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CCP, given that Suicide Gankers will do what they do, how about allowing some retribution?

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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#61 - 2011-11-23 15:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jojo Jackson
Tippia wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is a tool which functionality is terrible broken.

Gankers KNOW, their victims (most times) can't chase them to use the killright systems.

How is the functionality broken when it is the player's choice to exclude himself from the functionality?
Quote:
Becouse of this, the hole killright system is USELESS!

No, it is not useless — it is just not used because people are not willing to use it. That is thier choice, not a flaw in the system.

I know why you don't like this change.

Gankers use friends to fly the hauler-thiefs or the neutral RR-alts which secure the loot of the gank-victims.

Now a gank-victim could use HIS friends to secure the killrights ...


YOU FEAR TO BECOME A TARGET WHIMPY ! Twisted

PS: it's just another component of this game where balance FAIL hardcore!
The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing!

The killrights should be extendet to anyone who try to loot the victims wreck who is not a friend of the victim!
AND the killrights should be extendet to any remot-help the ganker had (sensor booster, energy booster, scouts in his gank) and EVERY CHAR WHO IS INVOLVED IN ANY FORM!.

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#62 - 2011-11-23 15:59:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jojo Jackson wrote:
There is a tool which functionality is terrible broken.

Gankers KNOW, their victims (most times) can't chase them to use the killright systems.
How is the functionality broken when it is the player's choice to exclude himself from the functionality?
Quote:
Becouse of this, the hole killright system is USELESS!
No, it is not useless — it is just not used because people are not willing to use it. That is thier choice, not a flaw in the system.
Denidil wrote:
suicide gankers are just another form of decbears - you want kills, but you don't want PVP (you might *gasp* loose your ship!)
Wow. That was probably the most clueless thing I've heard in a long time…

Take a minute to consider why it's called suicide ganking, and why what you just said makes no sense.

Oh, and do yourself a favour: think before you type and figure out some kind of argument before opening your mouth and stinking up the place.


oh good point, i meant to say "*gasp* you might give up a killmail to someone else"

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-11-23 16:06:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hauling Hal
When my industrial alt got ganked, we just used a locator agent to find the CEO of the corp that did it and ganked his T2 cloaking hauler leaving a hisec station and podded him. Much more satisfying that getting kill rights on a 2 month old char and didn't require any changes to the current mechanics, as we could live with the sec loss for one kill.
Hulk Smasher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-11-23 16:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hulk Smasher
You guys are cute. You think suicide gankers even care about kill rights. Most of us space assholes live in nullsec or low sec. Hell I have -10 so you never see me in a ship you can take in high sec. 

The truth is, you want your revenge but in the safety (safer) of high sec. Well you won't get it. Kill rights are only good for those that are dumb and gank while living in high sec. 

You want your revenge? Come to Dek.
Sharise Dragonstar
Big Strong
#65 - 2011-11-23 16:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Sharise Dragonstar
Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.

At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner.
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2011-11-23 16:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hauling Hal
Hulk Smasher wrote:
Most people that suicide gank live in nullsec or at least low sec. If you want revenge you can find me in dek usually. Question is, will you leave the safety of high sec? Cause you never get anything in revenge from me in high sec.


I think you'll find that there is no such thing as suicide ganking in lowsec or nullsec. Goon ice mining kills aside, they usually operate in hisec and gank haulers on their way to Jita, usually in Uedama. When they get a low sec status, they use up 2 more alts and then just close the account and start another one to avoid the recycling alts rule.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#67 - 2011-11-23 16:15:14 UTC
When are the blathering retards like OP going to learn that nothing stimulates suicide ganking or other griefing tactics more than threads like this? When will they learn that occasionally being suicide ganked as a miner is merely a cost of doing business and that suicide ganking is probably the only thing keeping mining semi-profitable?

If you're a miner, thank a suicide ganker today. If you want on the killmail, make sure you have a warrior or two out and set to aggressive.
Hulk Smasher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2011-11-23 16:18:08 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Hulk Smasher wrote:
Most people that suicide gank live in nullsec or at least low sec. If you want revenge you can find me in dek usually. Question is, will you leave the safety of high sec? Cause you never get anything in revenge from me in high sec.


I think you'll find that there is no such thing as suicide ganking in lowsec or nullsec. Goon ice mining kills aside, they usually operate in hisec and gank haulers on their way to Jita, usually in Uedama. When they get a low sec status, they use up 2 more alts and then just close the account and start another one to avoid the recycling alts rule.

You are dumb. You think people pay 40 bucks after a few hits. You will never get revenge on us in high sec though. Feel free to leave high sec where you don't even need kill rights though. 
Hulk Smasher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2011-11-23 16:24:18 UTC
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:
Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.

At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner.

Good news, you can shoot my capitals and super capital already without kill rights since they are only in low or null sec. 

Will you come out and shoot it without Concord or faction police though? 
Mag's
Azn Empire
#70 - 2011-11-23 16:36:53 UTC
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:
Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.

At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner.
LolLolLol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2011-11-23 16:37:38 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
I know why you don't like this change.
Ok. Why?
Quote:
Gankers use friends to fly the hauler-thiefs or the neutral RR-alts which secure the loot of the gank-victims.

