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CCP, given that Suicide Gankers will do what they do, how about allowing some retribution?

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1 - 2011-11-21 23:36:30 UTC
Been a bazillion threads about the upcoming mayhem the suicide gankers have planned Nov 29th.
No amount of whining on the forums will change that. It is a valid game mechanic, no matter how much I and so many others wish it was not.

But CCP, how about letting us get a little retribution?
Not every miner belongs to an NPC corp, or a pure industrial PC corp.
Some of the miners have friends or other chars in their corp that might have some teeth.

I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Make it activate in such a manner that if someone is suicide ganked in a corp, the ENTIRE corp has kill rights on that suicide ganker for 30 days.
That asshat...er..suicide ganker would be fair game to anyone in the corp wherever they can be found in game.

But some stipulations:


1. Only the victim's corp, not an alliance, can seek retribution.
2. You get to kill the ganker only once. Whether the ganker is in a faction BS or rookie ship, once you blow him up once, the the kill rights are gone.
3. The ganker changes corps, the kill rights against him follow him.
4. If the suicide ganker is even yellow-boxed by a member of the victim corp, the suicide ganker can defend as he was operating under a war dec with the victim corp.
5. If retribution combat is engaged, pods on both sides can be destroyed with no Concord impact.

I am betting a ton of these elite PvP'ers would suddenly reconsider their operations if they rolled through a gate and saw 3 or 4 corp members waiting for him the next day. I mean, geez, they might actually get a loss mail then on their record, and that wouldn't do.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#2 - 2011-11-21 23:42:20 UTC
Then they'd have 100 easy targets instead of 1 :)

The pie is a tautology
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
#3 - 2011-11-21 23:44:28 UTC
or you could use scouts and/or d-scan?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#4 - 2011-11-21 23:47:36 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Been a bazillion threads about the upcoming mayhem the suicide gankers have planned Nov 29th.
No amount of whining on the forums will change that. It is a valid game mechanic, no matter how much I and so many others wish it was not.

But CCP, how about letting us get a little retribution?
Not every miner belongs to an NPC corp, or a pure industrial PC corp.
Some of the miners have friends or other chars in their corp that might have some teeth.

I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Make it activate in such a manner that if someone is suicide ganked in a corp, the ENTIRE corp has kill rights on that suicide ganker for 30 days.
That asshat...er..suicide ganker would be fair game to anyone in the corp wherever they can be found in game.

But some stipulations:


1. Only the victim's corp, not an alliance, can seek retribution.
2. You get to kill the ganker only once. Whether the ganker is in a faction BS or rookie ship, once you blow him up once, the the kill rights are gone.
3. The ganker changes corps, the kill rights against him follow him.
4. If the suicide ganker is even yellow-boxed by a member of the victim corp, the suicide ganker can defend as he was operating under a war dec with the victim corp.
5. If retribution combat is engaged, pods on both sides can be destroyed with no Concord impact.

I am betting a ton of these elite PvP'ers would suddenly reconsider their operations if they rolled through a gate and saw 3 or 4 corp members waiting for him the next day. I mean, geez, they might actually get a loss mail then on their record, and that wouldn't do.

Carebears will be carebears. No matter how many tools, short of a usable-inside-station-instant-death-trigger-retribution button, you given them, they will not be utilized.

That's not to say I dislike your proposal. I'd certainly love the extra kills I'd get if my gank victims try to seek revenge.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#5 - 2011-11-21 23:51:20 UTC
or ccp could fix bounties... (see below)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#6 - 2011-11-21 23:54:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Been a bazillion threads about the upcoming mayhem the suicide gankers have planned Nov 29th.
No amount of whining on the forums will change that. It is a valid game mechanic, no matter how much I and so many others wish it was not.

But CCP, how about letting us get a little retribution?
Not every miner belongs to an NPC corp, or a pure industrial PC corp.
Some of the miners have friends or other chars in their corp that might have some teeth.

I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Make it activate in such a manner that if someone is suicide ganked in a corp, the ENTIRE corp has kill rights on that suicide ganker for 30 days.
That asshat...er..suicide ganker would be fair game to anyone in the corp wherever they can be found in game.

