Black Ops Cloaking device II)
Reactivation Delay : 5 Sec
Allow Warp : No


Fitting
CPU Usage : 70 tf (Tech II 75 tf)
PowerGrid usage : 1 MW

Requirement
Cloaking at 4
(Cloacking at 5 = Unlocking Black Ops Cloaking Device II , that allow you to have 625% bonuses speed under cloack)


Price&Industry stuff would be determinate/debate , but i think that would be a high-price modules , like ALL faction cloack that Black Ops use today , i think a 20-30m ISK for them



By this tweak with this new module , having cloaking skill at 4 give you the same OLD bonuses that you have with BlackOps skill at 4 , have cloaking at 5 give the same OLD bonuses that you have with BlackOps skill at 5
That will always allow you to Cloack/align/Decloak/Instawarp Off

In fact , that give you the right to navigate under AB/MWD/MJD while cloacked , that can give sneaky trip :) idea removed , use a propmod undercloack will be a bit too strong so , keeping just the idea to navigate faster undercloack without the specific black ops skill bonuses

if anyone have an other idea to rebalance it , lemme know



So , right now , we have remove 1 roles bonuses of Black Ops Vessels , and we have remove 1 Bonuses from Black Ops Skill bonuses

let's do this !

3) The Black Ops Rebalance



See you soon o/
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#2 - 2014-08-10 20:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz

3) The Black Ops Rebalance


Redeemer

It is the most popular black ops used in Combat Drop and Bridge too
The best EHP of all black ops , Great DPS , Great Drone Bay/Bandwith , Great DPS Application , great cargo bay with lot of low slot to be a great Space Truck Bridge

But we can make it better than he is , and give him a nice bonuses to neutraliser/vampire that will allow him to be moar deadly to use , like an overboosted pilgrim on steroid !

Redeemer

Amarr Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% reduction in Large Energy Turret activation cost
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount
7.5% bonus Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloak, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· -50% consumption of fuel cost by jump



Widow

One of the most hated/loved black ops
I think it is the MOST HARDER black ops to skill to get it optimal on field
Need Black ops at 5 to have full ecm bonus , ECM bonuses at 5 for same reason , Most Missiles Skill at 5 to apply dps Properly , etc etc
He really need some love , something weird it is than he have the SAME BONUSES of ECM STRENGHT than a stupid Falcon
Why Widow , who supposed to be High-End ECM Caldari Boat , who cost fraking Billion of isk will/would be drop on field if a silly Falcon can do the same job ?
Why Widow have nice bonuses for Cruise and Torps Velocity if he can't jam further than 30km and be useless with Cruise Missile ?
Why bomber have nice bonuses on explosion velocity with torps and not the Widow ? (remember it is a high-end battleship T2)

Widow

Caldari Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo max velocity and explosion velocity
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to ECM Target Jammer Optimal Range
35% (or 40%)bonus to ECM Target Jammer Strength

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloak, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· -50% consumption of fuel cost by jump



Sin

As you know , the actual bonuses of inertia mass give abolutly nothing on field , only a key to GTFO faster than any black ops
Lot of people sayin that the use of the drones are bad on black ops vessels
So , i have thinking to give MAJOR buff on hybrid turrets (moar tracking , like the Redeemer have) and keep the drone bonuses , Gallente ship have always a great use of drones
And giving him a new bonuses of Sensor Damp make sense
Redeemer (armageddon hull) have bonuses on neutraliser/vampire
Widow (scorpion hull) have bonuses on ECM
Sin should have an ewar bonuses to make him competitive with the redeemer/widow new bonuses

Sin

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to to Drone Hitpoints and Damage
5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret Damage

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampening
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret Tracking

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloak, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· -50% consumption of fuel cost by jump


Panther

Panther are really good to deal a insane amount of damage in all kind of resist by the powaa of projectile weapon !
Good for it's free cap use to firing weapon (not like the redeemer...) who is crucial after a jump in a covert cyno
with the new black ops cloaking device module , he would be allow to fly at more than 2400 m/s in MWD under-cloack with black ops skill at 5 !
For the second bonuses , i have give him the same bonuses as the Moracha , a 30% webifier range , he will help him to "track" down ennemy instead of having a tracking bonuses and can be usefull on a black-ops gang , but still under a bonuses that a Rapier have

Panther

Minmatar Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Damage
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to ship max velocity
30% bonus to Stasis Webifier Optimal Range

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Covert Ops Cloak, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· -50% consumption of fuel cost by jump




I Will need help to determinate what will be the 3rd new role bonuses that black ops have with my idea of black ops cloaking device

Other question will be

- Did black ops need Fitting buff ? (moar CPU/PWG ?)
- Need EHP/TECH II resist buff ?
- A Decrease of their price to see more people flying it ?


