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How can EVE retain new players

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Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#141 - 2014-08-06 18:47:20 UTC
I think peopol in this tred have lost the mine objectivs of this tred,for new players thers no lack of content,thers other issus with this game to solv for that,as stated in erlyer post in this tred.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2014-08-06 18:49:41 UTC
Zeera Tomb-Raider wrote:
I think peopol in this tred have lost the mine objectivs of this tred,for new players thers no lack of content,thers other issus with this game to solv for that,as stated in erlyer post in this tred.

Yes, what you're seeing is Malcanis' Law in action: complain about something you find is boring, and then tack on “it will help new players (for no obvious or conceivable reason)” at the end to give it a molecule-thin veneer of not being completely self-serving.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2014-08-06 19:00:31 UTC
One of Eve's biggest problems in retaining new players is its actual age.

I know there are hard limitations in skills and whatnot. But to a new player, ten plus years is a cliff they "know" they will never defeat. So they go off to easier pastures, something newer.
Serene Repose
#144 - 2014-08-06 19:01:34 UTC
End game in EVE? What's this I keep hearing about an "end game" in EVE?
You guys all missed the most salient point - he thinks EVE has an end game.
How could he possibly have a clue?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2014-08-06 19:01:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:


They all got there places just like Eve, the question was just how to retain new players, for me the answer is what have they not done, and for me that is pve


What is never asked during these "eve needs new players" threads is if the players being retained are the right kind of player.

Lots of people who try EVE and don't like it are people who NEED the kinds of things mainstream/non-EVE like games offer (like hand holding, a clear cut 'story' to be a part of, protection from the predations of other players etc etc etc).

If you have to gerrymander a niche game so much to get new players to stay, why did they make a niche game to begin with?

CCp shouldn't worry about retaining new players (those new players are making a smart choice), if anything at all it should change it's outreach efforts away from traditional (instant gratification needing) gamers and Traditional (themepark loving) MMO players and do some 'outside the box' marketing to groups of people who would like a game like this. Because at the end of the day it's not the game, it's the gamers that need re-thinking.


But wasnt it CCP who said themselves they need to work out how to keep new players? they dont need to keep me im already here an staying lol, i like what i can do an do it all time, the question of the OP was just how to keep them, all im doing is putting out a suggestion, crap as it might be since you n tippia are tearing it apart :P

My thinking is simply what have they not tried
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2014-08-06 19:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bel Tika
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#147 - 2014-08-06 19:16:40 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
One of Eve's biggest problems in retaining new players is its actual age.

I know there are hard limitations in skills and whatnot. But to a new player, ten plus years is a cliff they "know" they will never defeat. So they go off to easier pastures, something newer.

Dont think the skill cliff is to blame for most of the people living,think the biggest problem is to get them in a player corp interacting with other people thats rely what online gams is about,and i have posted som changes i think migth help on that in my first post on this tred.if you like to have a look.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#148 - 2014-08-06 19:23:47 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:

But wasnt it CCP who said themselves they need to work out how to keep new players?


Of course they did. They are a company, companies are always saying all kinds of crap lol.

"They" also said something about 'the players it's ok to lose'. Though that particular DEV isn't with the company anymore, it means that at least one CCP at one time understood that EVE isn't for everyone.

Quote:

they dont need to keep me im already here an staying lol, i like what i can do an do it all time, the question of the OP was just how to keep them, all im doing is putting out a suggestion, crap as it might be since you n tippia are tearing it apart :P

My thinking is simply what have they not tried


The bolded part is important, because if you are an EVE player you can see 1st hand how the game isn't for everyone. To be here you have to have a sort of inclination of things (or tolerance of other things, ot both). If new players don't have that, it's ok for them to quit during the tutorial, and i think CCP still knows that. If they didn't know this, our space ships would already be unicorns and we'd be debating which crossbow has the more applicable DPS (lol).

In other words, the people who would stay if only there were better PVE aren't the kinds of people who are gonna stay after they exhaust all this new PVE. So it doesn't make sense for CCP to sink all those man hours into making expensive 'content' to keep some (themepark) players around for a few extra months when they could be improving the tools of the sandbox which keeps sandbox players playing for YEARS.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2014-08-06 19:33:28 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me

Okay....holy ****. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was THAT bad.

So, modern gamers, how does it feel to know that 90% of you can't even beat the first level of a game that I beat when I was six years old?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#150 - 2014-08-06 19:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me

Okay....holy ****. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was THAT bad.

So, modern gamers, how does it feel to know that 90% of you can't even beat the first level of a game that I beat when I was six years old?


Dude...Dude...DUDE

I'm laughing so hard I can't see straight right now. I read this part and damn near fainted.
Quote:

We watched the replay videos of how the gamers performed and saw that many did not understand simple concepts like bottomless pits. Around 70 percent died to the first Goomba. Another 50 percent died twice. Many thought the coins were enemies and tried to avoid them. Also, most of them did not use the run button. There were many other depressing things we noted but I can not remember them at the moment.


They thought money was bad, I suspect communism!


and OMG relevant to this discussion:
Quote:

Furthermore, we asked for suggestions on how to improve the game. A majority of them wanted the game to be easier and they suggested many ways to do this. Some of them wanted a mandatory tutorial while others wanted more ways to kill things besides jumping on them. We explained that Mario could shoot fire balls with the Fire Flower power-up, but then they wanted Mario to start with more weapons like a sword or a gun.

