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EVE Lore: Questioning, Ship Crews and their purpose.

First post
Author
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-08-15 04:36:44 UTC
Brink Albosa wrote:
I think a Rifter like mine would have myself, plus around 12-15 crewmembers. A gunner for each weapon, I imagine there's like 3-5 people in my damage control that run around with the duct tape, etc.


Officially, it's one crewman at most on a capsule-flown frigate. A flight engineer, effectively, most likely sitting at a console troubleshooting and directing some drones rather than actually crawling around with a spanner. Think the flight engineer on the flight deck of a commercial airliner.

After all, outside of teh flight deck everybody else on the crew of a real-world airliner are there for the passengers rather than for operating the aircraft. A Lockheed AC-130 is about as close to a Rifter as you're going to get, and that has a crew compliment of 14, but of course those aren't capsule-flown.

Remember: You don't need one gunner per weapon because that's your character's job. The capsuleer is the pilot, the navigator, the sensors officer, communications, all the gunners and the commander all at once. When that much of the work is all being done by one guy, what's left over is the need for a guy who can physically throw some breakers and maybe kick the autoloader if it jams. You don't need fourteen bodies on board for that.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#22 - 2014-08-15 08:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Stitcher wrote:
Brink Albosa wrote:
I think a Rifter like mine would have myself, plus around 12-15 crewmembers. A gunner for each weapon, I imagine there's like 3-5 people in my damage control that run around with the duct tape, etc.


Officially, it's one crewman at most on a capsule-flown frigate.


Only smaller capsuleer frigates typically run crew-less or with just one. Larger capsuleer frigates, "tend to number no more than a dozen".


That being said, yeah you wouldn't have individual gunners. In a frigate you might have a person or two manning a single gunnery station for the entire weapon assembly, who handle utility work or possibly perform emergency maintenance, but the targeting selection is done by the capsuleer and the aiming and reloading is likely automated (as with modern turrets).
Rezan Tepet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-08-15 16:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rezan Tepet
And again, part of that depends on how much the manufacturer-nation's invested in replacing meat with drones/automated systems. So you're going to see fewer NPC sub-crew on Gallente boats, and more on Caldari/Amarr/Minmatar. A capsuleer Tristan might only fly with the capsuleer himself, and the rest of the functions are maintained by drones.

Also, the popular subs-in-space imagery I think is a little more analogous to what EVE's lore would be (i.e. sea-craft being more analogous than sky-craft), so if we're going to look at ship crews for reference, airships like the Lockheed might not hold up insomuch compared to naval frigates.

I do agree that 12-15 is a lot for a Rifter, or really any Frigate (especially capsuleer-directed).

However, I do expect Minmatar crews to have people who specialize in hitting things, probably with hammers, when they stop working. It's actually possible to surmise that Minmatar guns don't reload; they just jam, and thus the "reload time" is a guy kicking the guns on the inside until they work again. (I kid, I kid)

oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| _n. — _Term given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."  _adj. — _[see: "moss" "mossy"] slang— crazy, insane

Bessa Miros
#24 - 2014-08-15 18:31:39 UTC
How disruptive would it be to change the ships exploding to being disabled and having to be "towed" or "salvaged" on the spot. You'd need to buy (modules) parts to rebuild and make whole again. Explosions could change to escape pods graphics of crew members (killable) before the ship goes dark. Unclaimed dark ships should be infested with drones and become a mission for someone else. and so on.

I guess thats a different space game.

Cainan Amaro Cathak
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-08-16 01:12:28 UTC
As my ship size increases, I fully intend to imagine that my crew is holding parades in my honor.

Before you scoff, know that my capital ships will have compulsory raves with vented heat lamps powered by offsetting the waste heat from the capital lazorz. I'm working on the necessary wording for a petition to Amarr High Command to have the Avatar's Doomsday weapon refit for a Dubstep weapon.

You should all start sinking money into your Exotic Dancer, Male & Exotic Dancer, Female stock now.