Any Suggestion and feedback will be appreciated :)

Thx to have ready my wall of text !

EDIT : NEW ROLE BONUS FOUND , REDUCTION OF FUEL COST BY JUMP BY 50%
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#3 - 2014-08-10 20:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
wrong edit/post sorry
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-08-10 21:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Pareka
wasn't there a post about this yesterday were you to lazy to read through the recent post or a search come on.

now i will read what you have put up and come back


Edit: ok so i really like what a lot of these go with as a starting point however that BlOP Cloak needs to be scaled back no prop mods and 125% to speed 135% with the T2 i also feel the skill bonuses need to be geared to the E-war side 100% (leave the battle ship skill bonuses as is) this is to make sure they are fleet ships needing there cov/recon support to do the job and not be able to easily BLOP drop on there own
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#5 - 2014-08-10 22:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Jason Pareka wrote:
wasn't there a post about this yesterday were you to lazy to read through the recent post or a search come on.

now i will read what you have put up and come back


Edit: ok so i really like what a lot of these go with as a starting point however that BlOP Cloak needs to be scaled back no prop mods and 125% to speed 135% with the T2 i also feel the skill bonuses need to be geared to the E-war side 100% (leave the battle ship skill bonuses as is) this is to make sure they are fleet ships needing there cov/recon support to do the job and not be able to easily BLOP drop on there own



The propmod allowed undercloack would be a great feature and give to black ops a great taste and make them able to GTFO of the field more "easier" than before

and yes like you say , a dedicated bonuses for moving while cloacking are a wastefull bonuses if we can make a dedicated modules for black ops with the same bonuses than today

but i am more focused to give bonuses on DPS application than E-War bonuses , that role are dedicated to force recon
that's why i have make bonuses "under" that force recon have

the only major buff on Ewar i would appreciate will be on Widow , it's a pain to skill him with black ops 5 and ECM related skill at 5 to have .... the same bonuses than a fu***ing Falcon who cost 10X less and don't need enormous skill invest than the Widow

I'm still thinking about the 3rd Role Bonuses that the blackops cloacking device have remove , i have think at a damage bonus role bonuses or things like that , but that will make Black Ops too powerfull , so , if you have an idea ^^

Really sorry , i didn't see you'r post , it's my "first" post in forums :p
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-08-10 22:22:23 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Jason Pareka wrote:
wasn't there a post about this yesterday were you to lazy to read through the recent post or a search come on.

now i will read what you have put up and come back


Edit: ok so i really like what a lot of these go with as a starting point however that BlOP Cloak needs to be scaled back no prop mods and 125% to speed 135% with the T2 i also feel the skill bonuses need to be geared to the E-war side 100% (leave the battle ship skill bonuses as is) this is to make sure they are fleet ships needing there cov/recon support to do the job and not be able to easily BLOP drop on there own



The propmod allowed undercloack would be a great feature and give to black ops a great taste and make them able to GTFO of the field more "easier" than before

and yes like you say , a dedicated bonuses for moving while cloacking are a wastefull bonuses if we can make a dedicated modules for black ops with the same bonuses than today

but i am more focused to give bonuses on DPS application than E-War bonuses , that role are dedicated to force recon
that's why i have make bonuses "under" that force recon have

the only major buff on Ewar i would appreciate will be on Widow , it's a pain to skill him with black ops 5 and ECM related skill at 5 to have .... the same bonuses than a fu***ing Falcon who cost 10X less and don't need enormous skill invest than the Widow


Really sorry , i didn't see you'r post , it's my "first" post in forums :p


they don't need DPS that is the role of the SBs and i don't mean give larger bonuses to the E-war i mean give a bonus to each of the E-war the races use instead of just one
Redeemer nuet/vamps and tracking disrups
Sin Scram/point and sensor damps
Panther TPs and webs
Widow this one can stay with the slight boost to ECM
But giving them a bunch of damage and damage application will remove the need of a support fleet to be bridged and it will instead become drop blap bounce with very little to counter it w/o knowing one was going to drop on you

and if you use a prop mod with the cloak it can't be a full boost maybe have the cloak also add mass so it takes time to get up to speed
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#7 - 2014-08-10 22:38:20 UTC
Jason Pareka wrote:

they don't need DPS that is the role of the SBs and i don't mean give larger bonuses to the E-war i mean give a bonus to each of the E-war the races use instead of just one
Redeemer nuet/vamps and tracking disrups
Sin Scram/point and sensor damps
Panther TPs and webs
Widow this one can stay with the slight boost to ECM
But giving them a bunch of damage and damage application will remove the need of a support fleet to be bridged and it will instead become drop blap bounce with very little to counter it w/o knowing one was going to drop on you

and if you use a prop mod with the cloak it can't be a full boost maybe have the cloak also add mass so it takes time to get up to speed