But some stipulations:


1. Only the victim's corp, not an alliance, can seek retribution.
2. You get to kill the ganker only once. Whether the ganker is in a faction BS or rookie ship, once you blow him up once, the the kill rights are gone.
3. The ganker changes corps, the kill rights against him follow him.
4. If the suicide ganker is even yellow-boxed by a member of the victim corp, the suicide ganker can defend as he was operating under a war dec with the victim corp.
5. If retribution combat is engaged, pods on both sides can be destroyed with no Concord impact.

I am betting a ton of these elite PvP'ers would suddenly reconsider their operations if they rolled through a gate and saw 3 or 4 corp members waiting for him the next day. I mean, geez, they might actually get a loss mail then on their record, and that wouldn't do.



Although podding definitely wouldn't be implemented (and I doubt that overall, this would either), I would love a change like this. Adds some excitement (possibly) to suicide ganking. The problem would be getting the great many care bear corps to actually use this feature.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2011-11-21 23:57:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Maybe you should take the time to learn a bit about the thing you're looking to modify… hmm?

By the way, why do you need further tools for retribution?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#8 - 2011-11-22 00:02:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Maybe you should take the time to learn a bit about the thing you're looking to modify… hmm?

By the way, why do you need further tools for retribution?



Well, I do know that the killrights are for me and me alone to utilize, certainly not my entire corp.
Further, it is pretty pointless for an industrial alt to have kill rights, since the vast majority of indy alts don't have the skills to seek retribution. But a corp, that is another matter.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Sedition.
#9 - 2011-11-22 00:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Brusanan
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
4. If the suicide ganker is even yellow-boxed by a member of the victim corp, the suicide ganker can defend as he was operating under a war dec with the victim corp.

Are you trying to get more carebears killed? Seriously, locking should not ever be considered a hostile action.

And really, there is no difference between 1 carebear not collecting killrights on me and 100 carebears not collecting killrights on me. Makes no difference in the end. A few bold carebears will be more confident in numbers, but that will quickly change the first time it goes bad (which will likely be the first time they attempt to fight back).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2011-11-22 00:05:06 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Further, it is pretty pointless for an industrial alt to have kill rights, since the vast majority of indy alts don't have the skills to seek retribution. But a corp, that is another matter.

So in other words, the tools are there, but people choose not to make use of them.

…so why are further tools needed?
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Sedition.
#11 - 2011-11-22 00:06:35 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I believe there is something in my journals about having killrights for 30 days after someone nails me.
Not sure how that mechanic works, nor specifically care.

But CCP, what I AM suggesting to a modification of that kill right.
Maybe you should take the time to learn a bit about the thing you're looking to modify… hmm?

By the way, why do you need further tools for retribution?



Well, I do know that the killrights are for me and me alone to utilize, certainly not my entire corp.
Further, it is pretty pointless for an industrial alt to have kill rights, since the vast majority of indy alts don't have the skills to seek retribution. But a corp, that is another matter.

That's not necessarily true. Bring a gank ship and a few corpies in ships fit with RR (not necessarily Logi ships, as you want them to be able to shoot back if your target starts shooting them).
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#12 - 2011-11-22 00:09:19 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
4. If the suicide ganker is even yellow-boxed by a member of the victim corp, the suicide ganker can defend as he was operating under a war dec with the victim corp.

Are you trying to get more carebears killed? Seriously, locking should not ever be considered a hostile action.

And really, there is no difference between 1 carebear not collecting killrights on me and 100 carebears not collecting killrights on me. Makes no difference in the end. A few bold carebears will be more confident in numbers, but that will quickly change the first time it goes bad (which will likely be the first time they attempt to fight back).



Let's put it this way, either you underestimate the amount of indy pilots that have compentent PvP alts or corp mates, or I am overestimating the combat capabilities of most industrial corps.