"Here we are, born to be kings/We're the Princes of the Universe!"

Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#26 - 2014-08-16 04:24:57 UTC
15, 30 or 70 trillion base population is, while not irrelevant, a moot point in the face of the genocide-level losses of life.

If the proposed number of dead is 5 trillion a year, or say 3 trillion conservatively, New Eden has been driven back into the dark ages over the last decade. Even at the high end of 80 trillion base population and conservative losses of 20 trillion, you have a net loss of 25% of the population. A generous rate of serviceable bodies would be 60% of the total population, assuming that all levels of education were acceptable, no percentage of the population unemployable due to infirmity or disability, and that every task can be performed by someone between the ages of 18 to 65.

So out of 48 trillion employable bodies 20 trillion have been biomassed in the last decade, while the number of dependents has largely remained the same. New Eden has lost 41% of not only it's working class, but also it's reproductive members, in about half the time it takes to raise the next generation. Assuming a generous galaxy-wide growth rate of 2% per year would basically be saying that society forgot what contraceptives were also, while paying no heed to the incredible amount of stress being put on the reproducing population. Keep in mind that that rate of growth takes in all other mortality rates, including terran wars.

So assuming the best case scenario, New Eden has been hemorrhaging at least twice as many able-bodied people as it is producing every year for a decade running, and shows no signs of stopping any time soon. Good luck with dreaming up a society or an economy that can survive that.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Tac The Pilot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-08-16 09:26:23 UTC
Also we can't forget that some ships, like carriers and there fighter drones already have stated crew in them. I love the idea that I have a crew aboard my ships, and I'd love to see some way to interact/ influence there skill. Maybe the spaceship command skill gets changed to mention that ot helps you fly ships that have larger mandatory crews (as a reason for needing the skill) and maybe a new slot someware on each ship that let's you upgrade/change your crew around to give some minor passive buffs, use the slots currently only used by T3 cruisers for crew interaction maybe? Just throwin ideas out here.
Rezan Tepet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-08-16 14:57:43 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
New Eden has lost 41% of not only it's working class, but also it's reproductive members, in about half the time it takes to raise the next generation. Assuming a generous galaxy-wide growth rate of 2% per year would basically be saying that society forgot what contraceptives were also, while paying no heed to the incredible amount of stress being put on the reproducing population. Keep in mind that that rate of growth takes in all other mortality rates, including terran wars.

So assuming the best case scenario, New Eden has been hemorrhaging at least twice as many able-bodied people as it is producing every year for a decade running, and shows no signs of stopping any time soon. Good luck with dreaming up a society or an economy that can survive that.


Again, you have to remember that tube babies are a thing in New Eden, so while we don't really know the specifics (i.e. are the babies grown in a human womb or gestated in a mechanical device), we can assume that birth rates can be altered and significantly increased to counteract the loss of life. Furthermore, while members of the social elite in Amarr are forbidden from cloning, nothing is said about abuse of cloning technology for the explicit purpose of creating meat to function on ships.

If you've ever read Cloud Atlas (and I highly recommend you do*), the near-future scenario details this McDonald's-like fast food joint "where the waitresses all had the same face." Suffice to say, when cloning becomes a possibility, the first thing a hypothetical dystopian grimdark future will consider is, "Oh yes, slave race!" While slavery is not sanctioned by three of the five empires, economic slavery is a little more of a grey area, particularly given the Caldari's inclination towards megacorporations.

The point I'm endeavoring to reach is that, combining cloning tech with the potential to remove human gestation from the picture means that, due to the number of gametes the human body can produce, you can circumnavigate the limiters on strictly human reproduction, effectively skyrocketing the effective population growth. I'm not sure if you can fully replace a trillion lost per year, but again, the numbers are a tad fuzzy because we don't know how many hands are lost on ships (capsuleer or otherwise) nor can we pin down the effective modified birth rate. Morally—and probably logically as well—a society as a whole would (supposition here, but follow me) likely only sanction this action if those bodies were put to a use to benefit that society as a whole.

