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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] K162 Signatures Appearing on First Jump

First post
Author
Phoenix Steele
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
#301 - 2014-08-30 16:27:12 UTC
So after the update, has anyone gotten a spawn to High sec or Low sec at all? Besides a static.
Experiment 32423
Doomheim
#302 - 2014-08-30 19:44:31 UTC
Phoenix Steele wrote:
So after the update, has anyone gotten a spawn to High sec or Low sec at all? Besides a static.


Yes, multiple. From my experience in the last days the random k-space spawn rate doesn't seem too different compared to before.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#303 - 2014-08-31 03:54:28 UTC
So I'm curious if anyone else thinks this change has actually backfired?

What I mean is that before the patch, when you saw a k162 appear, it was before anyone jumped through, but if you were online you were pretty assured there was someone on the other side.

Since the patch it has seemed in every case so far, a new k162 is actually one that showed up after its 16 hour timer. The reason being that when I check out a new k162 the systems have been completely empty. in most cases if I find a corp in the neighboring WH they seem to be active in timezones way outside mine.

So in a way it seems like the delayed appearance is making WH's feel even more empty than before.
Jezza McWaffle
Sunlight Corsairs
Kansas City Shuffle.
#304 - 2014-08-31 12:04:19 UTC
Phoenix Steele wrote:
So after the update, has anyone gotten a spawn to High sec or Low sec at all? Besides a static.


We've seen plenty of null sec connections but barely any low sec ones apart from static ones in low class holes.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog

Ang Min
CPD Adventures Pte. Ltd.
#305 - 2014-09-01 17:22:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So I'm curious if anyone else thinks this change has actually backfired?

What I mean is that before the patch, when you saw a k162 appear, it was before anyone jumped through, but if you were online you were pretty assured there was someone on the other side.

Since the patch it has seemed in every case so far, a new k162 is actually one that showed up after its 16 hour timer. The reason being that when I check out a new k162 the systems have been completely empty. in most cases if I find a corp in the neighboring WH they seem to be active in timezones way outside mine.

So in a way it seems like the delayed appearance is making WH's feel even more empty than before.


Yes. This was a ridiculous change, and the overwhelming majority of players told CCP it was a bad change, yet they rammed it down our throats anyway. Great move, CCP. :(
Dalron
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#306 - 2014-09-03 12:43:34 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So I'm curious if anyone else thinks this change has actually backfired?

What I mean is that before the patch, when you saw a k162 appear, it was before anyone jumped through, but if you were online you were pretty assured there was someone on the other side.

Since the patch it has seemed in every case so far, a new k162 is actually one that showed up after its 16 hour timer. The reason being that when I check out a new k162 the systems have been completely empty. in most cases if I find a corp in the neighboring WH they seem to be active in timezones way outside mine.

So in a way it seems like the delayed appearance is making WH's feel even more empty than before.



100% Agree. Almost every wormhole that's opened into my space has been from completely empty systems. I wonder if CCP has stats on how many wormholes are jumped through and how many are spawned and left?

Assuming that 30% of wormholes are not jumped through immediately I calculate a 9% drop in 'open wormhole time'. If that goes up to 50% not jumped through immediately then that makes it 15% less. The new frigate wormholes & c4 wormholes may make up that difference but it still feels emptier.

Additionally I can KNOW for certain now if I warp to my static that nobody has jumped through. (sometimes). If I log in and there's only the static before I'd have no idea if anyone had jumped through it or not and would have to close it. Now if I warp to it an it's status is 'This wormhole has not yet begun its natural cycle of decay and should last at least another day' I know that its closed and I'm safe for 1-5 hours.
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
#307 - 2014-09-04 12:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ikonia
Negative effect.

I was travelling a lot through WHspace before Hyperion, because i was using it as a great option to travel to Nullsec regions without having to spend a lot of time reaching them usually. So 0sec was a great option for me by going through WHspace to find nullsec connections.

Since the release the chance to find a nullsec exit is like 0. In numbers: 96 WHSpace checked and scanned and found 3 of which 2 were reaching end of lifetime. Before the patch i had every 3rd at least one exit if not 2.

Since im forced to travel only between highsec and WHspace now, i lost interest on WHspace completely, as it is only a waste of time to scan there for exit that bring me to my hunting grounds. And im really not interested in scanning like 20 signatures to find 5 exits to high and none to 0. When i want to play only in highsec, then id stay there.

I have lost my favourite way to travel, lost my options to travel to where im used to be and am bound to highsec now. So i will focus on industry again, as the changes there are not impacting my ingame actions.