So , in fact , you want to make Black ops like bigger Force Recon with BattleShip DPS and JumpDrive capability ?
You suggestion make them little to counter it too , i mean you'r remove too the need of a support fleet of Force Recon to fill E-War Support on the field

The Problem can be :

1)Why i will need to bridge my Rapier if this Panther can do the same work with insame amount of DPS and personal jump drive ?

2) Why i will need to field my Panther who cost XX Billions of ISK if a 200m ISK Rapier and 2x30M SB can do the same work ?



And saying that Bomber are the DPS on a Blops gank are not really true
yes they make high dps/alpha
but Torpedo have a poor poor pooooor application of his dps , the target need to be web/scram/paint if it is a target under the BC-Size

If i mix dps application and ewar capability it's because

1) yes , you have train a loooooong time to get on a blingbling BS , you can have good dps and he will apply it better than the lowest skill/isk than a SB
2) You will still need support ship because you have lowest ewar bonuses than force recon have


But sure at 100% that Blops need some love , some ewar capability and DPS application

The Only one Blops to have a DPS/Application are the Redeemer , that why he is the most popular blops today (and yes , great EHP too)
Would be cool to see all other blops have better DPS application , that will justify the high cost and the high skill required to fly it properly
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-08-10 22:47:08 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

So , in fact , you want to make Black ops like bigger Force Recon with BattleShip DPS and JumpDrive capability ?
You suggestion make them little to counter it too , i mean you'r remove too the need of a support fleet of Force Recon to fill E-War Support on the field

The Problem can be :

1)Why i will need to bridge my Rapier if this Panther can do the same work with insame amount of DPS and personal jump drive ?

2) Why i will need to field my Panther who cost XX Billions of ISK if a 200m ISK Rapier and 2x30M SB can do the same work ?



And saying that Bomber are the DPS on a Blops gank are not really true
yes they make high dps/alpha
but Torpedo have a poor poor pooooor application of his dps , the target need to be web/scram/paint if it is a target under the BC-Size

If i mix dps application and ewar capability it's because

1) yes , you have train a loooooong time to get on a blingbling BS , you can have good dps and he will apply it better than the lowest skill/isk than a SB
2) You will still need support ship because you have lowest ewar bonuses than force recon have


But sure at 100% that Blops need some love , some ewar capability and DPS application

The Only one Blops to have a DPS/Application are the Redeemer , that why he is the most popular blops today (and yes , great EHP too)
Would be cool to see all other blops have better DPS application , that will justify the high cost and the high skill required to fly it properly



to question one and two yes that is exactly the questions i want asked do i send in the bill isk blop or will bridging a few recons get the job done

as for the SB question thats exactly right they can't apply there DPS without Webs scrams and painters that is why you need the recon ships bridged with them.

and no with the damage you are trying to give them the only time i need a support fleet would be if i was going up against a force i couldn't swiftly Alpha away.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#9 - 2014-08-10 22:53:08 UTC
I would like to see the black ops ships changed to give Titan-esqe boosts that only apply to covert ships.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-08-10 22:57:56 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
I would like to see the black ops ships changed to give Titan-esqe boosts that only apply to covert ships.



Now this is an idea i can get behind
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#11 - 2014-08-10 23:05:03 UTC
that would fill the 3rd Role bonuses that i don't have find with the remove of it by the blackops cloaking device ....
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-08-10 23:18:06 UTC
What would be good to go with that is make it so that bonus affected the E-War for the race

the only problem is they would need to be strong enough to be worth risking the isk but if they are too strong then the base boosts of the recon ships would have to be looked at but these can't be nurffed to hard or you will make them useless w/o blops so balancing may be hard
Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2014-08-11 00:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
First of all, remove all drones and drone bays to Black Ops, they are counter productive on cloaky ships.

Here is what I would go for in terms of bonuses to go with your recommendation on Black Ops Cloaking Device. I feel Black Ops should just be Glass Cannon as they have low tank, and recons should be bringing the EWAR, you put EWAR on Black Ops you obsolete Recons. Before you say this obsoletes Stealth Bombers, Bombers Primary Job is to BOMB.......