Again, I'm not saying this is what's happening; my goal, like CCP Falcon, is to find ways to defend the existing fiction with the armaments given in the lore. It's good that we challenge it, as it can set the atmosphere and tone for further writing. And in the end, what we all want is a good story. And pew pew.

*Don't watch the movie. Love to the Wachowskis but you just can't capture Cloud Atlas in three hours

oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| _n. — _Term given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."  _adj. — _[see: "moss" "mossy"] slang— crazy, insane

Rezan Tepet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-08-16 15:08:52 UTC
Tac The Pilot wrote:
Also we can't forget that some ships, like carriers and there fighter drones already have stated crew in them. I love the idea that I have a crew aboard my ships, and I'd love to see some way to interact/ influence there skill. Maybe the spaceship command skill gets changed to mention that ot helps you fly ships that have larger mandatory crews (as a reason for needing the skill) and maybe a new slot someware on each ship that let's you upgrade/change your crew around to give some minor passive buffs, use the slots currently only used by T3 cruisers for crew interaction maybe? Just throwin ideas out here.


The problem (or one of them, rather; maybe the big one counter to this illusion) is the potential for players to switch ships, and the ease by which they are destroyed.

Let's say I have the ability to fly a Wyvern-class Caldari supercarrier. This thing (I should hope) takes a big crew to operate, even with a capsuleer at the bridge. If the recent trailer is any indication, those are humans in the fighters/fighter-bombers, despite being called "drones" in-game—though, who knows, maybe capsuleers can control them remotely as though they were drones?

So, what does that supercarrier crew do when I go out in my T2 frigate to run the new Burner Missions or do a pvp roam with my gang?

I guess you could say they get shore leave in a friendly station, or do dock maintenance while I'm away. Because you're not going to take all (if any) of that crew with you when you go romping around in your Rifter. But having a crew for your Rattlesnake and your Wyvern would feel redundant and inefficient, but maybe that's just how it is (especially if they're in two systems across New Eden).

Anyways, food for thought.

oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| _n. — _Term given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."  _adj. — _[see: "moss" "mossy"] slang— crazy, insane

Jason Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-08-16 17:48:53 UTC
Well you don't really park a super capital anywhere in space because it's too much of a risk, those things are killmail / hijack magnets. And they can't dock either so generally their crew would be rotated like any large naval ship floating around at sea.

In practice we generally make a specialised toon to fly a super cap, and that toon basically never leaves the ship, because they can't dock in a station the only truly safe place for super capitals is logged off

Nit picking aside Smile One would assume that the crew would operate like any other temporary labour force.

While your Dread, Carrier, Rorqual, Vexor or whatever is docked up, the crew is finished with that particular work contract, and they go to their Labour Broker / Employment Agent and get a new assignment.

As an aside regarding mortality rates. I have a few accounts and each has 3 toons. I've been in the noob channels a lot. There are some pretty daft buggers out there, begging and trying to scam / steal an ISK here or there perma squatting in hisec who will never get very far because they think too small, and they're RL gamers.

We never see any stats on NPC Capsuleers, we really know nothing about Capsuleers and clones in general. Who is to say that NPC Capsuleers don't have - when compared to Player Capsuleers anyway - pretty poor Capsuleers and really bloody awful Capsuleers. And what about the rest, the NPC dropouts . . . ?

Who is to say that the PC and NPC combat ships out there are not crewed 99.999% by respawning clones who couldn't make the grade and graduate as "Capsuleers" I.E. the Pator Tech School etc. dropouts.

Yes, the captain's quarters are locked because the station environment is not sufficiently decontaminated for Capsuleer consumption or some such blah blah, but that does not seem to mean that every cone either needs a capsule or needs to live in a sterile environment, only that your Capsuleer clone needs to be decontaminated. The quarantine obviously only applies to those who have to interface with a Pod.

The DUST Mercs don't have pods, they are hulkamaniacs that run around on the ground blowing stuff up. Perhaps our crews are comprised mostly of clones too, clones of regular possibly above average intelligence individuals who didn't make it to Capsules and who don't have enhanced physical attributes.