Im also speaking for whole connection of people experiencing the same like i do. Whatever the idea was behind, CCP, it was stupid and obviously nonsense to implement that change. WHspace? On ignore from now on, it is the new highsec, if then and when a WH pops up in low that leads to null, good, but for "unknown", "dangerous" and "deadly" there is no point at all to go through as explorer, scanner or combateer as you can only fly from highsec to highsec, like Stargates.

And just as addition: The dumb change to appearance and not appearance is just because of the sensor overlay. Swtich that crap off finally. If you cant scan, there is no point getting the information what is scannable or not, hilarious.
Rahelis
Doomheim
#308 - 2014-09-04 16:54:52 UTC
Just curious - did CCP really nearly disconnext wh space form null sex? So only under 5% connections form wh space to null sec?

I do not know the spread over the wh classes, trough.
Alador Afuran
#309 - 2014-09-05 03:27:12 UTC
Phoenix Steele wrote:
So after the update, has anyone gotten a spawn to High sec or Low sec at all? Besides a static.

WH C3 static null. We have no K162 connections to High sec or Low at all. It's going to be a problem with Fuel, I guess ...
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#310 - 2014-09-05 12:03:15 UTC
Delveling wrote:
Buba Neagra wrote:
So let me get this straight : I may be in 0.0 system and have let's say 5 potential wh's in there but I can see none unless the one from the other side jumps in. WH guys will just have time to gather up, put up a consistent fleet and jump in when they are all ready to engage.

How is that fair to me ?

Let's say I'm in a freighter, warping to the gate, having intel 10 system radius so I'm safe. But...I'm not since I have no signature on dscan.

Therefore, I live in 0.0 but in wh terms. That is not FAIR. Make this change if you want for connections with other wormholes, not high, lowsec or 0.0.


How different is this compared to the old system?

They scan down a WH, form a fleet, warp to nearby planet and align and fleetwarp to WH. You get maybe a 5-10 seconds early warning before they land on 0.0.


You missed the part about his blue doughnut protecting him as he travels solo through nullsec in a FREIGHTER.
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#311 - 2014-09-18 10:46:59 UTC
After living with this system a couple of weeks now I have to say it was a pretty bad idea. A great majority of k-space connections we find are already EOL and therefore quite useless. Cant really go roaming in null or send a hauler to trade hub if you have no idea if the hole home with still be there when you get back.

I propose a change to the system that involves the k162 auto-spawn check to start at the birth of the hole rather then when it goes EOL. Slowly rising until it hits 100% at the same time as the hole goes EOL. This way anyone looking to surpize targets will still have an above avarage chance of not showing the k162 until they jump if the hole is fresh, while also ensuring w-space dwellers will have an increased chance of finding holes to k-space with some life left in it.

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Andarriel
Nolan Heavy Industries
#312 - 2014-09-22 17:04:11 UTC
We are living in a C5 wormhole and REALLY like the changes CCP made to the wormhole mechanics. We like the changes for the following reasons:

1. We have some control over connections allowing us to PVE, PVP, or Travel to K-Space when necessary. This is important because we want to feel like we have some destiny over our predicament. PVP'rs can still open their statics and have more time to find and kill our fleets than they did before. It is a good compromise.

2. Connections to k-space are not down. We have had a Hi-Sec connection already since the patch right from our C5. We were shocked to see that. When we want to get to k-space, the rabbit hole is rarely more than C5 -> C4 -> C3 -> K-space. Null-sec K162 are breeding like rabbits. We get 1-2 null-sec connections every 24 hours. We have no idea why people are complaining about the 0.0 connections.

3. Fuel is not a problem. As long as you are ready to capitalise off of your low-sec or high-sec connections, there is no need to worry about fuel shortages. Currently, we can get a frieghter into our C5 at least 1 a month which can supply 3-4 months of fuel for a large POS. Furthermore, the small supply runs that are every 2-3 days can bring in enough fuel for 2-3 days on their own.

Here are our 3 reasons why the current mechanics of wormholes are working for us. We really like the changes CCP made in Hyperion. We just wanted to make sure CCP heard our side since the nay-sayers appear to have a dominant voice in the forums at the moment.

Thanks for reading.
Andarriel
Nolan Heavy Industries
#313 - 2014-09-22 17:09:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Andarriel
Quote:
100% Agree. Almost every wormhole that's opened into my space has been from completely empty systems.


How is that possible? If there is no one there to open the hole, why did it become visible?