Redeemer (H8 / M4 / L7 : T6 / L0)

Amarr Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% reduction in Large Energy Turret activation cost
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
7.5% bonus Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

Widow (H7 / M8 / L4 : T0 / L6[+1])

Caldari Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo max velocity
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo damage
10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion radius

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives


Sin (H7 / M6 / L6 : T6[+2] / L0) [Change to a Megathron or Hyperion hull because Blasters]

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Large Hybrid falloff
5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of Fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Large Hybrid damage
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

Panther (H8 / M6[+1] / L5[-1] : T6[+1] / L0)

Minmatar Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

The 25% reduced Spool-Up would mean 6.75 second activation, 50% would be 4.5 second activation.

NO DRONES PLEASE, COUNTER PRODUCTIVE TO CLOAKS

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#14 - 2014-08-11 01:02:42 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
First of all, remove all drones and drone bays to Black Ops, they are counter productive on cloaky ships.

Here is what I would go for in terms of bonuses to go with your recommendation on Black Ops Cloaking Device. I feel Black Ops should just be Glass Cannon as they have low tank, and recons should be bringing the EWAR, you put EWAR on Black Ops you obsolete Recons. Before you say this obsoletes Stealth Bombers, Bombers Primary Job is to BOMB.......

Redeemer (H8 / M4 / L7 : T6 / L0)

Amarr Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% reduction in Large Energy Turret activation cost
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret rate of fire

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
5% bonus to Large Energy Turret damage
7.5% bonus Large Energy Turret tracking speed

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

Widow (H7 / M8 / L4 : T0 / L6[+1])

Caldari Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo max velocity
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
5% bonus to Rapid Heavy Missile, Cruise Missile and Torpedo damage
10% bonus to Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion radius

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives


Sin (H7 / M6 / L6 : T6[+2] / L0) [Change to a Megathron or Hyperion hull because Blasters]

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Large Hybrid falloff
5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret rate of Fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Large Hybrid damage
7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

Panther (H8 / M6[+1] / L5[-1] : T6[+1] / L0)

Minmatar Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage
5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret rate of fire

Black Ops bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff
7.5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret tracking

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

The 25% reduced Spool-Up would mean 6.75 second activation, 50% would be 4.5 second activation.

NO DRONES PLEASE, COUNTER PRODUCTIVE TO CLOAKS



why no drones ? they are always usefull (light drones/ecm drones and sentry/heavy who gives slight dps boost )
Stratios are counter productive by using drones ? i don't think so
i don't understand you'r argument

but you'r rebalance seems good (that just make me sad to see the ecm bonuses on widow removed :/)
Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2014-08-11 01:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
why no drones ? they are always usefull (light drones/ecm drones and sentry/heavy who gives slight dps boost )
Stratios are counter productive by using drones ? i don't think so
i don't understand you'r argument

but you'r rebalance seems good (that just make me sad to see the ecm bonuses on widow removed :/)


Drones are counter productive because while they are out you can't cloak, if your buddy has his out and you just in range of his orbiting drones yo still can't cloak, see my reasoning? Also if you gotta jump away in a hurry you will leave your drones behind because the cost of your ship is more important, so simply just get rid of the drones.

Yes drones on the Stratios is counter productive.

About the Widow, I have one, has no ecm moduels on it.... pure shield torpedo widow, more survivable, ecm widow is usually left on field to die and save the other blops.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Athryn Bellee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-08-11 01:43:06 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
why no drones ? they are always usefull (light drones/ecm drones and sentry/heavy who gives slight dps boost )
Stratios are counter productive by using drones ? i don't think so
i don't understand you'r argument

but you'r rebalance seems good (that just make me sad to see the ecm bonuses on widow removed :/)


Drones are counter productive because while they are out you can't cloak, if your buddy has his out and you just in range of his orbiting drones yo still can't cloak, see my reasoning? Also if you gotta jump away in a hurry you will leave your drones behind because the cost of your ship is more important, so simply just get rid of the drones.

Yes drones on the Stratios is counter productive.

About the Widow, I have one, has no ecm moduels on it.... pure shield torpedo widow, more survivable, ecm widow is usually left on field to die and save the other blops.


Dominix usually field sentry drones right? So then recalling drones doesn't take much longer than actually dragging them back to the drone bay. From what I understand people usually fit Stratios with four of each type of sentry and then some ecm and light drones for clean up, that way your sentries don't get in the way of cloaking if you run from them and you can easily drop EC-300s to manufacture an escape.
Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#17 - 2014-08-11 04:09:22 UTC
An idea for a second tier of Black Ops could be the following.