Well that's what I always assumed anyway, the advent of the DUST Mercs just kinda confirmed it for me.
.
Rezan Tepet
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-08-16 18:02:15 UTC
Jason Atavuli wrote:
Perhaps our crews are comprised mostly of clones too, clones of regular possibly above average intelligence individuals who didn't make it to Capsules and who don't have enhanced physical attributes.


Yes. I kind of reached that conclusion myself, above. Only I'm not so certain that our crews are possessed of "above average intelligence." I'd rather surmise that they're just clones, no different from the early Imperial Army in Star Wars (the prequels) or the clones from Cloud Atlas. The population of New Eden magnified in exponential factors to crew and maintain ships; ultimately expendable; a coerced race (cloned slaves for Amarr, wageslaves for Caldari, largely drones but also lower-class citizenry for Gallente and, well...duct tape and monkey wrenches for Minmatar. For Jove, who knows?). Perhaps there are no escape pods. Perhaps it is all hands lost. Perhaps for every one of New Eden's citizenry, there are a thousand of his/her clones running about, staffing stations and crewing ships, capsuleer or otherwise, and if the population ever dips, it's like the Federal Reserve—print us up another billion bodies!

There's your grimdark, EVE.

oaramos: |oh-WAR-uh-mohs| _n. — _Term given to early Caldarian wormhole explorers. From Rataani language; literally, "Wave-jumper."  _adj. — _[see: "moss" "mossy"] slang— crazy, insane

Jason Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-08-16 18:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Atavuli
It certainly is possible that some would cloned slaves, like the Amarr. Doubt the idea would fly too high in Gallente space and not at all in Minmatar space, unless they were cloned Amarr nobles LOL

I'd always assumed the crews were mostly clones of regular folks (say 50% of the populace) that made the cut and got into the Capsuleer programs at the various universities, but didn't graduate in the top few percent to be able to fly a pod and get the perks that came along with it, like a free Ibis and the ability to inject skill books.

And that these folks respawned in the nearest station and went back to work or home if the ship they were working on was popped while they were still aboard.

It certainly is a more bunny hugging and tree whispering sort of happy scenario, than the genocide of billions of men and women with families who rely on them to put food on the table Blink
.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#33 - 2014-08-16 22:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bohneik Itohn
Rezan Tepet wrote:
Tac The Pilot wrote:
Also we can't forget that some ships, like carriers and there fighter drones already have stated crew in them. I love the idea that I have a crew aboard my ships, and I'd love to see some way to interact/ influence there skill. Maybe the spaceship command skill gets changed to mention that ot helps you fly ships that have larger mandatory crews (as a reason for needing the skill) and maybe a new slot someware on each ship that let's you upgrade/change your crew around to give some minor passive buffs, use the slots currently only used by T3 cruisers for crew interaction maybe? Just throwin ideas out here.
The problem (or one of them, rather; maybe the big one counter to this illusion) is the potential for players to switch ships, and the ease by which they are destroyed. Let's say I have the ability to fly a Wyvern-class Caldari supercarrier. This thing (I should hope) takes a big crew to operate, even with a capsuleer at the bridge. If the recent trailer is any indication, those are humans in the fighters/fighter-bombers, despite being called "drones" in-game—though, who knows, maybe capsuleers can control them remotely as though they were drones? So, what does that supercarrier crew do when I go out in my T2 frigate to run the new Burner Missions or do a pvp roam with my gang? I guess you could say they get shore leave in a friendly station, or do dock maintenance while I'm away. Because you're not going to take all (if any) of that crew with you when you go romping around in your Rifter. But having a crew for your Rattlesnake and your Wyvern would feel redundant and inefficient, but maybe that's just how it is (especially if they're in two systems across New Eden). Anyways, food for thought.



The issue with the clone argument is expense and availability. Capsuleers enjoy our nice cheap clones essentially because of game mechanics. Expensive clones would discourage PvP.