You are probably mixing up random wormholes with static wormholes which were not changed measurably in the latest patch. The comments about connections refer to K162 static wormholes and not randomly ocurring wormholes. Therefore your assertions that the latest patch has had a negative effect on you are flawed.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#314 - 2014-09-24 12:46:05 UTC
Andarriel wrote:
Quote:
100% Agree. Almost every wormhole that's opened into my space has been from completely empty systems.


How is that possible? If there is no one there to open the hole, why did it become visible?

You are probably mixing up random wormholes with static wormholes which were not changed measurably in the latest patch. The comments about connections refer to K162 static wormholes and not randomly ocurring wormholes. Therefore your assertions that the latest patch has had a negative effect on you are flawed.


No you are misunderstanding.

Empty in terms of nobody home at the time.

With the old method k162's formed when warped to. So for example If you were in your home WH and you saw a k162 spawn, you knew 100% that there is someone on the other side, because they just warped to it.

Now, a k162 forms and I investigate, and the system is seemingly empty (not uninhabited, but empty). IE someone warped to the WH many many hours ago but did not jump thru. So by the time the K162 spawns they are long since logged off.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#315 - 2014-09-24 13:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Draahk Chimera wrote:
After living with this system a couple of weeks now I have to say it was a pretty bad idea. A great majority of k-space connections we find are already EOL and therefore quite useless. Cant really go roaming in null or send a hauler to trade hub if you have no idea if the hole home with still be there when you get back.

I propose a change to the system that involves the k162 auto-spawn check to start at the birth of the hole rather then when it goes EOL. Slowly rising until it hits 100% at the same time as the hole goes EOL. This way anyone looking to surpize targets will still have an above avarage chance of not showing the k162 until they jump if the hole is fresh, while also ensuring w-space dwellers will have an increased chance of finding holes to k-space with some life left in it.



A much simpler solution would be for the timers to remain as implemented, but when the hole is then force spawned to have the full life of the hole start from that point.

This retains the benefits, is understandable, and spawns useful rather than EOL holes.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2014-09-30 04:12:06 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.



Ok. What's the timer? How long before it is visible in the probe scanner on the other side?

Thanks,
Newt
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#317 - 2014-09-30 12:59:27 UTC
Newt BlackCompany wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Traiori wrote:
Does the K162 spawn when you jump through the hole or can probes detect it before then?

Does the life of the wormhole now start when you jump through or, as at present, when you initiate warp to the grid it's on?
So the only change that has been made is to when the K162 signature is visible or scannable. Wormhole lifetime still begins as soon as someone initiates warp to its grid.



Ok. What's the timer? How long before it is visible in the probe scanner on the other side?

Thanks,
Newt



Geez really? It's not like there is a link to the details in the OP or anything...
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#318 - 2014-10-03 13:30:02 UTC
I legitimately tried to read some of the responses in this thread, but I couldn't(Because an overwhelming majority are just stupid). So, here's my response to CCP.

Pre-Hyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Hyperion:
Me: Don't jump through the wormhole man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Post-newchangesHyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.


I'm glad that we wasted X number of months of development and internal design time to end up where we started with a more convoluted system that can be circumnavigated by simply rolling the connection and not warping to the newly populated signature.

Thanks CCP.
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#319 - 2014-10-03 16:14:49 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
I legitimately tried to read some of the responses in this thread, but I couldn't(Because an overwhelming majority are just stupid). So, here's my response to CCP.

Pre-Hyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Hyperion:
Me: Don't jump through the wormhole man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Post-newchangesHyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.


I'm glad that we wasted X number of months of development and internal design time to end up where we started with a more convoluted system that can be circumnavigated by simply rolling the connection and not warping to the newly populated signature.

Thanks CCP.


Yea, um you did basically miss the key element to this change on the flip side. Of course I think that has mostly backfired, but it is still legitimately a key reason for this change in the first place.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#320 - 2014-10-03 16:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kaerakh wrote:
I legitimately tried to read some of the responses in this thread, but I couldn't(Because an overwhelming majority are just stupid). So, here's my response to CCP.

Pre-Hyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Hyperion:
Me: Don't jump through the wormhole man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.

Post-newchangesHyperion:
Me: Don't warp to X signature man, that'll populate it on the other side.
Corpie: Oh, phew almost did. Let's get back to running sites.


I'm glad that we wasted X number of months of development and internal design time to end up where we started with a more convoluted system that can be circumnavigated by simply rolling the connection and not warping to the newly populated signature.

Thanks CCP.


Yea, um you did basically miss the key element to this change on the flip side. Of course I think that has mostly backfired, but it is still legitimately a key reason for this change in the first place.


Yea, um you did basically miss the key element to this change.

This fixes nothing and does nothing to change isolationist play styles.