These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Perspective from a New Player
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#41 - 2014-08-09 16:36:26 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:


I am starting to get a sense that this is a universe where the most experienced players can pretty much act with impunity and everyone else is basically at their mercy.


FYP

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-08-09 16:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
I've been playing Eve for less than a month. I have never played an MMO before. I thought I would share some of my impressions with the community and what I am experiencing. I don't read much about Eve, so I have no idea what current or past issues are or much else about the game. I like spaceships, and I really loved Homeworld.

I like the complexity of the game - having to learn how to scan, how to plot routes through the galaxy, learning skills to make things work better, the marketplace for ores and such. The idea that I can just go anywhere I want and do whatever I want is very appealing and enjoyable - at first.

The stations and star systems all start to look the same to me after a while. Eve is a dim galaxy - the stars don't seem to provide much light. Going from one place to another starts losing excitement after a while, because there are few to no interesting variations in the star systems. For fun I did a loop of 20 jumps the other day through 0.0 zones in my venture. I survived by not using auto-pilot and going on one direction and never down to a culdesac where I'd have to turn around. After a while, I realized that there's just not a lot of creativity put into making the star systems unique from one another visually. The same planets, the same stations, etc over and over again everywhere. At first it seems varied, but after a while - boring.

I am starting to get a sense that this is a universe where the most experienced players can pretty much act with impunity and everyone else is basically at their mercy. Like the real world, money drives power, but is offset slightly with a tenure requirement that the skill system builds in.

The initial missions were OK, but once I was done with Aura and the career agents at Pasha, I was kind of lost after that. What do I do now? PVP? Hell no. I realize that the people who have pod killed me so far have played for years, and have just about every skill at level V, plus they have a gang of other kids they hang out with to back them up. So that's out.

Join a corp? I have a job. I play only when I have spare time. I am not going to show up to events or make this an important part of my life. Eve seems to not be good for casual gamers.

So my choices are to mine and run missions. Mining is pretty borked up, it seems to me. The ore values are all very similar, and looking at the markets, the prices are constantly dropping, and the more rare ores are only slightly more valuable most of the time. Mining veldspar with little travel is most lucrative in terms of ISK/hr.

I do not understand why NPC pirates do not show in the directional scanner.

I do not understand why agents giving the next missions are scattered about the galaxy instead of just popping up in your home station. I don't understand why the last agent didn't point me to the next one instead of me having to search for them. After I finished the career missions, I didn't even know there were more agents.

The agent missions are all security missions in my constellation. I'm a noob, so I am not leaving my little area of ten or so hi-sec star systems any time soon because I am afraid to be killed and have to do all of that boring mining again to buy a new ship.

Insurance is broken. I could only insure my venture for 350K, but with all of the goodies on it, it cost me a fortune to fit with good modules.

The most important thing I could share is that the community is unfriendly, probably because of the nature of the game, and seems to bring out the worst in people. The rule is very old west - shoot first, talk after. It's left me with the impression that the community are not nice people, and that everyone is basically laughing as they shoot up noobs while the noobs come and then quit because studying for a month to just die a lot and mining sucks.

I tried injecting some helpfulness into the game myself by flying my ship around and guarding noobs mining from NPC pirates in some of the systems I frequent. I could not hope to guard them from hostile players. I notice no one ever does that.

So, PVP seems like something I never want to do, mining is boring, and I have not yet decided whether or not to buy another month. Possibly not.

When the remaster of homeworld comes out, I think I am out of here, because while the game is pretty, it only has two modes: repetitive and boring or exciting and over in ten seconds with someone PMing me that I am a noob ******* in Russian.

Those are my thoughts. Flame on.


Lovely. Wrote a grand response and the post was eaten. Contact me in game for help.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#43 - 2014-08-09 16:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Lovely. Wrote a grand response and the post was eaten. Contact me in game for help.

lol welcome to the Eve forums

ctrl c and ctrl v are survival traits for your posts. Occasionally you think you got lucky when the forum pops up with the "you have a saved draft" notification; chances are you didn't, it lies about that a lot P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#44 - 2014-08-09 18:30:46 UTC
OP is spot on.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-08-10 12:51:43 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
[How is it bullying if the devs and GMs consider it to be legitimate gameplay and within the rules?


Friend, just because someone gives you permission to be a jerk in a game to others, doesn't reduce the impact to new players who are real people joining an MMO to be with other people. Not everyone agrees with CCP's policies and there are many examples of players that should have been insta banned for their conduct, but were not.