One way, you get more PvP which you guys profess to love so much, other way, nothing changes and this proposed change does not affect you. Seems like a no-lose situation for suicide gankers.
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#13 - 2011-11-22 00:12:21 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Then they'd have 100 easy targets instead of 1 :)



thats not how kill rights work
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#14 - 2011-11-22 00:12:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Further, it is pretty pointless for an industrial alt to have kill rights, since the vast majority of indy alts don't have the skills to seek retribution. But a corp, that is another matter.

So in other words, the tools are there, but people choose not to make use of them.

…so why are further tools needed?

Tippia, as much as I appreciate you fighting the good fight for the sake of this game's integrity, I think you should actually not argue against this proposal.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#15 - 2011-11-22 00:12:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Further, it is pretty pointless for an industrial alt to have kill rights, since the vast majority of indy alts don't have the skills to seek retribution. But a corp, that is another matter.

So in other words, the tools are there, but people choose not to make use of them.

…so why are further tools needed?


Now you are being obtuse. The existing kill rights mechanism works on an individual level, and is inadequate for the vast majority of indy alts to seek retribution.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Sedition.
#16 - 2011-11-22 00:14:12 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Let's put it this way, either you underestimate the amount of indy pilots that have compentent PvP alts or corp mates, or I am overestimating the combat capabilities of most industrial corps.

It's the latter.

Quote:
One way, you get more PvP which you guys profess to love so much, other way, nothing changes and this proposed change does not affect you. Seems like a no-lose situation for suicide gankers.

Yes, it is a no-lose situation for people like me, which is why I asked you if you really are on the carebear's side.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#17 - 2011-11-22 00:18:43 UTC
Actually, I don't really think many on either side of the fence would object to some version of this being introduced.

That being said, and yes I've felt the need to repeat this chestnut often lately...

... be careful what you wish for...

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Brusanan
Sons of Seyllin
Sedition.
#18 - 2011-11-22 00:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Brusanan
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now you are being obtuse. The existing kill rights mechanism works on an individual level, and is inadequate for the vast majority of indy alts to seek retribution.

Read my post.

PVP ships are usually buffer tanked. Given enough time, you can kill most of them with a poorly fit cruiser on an industry character with barely any PVP skills. All you need are corpies to keep you alive with RR, and possibly add a bit of DPS if the target is dumb enough to shoot them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2011-11-22 00:21:54 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now you are being obtuse. The existing kill rights mechanism works on an individual level, and is inadequate for the vast majority of indy alts to seek retribution.
In other words (again, and until you get the point I'm making), they have chosen to make use of the tools available.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tippia, as much as I appreciate you fighting the good fight for the sake of this game's integrity, I think you should actually not argue against this proposal.

Nah, I think I will, partly because the OP admits to not knowing or caring about the mechanics he want to discuss (which means he has no business discussing them) and partly because it's a pretty awful idea compared to the oft-proposed alternatives.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#20 - 2011-11-22 00:36:26 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now you are being obtuse. The existing kill rights mechanism works on an individual level, and is inadequate for the vast majority of indy alts to seek retribution.

Read my post.

PVP ships are usually buffer tanked. Given enough time, you can kill most of them with a poorly fit cruiser on an industry character with barely any PVP skills. All you need are corpies to keep you alive with RR, and possibly add a bit of DPS if the target is dumb enough to shoot them.



Fair enough. Let me paraphrase to make sure I am understanding what you are saying:
Under the current game mechanics, if the suicide ganker is attacked by a past indy victim, say with minimal skills (but has to have the ability to fit a scram/disrupter to get the initial tackle), the indy victim's corp buddies can keep on RR'ing the indy victim with no chance of the suicide ganker shooting the RR corp buddies?

I don't believe that is how the current mechanic works.

And even if it did, the suicide ganker would be able to burn back to a gate and jump long before the industrial with the poor PvP skills could bring down the suicide ganker's ship. Somehow, I think some indy alt with say L2 in medium autocannons and BC III, in a Cane against a Tornado, not much chance of bringing down the Tornado.

Now, of course, pinning down this same ganker in a belt, different story. But that is far too limiting for the Indy victim.
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