[To Be Named Abaddon Hull] (H7 / M5 / L7 : T5 / L0)

Amarr Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Armor Repairer amount
10% remote Capacitor Transmitter amount

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Armor Repairer and capacitor transmitter range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 29.4km Range for Cap at level 5)

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

[To Be Named Rokh Hull] (H7 / M7 / L5 : T0 / L5)

Caldari Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Shield Booster amount
10% remote Capacitor Transmitter amount

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Shield Booster and Capacitor Transmitter range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 29.4km Range for Cap at level 5)

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

[To Be Named Hyperion Hull] (H6 / M6 / L7 : T5 / L0)

Gallente Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Armor Repairer amount
10% remote Tracking Computer effectiveness

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Armor Repairer and Tracking Computer range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 19.5km Range for Tracking Computer at level 5)

[To Be Named Maelstrom Hull] (H6 / M7 / L6 : T5 / L0)

Minmatar Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Shield Booster amount
10% remote Tracking Computer effectiveness

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Shield Booster and Tracking Computer range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 19.5km Range for Tracking Computer at level 5)

The 25% reduced Spool-Up would mean 6.75 second activation, 50% would be 4.5 second activation.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#18 - 2014-08-11 10:14:55 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
An idea for a second tier of Black Ops could be the following.

[To Be Named Abaddon Hull] (H7 / M5 / L7 : T5 / L0)

Amarr Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Armor Repairer amount
10% remote Capacitor Transmitter amount

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Armor Repairer and capacitor transmitter range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 29.4km Range for Cap at level 5)

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

[To Be Named Rokh Hull] (H7 / M7 / L5 : T0 / L5)

Caldari Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Shield Booster amount
10% remote Capacitor Transmitter amount

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Shield Booster and Capacitor Transmitter range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 29.4km Range for Cap at level 5)

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

[To Be Named Hyperion Hull] (H6 / M6 / L7 : T5 / L0)

Gallente Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Armor Repairer amount
10% remote Tracking Computer effectiveness

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Armor Repairer and Tracking Computer range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 19.5km Range for Tracking Computer at level 5)

[To Be Named Maelstrom Hull] (H6 / M7 / L6 : T5 / L0)

Minmatar Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% remote Shield Booster amount
10% remote Tracking Computer effectiveness

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced fuel requirements for bridging
40% remote Shield Booster and Tracking Computer range (25.2km Range for Repairs and 19.5km Range for Tracking Computer at level 5)

The 25% reduced Spool-Up would mean 6.75 second activation, 50% would be 4.5 second activation.




nanananan , black ops logi will be IMHO really too stronk and OP
black ops warfare don't need and don't must be like a regular fleet with cloaking capability

we have enough problems with regular power projection , don't make an other one with cloacky power projection with full advantage of cloak
Grunnax Aurelius
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2014-08-11 10:55:14 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
nanananan , black ops logi will be IMHO really too stronk and OP
black ops warfare don't need and don't must be like a regular fleet with cloaking capability

we have enough problems with regular power projection , don't make an other one with cloacky power projection with full advantage of cloak


Just make the second tier pure bonuses to like the following to make them more designed for bridging then.

[Racial] Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% increased Isotope fuel bay
5% bonus to [Racial] weapon system damage

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced Isotope requirements for Covert Jump Portal Generator
10% increased Covert Jump Portal Generator bridge range

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-08-11 11:08:31 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
nanananan , black ops logi will be IMHO really too stronk and OP
black ops warfare don't need and don't must be like a regular fleet with cloaking capability

we have enough problems with regular power projection , don't make an other one with cloacky power projection with full advantage of cloak


Just make the second tier pure bonuses to like the following to make them more designed for bridging then.

[Racial] Battleship skill bonuses per level:
10% increased Isotope fuel bay
5% bonus to [Racial] weapon system damage

Black Ops skill bonuses per level:
10% reduced Isotope requirements for Covert Jump Portal Generator
10% increased Covert Jump Portal Generator bridge range

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Black Ops Cloaking Device, Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
· No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation
· (25% or 50% to be decided) reduced Spool-Up time on Large Micro Jumpdrives


so i can now bridge farther then i can jump? in some cases sure that could be useful but not most and this will just make BLOPS worse then they currently are. also fuel bay increase is good but isotope need is not that is put there to keep you from bridging to much to far.
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