Do I really need to explain what being a bully is? Or are the thousands of references of the big kid in school picking on the new quiet kid not good enough? Just because the the teacher looks the other way, doesn't change how the new kid feels. So the new kids choice is to not participate, or of course join the bully group.

You are stuck in a false rule set. Being rude, hateful, teasing, derogatory or general bad form is wrong in game or out. Telling someone they are a noob and go home is a perfect example of a bully. Every game has that example, so EVE is not original, EVE just has a publisher that blurs the line between Griefing and being an effective fantasy Pirate.

Disagreement is not being negative by the way. Telling someone to leave because you disagree is though.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-08-10 13:07:26 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:

Do I really need to explain what being a bully is? Or are the thousands of references of the big kid in school picking on the new quiet kid not good enough? Just because the the teacher looks the other way, doesn't change how the new kid feels. So the new kids choice is to not participate, or of course join the bully group.

Bolded and underlined the more desirable outcome here.
Eve isn't primary school. It's a nasty, vicious universe, full of people who want to either take what you have, or see it explode spectacularly. It's also one that people partake in voluntarily.
Though, I will admit, I get irritated every time I hear someone refer to anyone else in this game as a "bully". It reeks of whiny, helpless childishness...which is something that is a major liability in a game set around the "HTFU" mentality.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#47 - 2014-08-10 13:15:34 UTC
Ramona always tole mi thet Eef wuz moar liek prizzon than skool.

Eye nevar wen to eethere sow eye dunno

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#48 - 2014-08-10 13:31:09 UTC
Billy McCandless wrote:
Ramona always tole mi thet Eef wuz moar liek prizzon than skool.

Eye nevar wen to eethere sow eye dunno

Prison's better, that's the truth.

Oh god.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#49 - 2014-08-10 14:03:36 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Billy McCandless wrote:
Ramona always tole mi thet Eef wuz moar liek prizzon than skool.

Eye nevar wen to eethere sow eye dunno

Prison's better, that's the truth.


Ramona sey she engoyed it moar two

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
beatlebutt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-08-10 14:16:58 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
I've been playing Eve for less than a month. I have never played an MMO before. I thought I would share some of my impressions with the community and what I am experiencing. I don't read much about Eve, so I have no idea what current or past issues are or much else about the game. I like spaceships, and I really loved Homeworld.

I like the complexity of the game - having to learn how to scan, how to plot routes through the galaxy, learning skills to make things work better, the marketplace for ores and such. The idea that I can just go anywhere I want and do whatever I want is very appealing and enjoyable - at first.

The stations and star systems all start to look the same to me after a while. Eve is a dim galaxy - the stars don't seem to provide much light. Going from one place to another starts losing excitement after a while, because there are few to no interesting variations in the star systems. For fun I did a loop of 20 jumps the other day through 0.0 zones in my venture. I survived by not using auto-pilot and going on one direction and never down to a culdesac where I'd have to turn around. After a while, I realized that there's just not a lot of creativity put into making the star systems unique from one another visually. The same planets, the same stations, etc over and over again everywhere. At first it seems varied, but after a while - boring.

I am starting to get a sense that this is a universe where the most experienced players can pretty much act with impunity and everyone else is basically at their mercy. Like the real world, money drives power, but is offset slightly with a tenure requirement that the skill system builds in.

The initial missions were OK, but once I was done with Aura and the career agents at Pasha, I was kind of lost after that. What do I do now? PVP? Hell no. I realize that the people who have pod killed me so far have played for years, and have just about every skill at level V, plus they have a gang of other kids they hang out with to back them up. So that's out.

Join a corp? I have a job. I play only when I have spare time. I am not going to show up to events or make this an important part of my life. Eve seems to not be good for casual gamers.

So my choices are to mine and run missions. Mining is pretty borked up, it seems to me. The ore values are all very similar, and looking at the markets, the prices are constantly dropping, and the more rare ores are only slightly more valuable most of the time. Mining veldspar with little travel is most lucrative in terms of ISK/hr.

I do not understand why NPC pirates do not show in the directional scanner.

I do not understand why agents giving the next missions are scattered about the galaxy instead of just popping up in your home station. I don't understand why the last agent didn't point me to the next one instead of me having to search for them. After I finished the career missions, I didn't even know there were more agents.

