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Drake pve fit for lvl 3 missions solo?

Author
Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#1 - 2014-08-04 11:58:16 UTC
Hey guys,

I'm about to start doing lvl 3 missions with a drake, but I need to advice regarding the fit.
My fitt in EFT:
1x damage control II
2x ballistic control system I
1x co-processor II
2x adaptive invulnerability field II
1x 10mn afterburner II
1x phased weapon navigation array generation extron
2x medium shield extender II
6x heavy missile launcher I
1x salvager I
3x medium coredefense field extender I

with my current skills and the salvager and afterburner off my ship is stable at 52% and with afterburner on, it deplets in about 4 minutes. ehp of 52k.
Now my quesiton: why do all people use purgers instead of field extender rigs? my field extenders boost my shield regen up to 22 hp /s whilst with the purgers I'd only get 28hp/s and alot less shield hp?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-08-04 12:38:47 UTC
the real question is why aren't you using warhead rigor catalyst rigs and arbalest missile launchers? both would improve your kill speed and reduce the need for tank, not to mention the isk/hour.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#3 - 2014-08-04 12:45:38 UTC
hmm i only use these rigs for additional tank... I don't know I I'll be tanky enough for lvl 3 without them
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-08-04 12:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
granted the drake is not a dps monster, but even then, a four slot shield tank should be more than enough for almost all lvl3s. try this:

[Drake]

[High Slots]
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile

[Med Slots]
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

[Rigs]
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I



for harder missions, you should be able to squeeze in a third shield extender for the afterburner.

edit: don't forget drones.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-08-04 14:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
drop the salvager. leave that slot empty since there is really nothing useful to put there. that might also give you enough free cpu so that you will not need co-processor in low slot.

bring mobile tractor unit and use 5 salvage drones.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-08-04 14:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
delete please

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-08-04 14:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
delete please

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2014-08-04 14:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
Richard Trollsten wrote:

with my current skills and the salvager and afterburner off my ship is stable at 52% and with afterburner on, it deplets in about 4 minutes. ehp of 52k.
Now my quesiton: why do all people use purgers instead of field extender rigs? my field extenders boost my shield regen up to 22 hp /s whilst with the purgers I'd only get 28hp/s and alot less shield hp?

I don't remember the numbers, and drake has been rebalanced twice(?) now. But... the extenders vs purgers is a balancing act.
Extenders give you bigger buffer, but they also make your sig bigger so you are faster to lock (pvp), easier to hit (pvp and pve), take more damage (pvp and pve).

Purgers don't increase your buffer, but they also keep your signature smaller. And having faster/greater recharge your shield does not go down as fast.

Also one of the standards on purger rigged drake is to use spr (shield power relay) modules in low slots which also greatly increase shield recharge so that number of 28 hp/s is actually the minimum because you don't have any spr in low slots. Super tanky purger drake has 3 purger rigs and 3 spr in low slots, try it in eft and see what kind of shield recharge number you get.

I think back in the day someone crunched the numbers and came up with purgers being overall better than extenders. And it has been taken as the "standard". However, that was what? 6 years ago? 8 years ago? It may or it may not be valid any longer.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#9 - 2014-08-04 14:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Trollsten
Okay I'll try out the different fits and see which one is the best :) Thanks to all of you

oh and one question: do you guys fit hobgoblins in the drone bay or rather salvage drones?
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-08-04 15:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleidascope
Richard Trollsten wrote:
Okay I'll try out the different fits and see which one is the best :) Thanks to all of you

oh and one question: do you guys fit hobgoblins in the drone bay or rather salvage drones?

Up to you. If you need dps, use hobs (then just deploy mtu and fit that salvager in high slot). If you don't need dps, then use salvage drones. You could go 4 hobs and 1 salvage drone, or 3 hobs and 2 salvage drones.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#11 - 2014-08-04 15:11:17 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
granted the drake is not a dps monster, but even then, a four slot shield tank should be more than enough for almost all lvl3s. try this:

[Drake]

[High Slots]
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile

[Med Slots]
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

[Rigs]
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I



for harder missions, you should be able to squeeze in a third shield extender for the afterburner.

edit: don't forget drones.


I've been digging around a little bit in the market and found that the launchers you adviced me to use are about 2m per launcher.. I found a similar launcher, the XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, which is also better than the normal heavy missile launcher I, but only costs 160k and it's reload speed is only 0.75s slower than yours. And with my current skills I wouldnt be able to run your fit, since neither my processor nor my capacitor are good enough :/ (yet )
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-08-04 15:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Richard Trollsten wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
granted the drake is not a dps monster, but even then, a four slot shield tank should be more than enough for almost all lvl3s. try this:

[Drake]

[High Slots]
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile

[Med Slots]
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

[Low Slots]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

[Rigs]
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I



for harder missions, you should be able to squeeze in a third shield extender for the afterburner.

edit: don't forget drones.