The availability of cloning technology is also a bit of a conundrum that doesn't get discussed, because if it was so widely available as to counterbalance the number of deaths why wouldn't everyone on the ship be plugged in to make reforming your crew an easier process? If you assume cheap and widely available cloning then the next logical conclusion is that all crew members would become capsuleers, because replacing skilled crew members with new and inexperienced hands would quickly become more expensive (ask any decent business owner whether it's cheaper to give a skilled and productive senior worker a reasonable raise to keep him attached to the company or to hire a new face and teach them everything over again), while spreading capsuleer technology to the entire crew would reduce the overall cost of medical clone facilities and vastly reduce the amount of crew needed just like any other capsuleer. It would improve the morale of the crew and ensure a higher efficiency, even among the slaves, while also guaranteeing loyalty since the expense is covered by the "captain" who is basically assuring their immortality, instead of assuring their swift demise and a paltry insurance payment to the bereft, assuming he insured the ship and that the crew is covered in our insurance policies.

Free market rules in Eve, and if cloning were not expensive and only available to a select few (pirate factions use breeding facilities, captured slaves and non-capsuleer ships precisely because they are cheaper and the pirates are not bound by any ethics committees or such) we would have an entirely different background for New Eden, something that would have to be rebuilt from the ground up (literally starting planet-side) in my opinion.

That's also something worth pointing out. In-game lore, structures and activities actively point out that cloning of the common ship-hand is not happening, and just the exact opposite. The pirates, who are the very people who would benefit the most from this practice since they don't have to go through the trouble of waiting around for enough people to decide that a pirate's life is the life for them, are using more traditional methods to raise members that know nothing but their society and ethos or to subjugate the unwilling.

Edit: Of course if I had taken the time to think I would have also realized that clone soldiers do exist in Eve, and they are the exception to the rule. As low sec belt rats with a low spawn rate which capsuleers can get a large reward and favor for finding and destroying because of their threat and scarcity, these NPC's go to further the case that cloning is only available to the elite, it is expensive, and not in wide use among factions that see some of the heaviest losses of life.

You can't tell me those Sansha Incursions (plus the modifications that allow the captured civilians to be controlled) are a cheap endeavor on their part, and cloning has to be at least mildly more expensive than that, or they wouldn't bother.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Jason Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-08-17 00:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Atavuli
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
You can't tell me those Sansha Incursions (plus the modifications that allow the captured civilians to be controlled) are a cheap endeavor on their part, and cloning has to be at least mildly more expensive than that, or they wouldn't bother.


To each their own I guess, but don't forget that in EVE clones are not massed armies of duplicates based upon an individual, it's an explanation of the respawn game mechanic. A system that creates a new you when the old one dies.

Sansha's nation does not want a new you when you die. They shackle captured civilians to remove their free will and take them 1 step below slaves. Slaves may still balk at going suicidal, whereas Sansha zealots would do as they were told. The lore does make mention that there are only a few select officers in the ranks of Sansha's nation that retain some of their free will, all the rest are completely subjugated to the point where the believe this is what they want for themselves and that they are living in a paradise.

Also, the capsuleer tech, including cloning was gifted to the Empires by the Jove, this is I would guess, why only the Empire schools have this technology, and not Sansha's nation or the other Pirate factions.

Possibly Jovian cloning tech was designed to specifically not allow mass duplication of one's consciousness, rendering it useless for mass duplication of individuals in order to create armies, a fresh clone is probably useless without a consciousness to drive it.

To be completely honest the whole thing, capsules, clones, transferring of consciousness, it all vibes like a "Long Con" by the Jove to keep control of the empires by:

A) Causing a distraction to prevent the Empires from paying too much attention to the Jove because the Empires are too busy watching the capsuleers - as is hinted at in the EVE vids.

B) Giving the Jove an extra "Ace in the hole" if the Empires turn their collective attention the Jove - who knows what the Jove can do with / to Capsuleers who are after all products of a Jovian cloning process.