The agent missions are all security missions in my constellation. I'm a noob, so I am not leaving my little area of ten or so hi-sec star systems any time soon because I am afraid to be killed and have to do all of that boring mining again to buy a new ship.

Insurance is broken. I could only insure my venture for 350K, but with all of the goodies on it, it cost me a fortune to fit with good modules.

The most important thing I could share is that the community is unfriendly, probably because of the nature of the game, and seems to bring out the worst in people. The rule is very old west - shoot first, talk after. It's left me with the impression that the community are not nice people, and that everyone is basically laughing as they shoot up noobs while the noobs come and then quit because studying for a month to just die a lot and mining sucks.

I tried injecting some helpfulness into the game myself by flying my ship around and guarding noobs mining from NPC pirates in some of the systems I frequent. I could not hope to guard them from hostile players. I notice no one ever does that.

So, PVP seems like something I never want to do, mining is boring, and I have not yet decided whether or not to buy another month. Possibly not.

When the remaster of homeworld comes out, I think I am out of here, because while the game is pretty, it only has two modes: repetitive and boring or exciting and over in ten seconds with someone PMing me that I am a noob ******* in Russian.

Those are my thoughts. Flame on.


Very well written. CCP would do well to pay attention to what you have written.

There are a lot of good people that play eve, but the "bullies" get all the attention. I know they don't like being called that, but when you kill someone and then make fun of them later..that to me just reminds me of school yard bullies who beat you up and laugh at you later.

And it proves my point that everyone doesn't want to PVP. I have played since 08. The only PVP I do is fleet warfare..which is not the people you are running against.

I too think high sec should be safer and they should do work on missions. If it was up to me Concord would have a 5 second response in High Sec everywhere. Unless the ganker can Alpha you, you live.

CCP likes having a game within a game. Work on missions. Work on the new player experience. Pay attention to the feedback of people like you.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#51 - 2014-08-10 14:26:00 UTC
beatlebutt wrote:

There are a lot of good people that play eve, but the "bullies" get all the attention. I know they don't like being called that, but when you kill someone and then make fun of them later..that to me just reminds me of school yard bullies who beat you up and laugh at you later.


i crie evertim

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#52 - 2014-08-10 14:30:58 UTC
why come to the only game that has been infamous for over a decade because it allows a predator role
and then complain about it....why.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#53 - 2014-08-10 18:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Friend, just because someone gives you permission to be a jerk in a game to others, doesn't reduce the impact to new players who are real people joining an MMO to be with other people.
Have you ever played a full contact sport? Would you petition the appropriate authorities to change the rules of said full contact sport because you want to be playing a non contact sport? Eve is a full contact sport for the brain, if you don't like the rules there are plenty of other games that are non contact sports for the brain.

Quote:
Not everyone agrees with CCP's policies and there are many examples of players that should have been insta banned for their conduct, but were not.
The rules are the rules, as for your second point, you'd need to speak to CCP about that, discussion of bans on the forum is forbidden.

Quote:
Do I really need to explain what being a bully is? Or are the thousands of references of the big kid in school picking on the new quiet kid not good enough? Just because the the teacher looks the other way, doesn't change how the new kid feels. So the new kids choice is to not participate, or of course join the bully group.
I know exactly what bullying is TYVM. Telling people that they're wrong and should either learn to play the game as it exists or to play a game that may be more suited to them is not bullying, neither is blowing up their internet spaceships.

Quote:
You are stuck in a false rule set. Being rude, hateful, teasing, derogatory or general bad form is wrong in game or out. Telling someone they are a noob and go home is a perfect example of a bully. Every game has that example, so EVE is not original, EVE just has a publisher that blurs the line between Griefing and being an effective fantasy Pirate.
What about calling people seedy misfits? Wishing, crime, death, disaster and disease upon another person? How about hunting them down on the internet and then sending them emails with pictures of their house or family? Are these acceptable responses to having your internet spaceship blown up? These things happen every day in Eve, and they're generaly perpetrated by the the so called "victims"

Quote:
Disagreement is not being negative by the way. Telling someone to leave because you disagree is though.
I never said disagreement was negative, I was merely responding to the general negativity in your post.

Why do you play Eve if you believe it to be the moral cesspit of the gaming world?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#54 - 2014-08-10 19:03:14 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
why come to the only game that has been infamous for over a decade because it allows a predator role
and then complain about it....why.