Some of the people seemed to be unaware that this was an actual old game that existed as they asked if the retro-style graphics were supposed to be a throwback to old Nintendo games. Some missed the point of the questionnaire completely and said that the graphics and music were terrible and needed to be improved in order for the game to sell. They also wanted a deeper storyline and voice acting.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2014-08-06 19:38:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bel Tika
Never actually thought of it that way tbh m8, you hear all time about ppl "devouring" content an then leaving touting the developers fault for them going through content so fast they got nothing to do, guess i was thinking of it more along the lines of "what would i like" instead of what would actually be best.

i like these chats make you think while exploring :P

Edit: was in reply to yer last post lol
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2014-08-06 19:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Bel Tika
Jenn aSide wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me

Okay....holy ****. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was THAT bad.

So, modern gamers, how does it feel to know that 90% of you can't even beat the first level of a game that I beat when I was six years old?


Dude...Dude...DUDE

I'm laughing so hard I can't see straight right now. I read this part and damn near fainted.
Quote:

We watched the replay videos of how the gamers performed and saw that many did not understand simple concepts like bottomless pits. Around 70 percent died to the first Goomba. Another 50 percent died twice. Many thought the coins were enemies and tried to avoid them. Also, most of them did not use the run button. There were many other depressing things we noted but I can not remember them at the moment.



and OMG relevant to this discussion:
Quote:

Furthermore, we asked for suggestions on how to improve the game. A majority of them wanted the game to be easier and they suggested many ways to do this. Some of them wanted a mandatory tutorial while others wanted more ways to kill things besides jumping on them. We explained that Mario could shoot fire balls with the Fire Flower power-up, but then they wanted Mario to start with more weapons like a sword or a gun.

Some of the people seemed to be unaware that this was an actual old game that existed as they asked if the retro-style graphics were supposed to be a throwback to old Nintendo games. Some missed the point of the questionnaire completely and said that the graphics and music were terrible and needed to be improved in order for the game to sell. They also wanted a deeper storyline and voice acting.


Man you got me cringing an hiding behind ma chair now FO will you :P

Edit: guess classic case of "man digs own grave" rofl
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#153 - 2014-08-06 19:42:42 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
Never actually thought of it that way tbh m8, you hear all time about ppl "devouring" content an then leaving touting the developers fault for them going through content so fast they got nothing to do, guess i was thinking of it more along the lines of "what would i like" instead of what would actually be best.

i like these chats make you think while exploring :P


Well, we gotta do something while you are exploring and i'm crushing lvl 3 missions in the name of the Minmatar Republic lol.

I do think there are ways EVE can improve *good* player retention, I just don't think the way to go is "away" from people (towards pve).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2014-08-06 19:46:01 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
One of Eve's biggest problems in retaining new players is its actual age.

I know there are hard limitations in skills and whatnot. But to a new player, ten plus years is a cliff they "know" they will never defeat. So they go off to easier pastures, something newer.


This is as true now as it was back when we first ventured out in rifters.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#155 - 2014-08-06 19:49:28 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me


Ah man, reality crushed my dreams lol. The story you linked isn't true.

Still funny though.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#156 - 2014-08-06 19:49:37 UTC
Yes, god forbid devs would waste their precious time to put at least a little fresh air into missions. That precious time they spend providing us with...

It would be just simpler to get rid of all PVE once and for all and just let us earn by killing each other and trade whatever dropped. No more grind, no more multiboxing ice crunchers or incursion farmers or button spinning farmers or null anoms farmers. Why can't we just have pure PVP environment that Eve so boldly advertises at every occasion? You have what you can mine or steal or get out of a wreck. No more bullsh!t, no more "I just wanna run mishuns in peace, why are you in my mishun?".

What say you all?

Invalid signature format
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#157 - 2014-08-06 19:52:03 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Yes, god forbid devs would waste their precious time to put at least a little fresh air into missions. That precious time they spend providing us with...

It would be just simpler to get rid of all PVE once and for all and just let us earn by killing each other and trade whatever dropped. No more grind, no more multiboxing ice crunchers or incursion farmers or button spinning farmers or null anoms farmers. Why can't we just have pure PVP environment that Eve so boldly advertises at every occasion? You have what you can mine or steal or get out of a wreck. No more bullsh!t, no more "I just wanna run mishuns in peace, why are you in my mishun?".

What say you all?


Nope, pve is ok as it is.

And if you can look at this incredible award winning history making 11 year old game and not see what the DEVs have been doing, you must be blind.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2014-08-06 19:52:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me


Ah man, reality crushed my dreams lol. The story you linked isn't true.

Still funny though.


Well that sucks, ive believed that for nigh half a bloody year, im really turning out to be one stupid bstrd aint i rofl
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#159 - 2014-08-06 19:54:33 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
One of Eve's biggest problems in retaining new players is its actual age.

I know there are hard limitations in skills and whatnot. But to a new player, ten plus years is a cliff they "know" they will never defeat. So they go off to easier pastures, something newer.

Bull****

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#160 - 2014-08-06 19:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Bel Tika wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
I mind reading a article from nintendo boss, if i find the link i post it, basically what he said was they did a study an sat gamers of today in front of a computer with the original super mario bro's, 95% of them found it to hard and when asked for suggestions on how to make it better they said things like give me a start gun etc etc

Pretty depressing reading

EDIT found it Click Me


Ah man, reality crushed my dreams lol. The story you linked isn't true.

Still funny though.


Well that sucks, ive believed that for nigh half a bloody year, im really turning out to be one stupid bstrd aint i rofl


I researched it a bit because the old saying is true: "If it seems to good to be true, it is" (lol).

Personally, I give extra scrutiny to any information that too closely benefits my way of thinking (unlike many many GD forum posters IMO), that way no one can come back at me and say "HAH, it's not true, therefore everything you believe is wrong" Cool