C) Giving the Empires something that they can use, but apparently can't seem to bend to their will too readily I.E. you can create a Capsuleer, Merc etc. Someone who can't die, but you can't create an army of duplicates of that soldier who cannot die with this cloning tech. Another distraction I rate, keep the Empires busy trying to reverse engineer the Jovian tech instead of trying to create their own clones from scratch. Why reinvent the wheel right?


EDIT:
Please also take note (being really literal here) that respawning in EVE is free, upgrading your clone to accommodate your SP is what costs ISK. Therefore if your high risk, skilled (job skills here, not Capsuleer skills since these are not Capsuleers we're talking about but regular Joe's) labour force were EVE cloned, it would be a good investment since they would not be lost due to death, they'd merely respawn in station or a clone vat bay on a capital, for free...
.
Darsena Izuma
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2014-08-19 15:46:51 UTC
This is what confuses me: obviously most crew are "baseliners," not cloned, and while there might be escape pods, going into risky situations spells a real potential for injury or death for a great many of them.

So how, from a lore perspective, might we explain how groups like, say, CODE. can consistently re-crew their many ships that they use to constantly suicide gank with? At some point, wouldn't word get around, and people would simply refuse to hire on with people who are known to simply throw away ships and crew lives? Or wouldn't a crew, regardless of whatever contract they signed, balk at following orders when their ship is about to attack someone unprovoked in high-security space?

Are they all slaves, or brainwashed? Or can we assume that there are enough willing volunteers of various creeds and backgrounds that there will always be someone willing to do (and willing to agree with) whatever it is any capsuleer is setting out to do, and we can just assume that these are the crews that we have very selectively recruited "off-camera?"

Fedo are not what they seem to be.  Welcome to Night Vale.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#36 - 2014-08-19 16:07:35 UTC
Darsena Izuma wrote:
This is what confuses me: obviously most crew are "baseliners," not cloned, and while there might be escape pods, going into risky situations spells a real potential for injury or death for a great many of them.

So how, from a lore perspective, might we explain how groups like, say, CODE. can consistently re-crew their many ships that they use to constantly suicide gank with? At some point, wouldn't word get around, and people would simply refuse to hire on with people who are known to simply throw away ships and crew lives? Or wouldn't a crew, regardless of whatever contract they signed, balk at following orders when their ship is about to attack someone unprovoked in high-security space?


CCP Eterne wrote:
Because suicide ganking generally only requires you to have a round or two of ammo loaded and your guns pointed at a target, your crew turns everything on, runs to the escape pods, and ejects when CONCORD comes.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2577717#post2577717
Darsena Izuma
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-08-19 16:41:38 UTC
Thanks!

Fedo are not what they seem to be.  Welcome to Night Vale.

Charles Muffins
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-08-19 23:01:24 UTC
You have to remember that since Amarr use Minmatar slaves (and other conquered people), a blown up Avatar may not not be 100% Amarr lives lost.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#39 - 2014-08-27 01:57:20 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:

The issue with the clone argument is expense and availability. Capsuleers enjoy our nice cheap clones essentially because of game mechanics. Expensive clones would discourage PvP.

. . . If you assume cheap and widely available cloning then the next logical conclusion is that all crew members would become capsuleers. . .

Cheap? Capsuleer clones aren't that cheap for older characters.

I should mention that being able to be cloned doesn't automatically make one capable of being a capsuleer, and in fact isn't even required. There were capsuleers before cloning became common. The main requirement of a capsuller is to be able to properly interface with the ships systems, and not everyone can do that.


I know slow cloning hasn't been explicitly confirmed by CCP (nor has it been explicitly ruled out), but It may be reasonable for more experienced crew to be candidates for being restored from a back up should they die. With the new sleeper based implants for DUST mercs, maybe we will see some DUST based clones as crewmen rather than infantry. I still don't think the majority of the crew will be clones, though.