If I knew the answer to this, I'd be a trillionaire by now lol. I don't get it either, in the past i've used the analogy of playing Grand Theft Auto and being offended at all the hHO slappin and car jackin that goes on.

I need a new one, maybe "Why did you go to a steak house for dinner when you knew you were a member of PETA" or something.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#55 - 2014-08-10 19:10:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Friend, just because someone gives you permission to be a jerk in a game to others, doesn't reduce the impact to new players who are real people joining an MMO to be with other people.
Have you ever played a full contact sport? Would you petition the appropriate authorities to change the rules of said full contact sport because you want to be playing a non contact sport? Eve is a full contact sport for the brain, if you don't like the rules there are plenty of other games that are non contact sports for the brain.

I really like this analogy.
I may have to steal it Jonah.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2014-08-10 19:15:32 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Friend, just because someone gives you permission to be a jerk in a game to others, doesn't reduce the impact to new players who are real people joining an MMO to be with other people.
Have you ever played a full contact sport? Would you petition the appropriate authorities to change the rules of said full contact sport because you want to be playing a non contact sport? Eve is a full contact sport for the brain, if you don't like the rules there are plenty of other games that are non contact sports for the brain.

I really like this analogy.
I may have to steal it Jonah.
I can't take credit for it, I think I stole some of it from De'Veldrin's sig a while back.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#57 - 2014-08-10 23:11:32 UTC
It's EVE. We eat our own...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Serene Repose
#58 - 2014-08-11 03:16:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
OMG! Wall of text city, Batman! New to the game? Try this:

Locate Tippia. Shoot Tippia. Bring us proof of Tippia's gender.

That'll keep you busy for a while. We need to know if we should call Tippia "he" or "she".

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Kristalll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-08-11 04:40:29 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
I read a thread this morning about "Why are the newbies leaving?" and I thought I should share my perspective.

I imagine that people who have been playing for along time are acclimated and probably not interested in seeing the game change to accomodate new players. I probably would not either. I'm in my 50's, and I'm not really interested in seeing much of my world changed for what younger people consider to be "better."

Oh well. I shared my experiences so far. There you go. I will play until this month's allottment runs out, then I'll decide whether or not to keep playing.



That's not really the thing.

The came is GREATLY in favor of newer players, and you spend exponentially longer time to get marginally better. This means a new player can be NEARLY as good VERY quickly.

There are PLENTY of awesome things new players can do with just a little imagination and spirit.

Herbinator d'Arcadie wrote:
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
I've been playing Eve for less than a month. I have never played an MMO before. I thought I would share some of my impressions with the community and what I am experiencing. ...

Great post! And welcome to Eve. CCP, the developer, says it will make some of the unknowns a little more clear to newer players. Do not hold breath.

Eve has a schism between new players and old. Old always trumps new. It's called Consensual PvP if it's between newbie and old. It's called Power Projection if it's between old and older.

Eve is territorially locked down by older players. Sorry. You should have joined many years ago. No 400 billion star systems here.

So, yes, you're "attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis." Your options are to join one of their corporations and pay/play for their enjoyment and benefit; or, play for three years'ish, safely all the while, and boringly (try making something from scratch to pass the time) and then move on to grief newer players yourself.

That's the game. No color, no imagination, no purpose of any kind. They call it a sandbox, others call it no content. Very dry, actually.

If you leave, as many suggest you should, then the schism becomes wider. It is like watching a chicken slice its own throat. Almost worth the price of admission just for that.



Please just leave. You're the reason new players leave the game. You just tell them they can't do things, and that they shouldn't even try, when the reality is that the whole world is open to them.

“Die trying” is the proudest human thing.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#60 - 2014-08-11 05:41:46 UTC
Kristalll wrote:

The came is GREATLY in favor of newer players, and you spend exponentially longer time to get marginally better. This means a new player can be NEARLY as good VERY quickly.

There are PLENTY of awesome things new players can do with just a little imagination and spirit.



If you are a new player I suggest you use your imagination to image yourself flying competitive ships, using competitive modules, and winning 1v1 PVP because you won't be doing it for a while in the game. My character will be 13 months old at the end of August and is considered "new." I am just starting to have fun going 1v1 with other players. I remember trying to fight 5 or 7 year old players with my T1 frigates, fittings, and low level gunnery skills during my first couple of MONTHS playing and giggle about it.