I've been digging around a little bit in the market and found that the launchers you adviced me to use are about 2m per launcher.. I found a similar launcher, the XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, which is also better than the normal heavy missile launcher I, but only costs 160k and it's reload speed is only 0.75s slower than yours. And with my current skills I wouldnt be able to run your fit, since neither my processor nor my capacitor are good enough :/ (yet )


don't worry about the capacitor. as long as you can run it for ~4-5 minutes with afterburner, you're going to be fine. CPU problems are harder to fix. iirc the XR-3200 launchers use less CPU than the arbalest, and you *can* replace one rigor rig with a shield extender or purger to save some more.

edit: also consider the cheaper CPU management implants.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#13 - 2014-08-04 15:42:39 UTC
thanks for your advice, I've come a with a new fitting, it doesn't offer such a high dps as yours, but has alot of shield tank and recharge, also it's cheaper. I have 2 variants, 1 with an afterburner and the other one I replaced the afterburner with a shield recharger II
low:
1x damage control II
2x ballistic control system II
1x shield power relay II

medium:
2x adaptive invulnerability field II
1x shield recharger II
1x phased weapon navigation array generation extron
1x 10mn afterburner II (Or another shield recharger II )

high:
6x XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay
and maybe 1 salvager I
rigs:
3x medium core defense field purger I

EHP: 42k
shield recharge rate with lowest skill possible: 167ehp/s with 2 rechargers and 142ehp/s with only 1.
damage per volley: 1119
with afterburner the cap only lasts 3min 43 sec, without 20min.
Now another question, how do I use the afterburner in battle? I know that I can evade attacks more easily, but is it really worth it, considering that I wouldn't be able to keep it on throughout the fight?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-08-04 15:51:50 UTC
the drake is not exactly known for its slender figure and nimble advance. in other words, it's a slow fat blob that will get hit by anything anyway. the afterburner is mainly meant for those missions where you have to travel from one gate to the next, other than that it will probably only be useful against battleship sized weapons if at all.

if you insist on flying this overtanked fit, i would advise you to at least keep an eye on how far your shields drop in missions. if you never drop below 40%, you are overtanked. if you *sometimes* drop below 30%, you're about right and if you drop below 10%, you should consider adding more tank (and warping out).

I should buy an Ishtar.

Richard Trollsten
Benevolence Reserve Fleet
#15 - 2014-08-04 16:00:54 UTC
okay thanks, I know I might be a lil over tanked ^^, but for the start I'd rather be over thanked, than dead :P, I'll replace some of the equipment for higher dps, later when my skills are higher. I originally thought that the afterburner is somehow significant during the battle e.g. staying outside the enemies optimal range... So I think I'll experiment a little with this build, and thank you alot for your help :D
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-08-04 16:07:21 UTC
staying outside of the optimal range of rats may indeed be possible, as your heavy missiles can fly up to 60km and beyond. it will rarely be necessary though. aside from 'The Blockade' and the bonus last room of the various Extravaganza missions, there is nothing that will stress your tank enough, as long as you watch what you're shooting.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#17 - 2014-08-04 16:19:11 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:

Purgers don't increase your buffer, but they also keep your signature smaller. And having faster/greater recharge your shield does not go down as fast.

Purgers have the exact same sig radius penalty that extenders do.

Quote:
I think back in the day someone crunched the numbers and came up with purgers being overall better than extenders. And it has been taken as the "standard". However, that was what? 6 years ago? 8 years ago? It may or it may not be valid any longer.

Most forms of PvE (certainly the case for L3s don't care about buffer. Purgers will be better for PvE in all but a very few cases.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-08-04 16:58:08 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:
Most forms of PvE (certainly the case for L3s don't care about buffer. Purgers will be better for PvE in all but a very few cases.

missions may indeed be flown with buffer tanks, IF you have very high dps. for instance, all my marauder pilots, including the kronos and paladin can often finish lvl4s without activating reps or dropping into armor. same with my lvl3 brutix navy.

in any case, there is always a turn over point at which the buffer tank performs equal or better to a recharge tank. this point depends on the precise numbers and incoming dps, but it is generally in the minutes or tens of minutes for lvl3 dps.

TL;DR: buffer tanked drake is fine for lvls.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#19 - 2014-08-06 09:20:00 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:

Purgers don't increase your buffer, but they also keep your signature smaller.


Um..what?

A shield rig is a shield rig is a shield rig.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#20 - 2014-08-06 10:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Chi'Nane T'Kal
As a rule of thumb for PVE passive shield ships, you're aiming to increase the passive shield regen over increasing your buffer. Thus purger rigs and SPR.

The idea behind that is that not only will the higher regen compensate in the long run (PvE engagements usually last longer than PvP), once your peak regen at 25% is not enough you are in trouble, since if your shield drops below that value, it will not regenerate at all (or as good as, anyway).

However, since increasing the buffer will ALSO increase regen, it's sometimes advisable to pick a buffer item over a pure regen item, since the regen might still be higher. That's usually the case with large shield extender vs. shield recharger in med slots.

The same principle applies to resists btw., so in some cases it can be a better idea to fit a large shield extender than fitting an invulnerability field. (CAN because the extender adds an absolute bonus, while the invul applies a relative)

That said, a DCII is a resist module and the same principle applies, which usually makes a SPR the better choice for that tanky low slot. (Freeing up 14-18 CPU in the process)

(As a sidenote: other than availability there is NO reason whatsoever to fit a SPRII. Even less so when CPU is an issue.)


You're flying a 50M battlecruiser. The arbalest is clearly the best T1 launcher - in addition to giving you more DPS, it also uses less CPU, thus easing fitting requirements for other slots. We used those things back in the days when they cost about 10M, before the HM nerf. 2M is actually a bargain for what the module offers.



And lastly:
If you post fittings, try to do so in EFT format. That will make things easier for people trying to help. ("Copy to clipboard" in EFT

(I'm not sure if that empty med slot in your fitting is due to an omission or if you really left a slot empty?)
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