As far as losing crew when the ship explodes. They do have escape pods. I wouldn't be surprised if the ship automatically sounds evacuation when one of the HP alarms goes of (armor or shields would depend on who makes the ship and their preferred tank). The eve wiki page on ship crews mentions survivability rates, so we know not all hands are lost.
Vlademyr
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#40 - 2014-08-28 21:02:17 UTC
Rezan Tepet wrote:
Why Capsuleers Just Don't Care (or, why NPC crew isn't a thing we talk about):

We have to remember Player Privilege here.

I'm not sure if that's the term, or if there's already trope terminology for it, but it's the narrative complex that sets PCs aside as "special." I just call it Player Privilege, particularly when it comes to MMOs. A non-EVE example would be like in Titanfall, why human players are "more dangerous"Question than NPC pilots (I don't know if they explain that like EVE's capsuleers; I've never played it—I just know that's a "thing"). In short, some of the crew interaction (or lack thereof) can be explained by operating on the illusion that capsuleers are, for lack of a better term, absolutely baller. Again, while it's kind of the extreme end of the illustration, we have T-shirts that cost more than battleships. That's some #swagger, yo. We don't deal with NPC crews for the same reason Beyonce doesn't deal with the stagehands that build her music video's set: the hiring of or firing of or disciplining of or even the interacting with the crew is done by somebody else (i.e. an agent or similarly-functioning background party), because we're totally—economically and socially—on a different level.

From one perspective, capsuleers are drug-addled immortal cyber soldiers that directly interface with wartime hardware on a level that can outperform thousands of people doing that same job, such that they can sail that hardware into a conflict situation with odds as great as or even sometimes worse than 10:1, and then wipe the floor with the first ship they lock onto before its comms officer can scream to the captain and their fleet, "IT'S A GUND—"

When that perspective is taken into account, yeah, if I'm an NPC mook, I'd be saying, "I wanna sail with that guy. Hashtag-YOLO, hashtag-unless-you're-a-capsuleer-amirite?" Because you'd be sailing with a captain who's the genetic cocktail of Robocop, Hunter S. Thompson, Mick Jagger and Jesus (sub in Amy Winehouse over Mick for the ladies). Shake well, serve over ice and, for null-sec, garnish with a dash of Charles Manson.

And when your little sometimes-strangely-placed-window peekers don't make it out of that gate camp alive, you—you alone—wake up all shiny and new ready to reach for your next martini as you lay down the platinum insurance on your next sweet ride. This is the life every late 80s rock star wishes they had, and some of them were convinced they were gods. Is it any wonder, then, why we neither see nor care about the passing of our crew?

~*Thought break*~

In my ramblings, it would appear that a new theory presents itself:

Consider the capsuleer v. not-capsuleer population of New Eden. I'm not sure what the exact number is, but suffice to say the overwhelming majority of capsuleers are the player base, because Player Privilege, or whatever it's called. We are, of course, dwarfed by the population of NPC New Eden by a factor of thousands, including both our crews and those of the rats we kill. Those 400-500k NPC crew hands were not flying with capsuleers.

So let's follow this logic into the land of possibility.

Under certain numbers, we might actually be able to come to conclusion that, despite the illusion of the contrary, an NPC crewmate's chances of survival would increase on a capsuleer ship. The reason would be that, for every capsuleer ship that falls, even counting FW ones, there are less on board personnel for PC ships, and there's just as many if not more carebears flying security missions in hi-sec wiping out 100 to 1,000 times the roster of their ship—depending on how you add up the numbers—on the daily, tipping the scales in the favor of surviving to a healthy retirement by signing on with a capsuleer. This is all well and good, but then factor in the fact that your captain is rockstar Killer Jesus ver. 6.0, and if the numbers add up, hell yes I want on that ship.

I have not the time nor capability to really crunch the numbers to verify that, because the level of speculation relies on theories upon theories, but it'd be an interesting spot of research for someone AFK mining to do, if they're looking to verify some of the existing atmosphere with numbers. Because we all love numbers in EVE.


People like you are the reason i still play this game.