Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well I am specifically trying to avoid it by letting them use downsized weapons. I.e. giving a mega bonuses to 250mm rails - I'm not talking about increased large weapon DPS.

What you'd get is a huge EHP ball of frigate/cruiser sized weapons. They would still have all the inherit battleship weaknesses - high sig, slow, poor locking times.

BUT it would allow them to bring DPS to the field on a given target size.

So, hypothetically, if you have a typhoon with RLML, yes - she will chew frigates up and spit them out, but would be extremely vulnerable to even a couple of cruisers, even moreso a bigger hull.

I don't think it is power creep so much as just a little more flexibility.

I can't see it affecting fleet doctrines but it'd be an interesting shakeup in the small gang meta. I don't realistically see everyone dropping to nothing but BS as a result - they are still too slow and cumbersome for that. Agility is still king and that will never change in small roams, but a few battleships warp speed fit with bonused downsized weapons might start popping up.

You could argue it is power creep further down the food chain, but I don't think it'd create much imbalance given their inherent weaknesses - even if a dozen such ships jump a cruiser gang - the cruisers will almost certainly be able to bail out, potentially taking a ship with them on the way.

It's just a concept, it should be refined but I like the idea of it. Perhaps we'd see people bringing one to swat tackle - then maybe others evolve to bring a regular battleship to swat the anti-tackle machine and so the evolution could continue.


More options are good. More options that (I dont believe) cause serious power shift and let us use underused things in PvP again is even better.


Edit: I suppose this would in essence turn them into "super heavy" battlecruisers. It'd be a nice option

It just seems like you're describing the role of CBCs to me. Not that they fill their role any better than the battleship fills its own though. :P

Lol no.

Miner's choose to mine almost always so they can do something else in the meanwhile. Ratting, trading, incursions, all of that is too tedious for them. They don't want to have to do anything.

So no, quite the opposite. Please think before posting

NONONONO They are BATTLESHIPS.... battlecruisers are the stepchildreen bizzare derivatives from battleships no the other way around.

Battleships need to be more battleshipish. THeir large guns do nto do enough RAW dps. Several cruisers sized weapon based ships do almost as mcuh dps but with 3-4 times more damage application efficiency.



Battleships has MASSSIVE diasvantages, with very tiny advantages, that are not even consistent, because Some commandships and some T3 (hello proteus) have more EHP than battleships while fielding same class of DPS and more mobility)


You know why in high sec the vindicator is the most used combat battleship in PVP? Because it is one of the the only that brign enough to the table to compensate for the lack of mobility. The other is the bhaalghorn. Why I say highsec? Because is the last place where fleet combat is small enough that it does nto degenerate in a ton of EHP bricks being repaired by boring logi fleets. Malestroms, DOmis and APOCS are used in 0.0, but because of the degenerate enviroment of combat where mobility is irrelevant because you as aplayer are not supposed to click anythign that your FC does nto tell you to click.

DPS and EHP buffs are great and all, but I will be damned if I am going to fly BC's or bigger through more than one gate now in dynamic ways. Sure people will bring them to timer-based fights etc, but when did we decide that regular flying of BC's and bigger should be so fricken HEINOUS??

F

If only warp speed modules werent so goddamn bad,

There are two issues with large ships warp speed.

1. PVP there is a good justification for when a battleship or battlecruiser is warping into combat or out of combat being attacked by interceptors for the current balance and difference in speeds of different classes.

2. PVE and general Travel. Not so much of a need for the great difference, but of course PvE can turn into PVP very quickly.

I have tried to think of all the different scenarios, to come to the point where I can suggest this. The mechanics May not allow it, but the suggestion is as follows.

Warp speed remains exactly the same as it is except under the specific circumstances detailed here. No other warp command from whatever source alters the existing methodology.

When a warp is engaged directly from a gate cloak where the command is a warp to gate and jump instruction, (you know the button) then after the ship enters warp it Cannot be terminated before the jump phase, (ctrl space) and the warp speed is at cruiser levels. This prevents the exploit of cancelling the command on landing having gained the benefits.

This allows less tedium, Battleships and battlecruisers to travel with cruiser support, at the same rate, and does not allow battleships to gain an advantage in combat in any way from the increase in warp speed. They cannot for example jump to a gate at a higher speed without having to Jump through. And a battleship cannot gain increased warp speed when jumping into combat.

The effect of this is that larger combat ships will be more used in mixed fleets and roams.
The downside is that if the arrival gate becomes the combat site, then the freedom to abort jump and engage is lost.

That is a fair balance, and players have the freedom to choose that downside risk if they wish. They can still warp to gate at current speeds.

Of course this may not even be technically possible to implement.
Would it be a popular option, and can anyone see how it would cause issues other than battleships and BC being more used for PVP?

mind elaborating for the less experienced among us

I agree to an extent.

Battleship warp is waaaayyy toooo sllooowww....

but then I was agree that BS sensor resolution is also a bit too low. 15s to lock a frigate is..............

Bottom line: spending so much game time staring at the warp effect is very boring.


I have a couple of hours a day to play. I'm not going to head off on a roam in the hopes of finding a fight and spend the vast majority of it staring at the inside of the warp tube. It absolutely disinterests me and adds no value to game play. I used to love Battleships, but now unless a fight happens to come where I have them parked in home station, I'm rarely going to get in it. Its just painful. I find myself exasperated on how damn slow they are every time I jump in a favorite old BS and suddenly remember why I don't fly them anymore.

I do like the faster warp times and I understand CCP's desire to spread the warp speeds out relatively. But I think I just would have sped the small ships up, but not slowed anything down. I don't have a good recommendation frankly but lately I just feel like everything is becoming more of a grind.

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BTW from the previous discussion on waterborne small ships or big ships analogy I can't help but chime in: Displacement Hull ships are faster the longer they are. And it take amazingly very little power to get a large ship up to its max displacement hull speed (even when heavily laden). However, to push a displacement hull ship past that max hull speed and overcome its self generated standing bow wave takes substantial power. This max hull speed is:
Vhull=1.34 x the square root of the length of the water line
The easiest way to overcome this is to modify hull design and put the ship up on plane, thus the planning hull. Planning boats require a huge burst of thrust relative to mass to get up on plane and still quite a bit to maintain it. Thus they are very inefficient but quick and more agile. They can't go as far, carry as much, can't weigh much (ie armor), etc etc. But its all completely irrelevant to the discussion for ships in space.