Now a gank-victim could use HIS friends to secure the killrights ...
No, gankers will not use neutral RR (or, if they do, then we're already talking about a different situation where those victim's friends can already help).

Quote:
PS: it's just another component of this game where balance FAIL hardcore!
The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing!
The targets get the right to exact revenge. If he chooses not to make use of that right, for whatever reason, why should he be given even more rights?
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#72 - 2011-11-23 16:45:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
If he chooses not to make use of that right


brainless

As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them.
But hey it's cool, as soon as you gank someone, your victim gain FREE fighting skills for 30 days so he can make use of his killrights.
That's a deal I can live with ;).

Or how about this. Your victim get his skills boosted to the level of your skills.

If you gank him in a Arti Trasher ... he instantly gain the skills to use a Arti Trasher to kill you WITHOUT WASTING HIS TIME TO TRAIN FOR IT!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!
Psychophantic
#73 - 2011-11-23 16:48:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:

The criminal and anti sozial players get all help they want/need and their targets get nothing!
The targets get the right to exact revenge. If he chooses not to make use of that right, for whatever reason, why should he be given even more rights? [/quote]

Stop being so pedantic and realize it's pretty simple.

In a game which actively encourages the use of alts and many people have cyno alts, pirate alts, salvage alts, hauler alts, mining alts, market alts, pve alts, pvp alts and more, there's not much recourse when that 10m sp dedicated gank alt takes out a 10m sp dedicated miner/hauling alt.

Why even bother giving kill rights at all.
Sharise Dragonstar
Big Strong
#74 - 2011-11-23 16:50:22 UTC
Hulk Smasher wrote:
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:
Give kill rights for the ganker and any characters found on accounts that use the same IP address. Also make it possible for victims freinds to have kill right.

At the moment there are hardly any penalties for suicide ganking. Maybe they would think twice if their shiny 2bn+ isk capital ship is destroyed becaus their alt in a 100kisk ship on another account suicided ganked someones miner.

Good news, you can shoot my capitals and super capital already without kill rights since they are only in low or null sec. 

Will you come out and shoot it without Concord or faction police though? 


Not by myself no but if I had the opportunity to catch you alone or in a favourable position i would bring as many alliance mates as possible that wanted to come. Problem is though at moment there is no way to find out who else is on the ganking alts IP address. Out of interest, say the above occurred to yourself, you lost a multi billion isk ship just becaus you ganked someones miner for minimal profit (in comparrison to your loss) in your alts 100k isk suicide boat, would you reconsider ganking another miner?
Hulk Smasher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2011-11-23 16:51:30 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
Tippia wrote:
If he chooses not to make use of that right


brainless

As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them.
But hey it's cool, as soon as you gank someone, your victim gain FREE fighting skills for 30 days so he can make use of his killrights.
That's a deal I can live with ;).

Or how about this. Your victim get his skills boosted to the level of your skills.

If you gank him in a Arti Trasher ... he instantly gain the skills to use a Arti Trasher to kill you WITHOUT WASTING HIS TIME TO TRAIN FOR IT!


This is such a terrible idea. Unless you want me to make it so I have an army of lvl 5 guys. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2011-11-23 16:52:09 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
As if a dedicated miner/industrial had the needed ingame skills to use them.
He does if he chooses to make use of that right.

Why should the game compensate for your (apparently) poor choices?
Psychophantic wrote:
In a game which actively encourages the use of alts…
…the choice to do so is ultimately yours, and if you pick a combination that leaves you hideously vulnerable in some specific area, then that's your choice and you can't really complain if others take advantage of your chosen weakness.
Quote:
Why even bother giving kill rights at all.
Maybe to encourage people to train up their combat skills if they believe that they might be attacked?
Sharise Dragonstar
Big Strong
#77 - 2011-11-23 16:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Sharise Dragonstar
I do agree a lot with what Tippia is saying but kill rights should be given to corp members of the victim.

At the moment you can't and its kind of like a soldier not being allowed to shoot a known enemy that shot one of his squad mates....just does not make sense to me.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#78 - 2011-11-23 17:02:05 UTC
I believe that suicide gankers are an issue that the game designers need to address, not indie pilots or corps.

Unfortunately, it appears that a significant percentage of the player base only sees the game as a way log on for a few minutes just so they can ruin someone's day.

CCP is already in the financial dungheap. I doubt they will do anything about suicide ganking any time soon.
Hulk Smasher
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2011-11-23 17:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hulk Smasher
Sharise Dragonstar wrote:
I do agree a lot with what Tippia is saying but kill rights should be given to corp members of the victim. 

At the moment you can't and its kind of like a soldier not being allowed to shoot a known enemy that shot one of his squad mates....just does not make sense to me.


Why, my corp or alliance will not be able to shoot you. Kill rights give you an advantage as you can dictate the fight is 1 vs 1 (beyond a remote) and when to have the fight.

The revenge is personal. You don't get to pile up when your kill right can't do the same.
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2011-11-23 17:10:25 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
brainless


MLYP


No amount of Faction / Officer Mods or Skill points will ever give you the edge of defending your self or follow up with a kill rights if you have never even tried to learn the basic aspect of this game.

A n00b with 1/10 of your sp's, that has actually learned some pvp, will tear your ass apart in a lesser ship class and t1 mods.