EVE General Discussion

Current anomalies generate isk , and still this is the safest thing CCP can implement.
You cannot put any current agent type or any LP to this system into this system as it would become worthless in very short time.

If you put higsec factions to SOV missions : higsec players become hit very fast also FW.
You cannot put there NPC Nullsec factions : as this will hit people sitting in NPC nullspace , and many people will have objections because doing this missions will ruin access to higsec missions.

Value of those NPC Faction LP will drop very , very fast. if whole north start to make guristas missions, then soon their LP value will be around 300-500isk per LP.
People will be angry that missions in SOV are worthless and don't provide isk for new ships.

You are wrong.
CCP will loose again, as nodes will die.
More likely we will have something like HED rather than next B-R.

You just agreed with me. The only way to win is to bring a node busting amount of subcaps. Neither side can win at this pont.

Nah, you won that war, PL was broken from the perspective that they simply could not throw the remaining supers under the bus, and remain existentially PL. They would not have used them, if you'd continued to move up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the decision to stop, I'm just pointing out that PL is not comfortable as an organization deploying its last fleet (even if individuals will risk a super or titan that won't be reimbursed) and would therefore have let you take any objective you desired.

That position PL found itself in was a risk of choosing to not fight on your side, even though that option probably always has been available to them, and if the CFC was broken up, and goonswarm faced an existential threat alone, we would see a different choice from PL.

Even after that massive welp we counldn't have invaded their space. Their carrier fleet was intact and we would have to push into cyno jammed space using subcaps that cant break them and cant tank them. Belive me if one of us could destroy the other then we would have done so.

Having been a renter for 10 months, I can describe it as the path of no resistance. Its very easy, and as its very easy, the satisfaction associated with it is what you'd expect and no more. Yes renters are made from sterner stuff than mission runners, and yes there is more work involved.

TEST is a very complicated example that involves personalities.

Carving off a constellation on the other hand (sufficient for 750 people to live in with a good spread of professions) is probably something that would be tolerated if one can figure out which constellations can be carved off from who and why.

IMO its own purpose, more enjoyable to me, win or lose than a large pile of isk and loot, and that's bearing in mind I'm a bear that loves isk and loots.

I think you might of missed my point.

If you want to live in null you have 3 options.

1. Live In NPC Null Sec

2. Try and take Sov from an opposing force

3. Rent.

If go with what is the path of least resistance, i.e which will earn me more isk for least effort then renting will always win. That should not be the case.

If you sit and think about what it actually takes to wage a null sec war it is actually quite insane.

First you need isk, a lot of isk, were talking hundreds of billions of isk as well as a source of income that will you allow you to absorbs tens of billions of more isk in losses becuase you will have fleets that whelp.

You need a hell of a logistics division. You need to make sure you can supply all your pilots with what ever doctrine ships you are using at all times. That means having multiple routes and a ridiculous amount of fuel to allow you JF's to travel constantly.

You need numerous secure pos's for your Capital Pilots to keep their Supers and Titans housed up in.

You need a SRP program that is quick and efficient.

You are going to want to be able to field subcap fleets of at least 150 guys with plenty more sitting in carriers + dreads + supers + titans.

On top of this your going to need numerous cyno pilots, booster pilots, scouts.

You going to need to do this in both US and EU timezones.

You are going to need a small group of highly skilled FC's that can lead your fleets as well as come up with new doctrines.

Chances are I have missed many other things that are essential but I'm pretty sure this covers the basic stuff.

You can do all of this and you will still crash and burn against the CFC or N3 because they have so much isk, they have the most experienced pilots, amazing logistic divisions, spies and alts everywhere, an incredible in depth knowledge on the mechanics of Eve.

On top of all of this you have Sov Mechanics which favours those who have more Capitals.

Put all of this together is it any wonder why people only want to rent and not bother fighting.

What ever you do you will usually find that people will hunt out what offers the path of least resistance so to counter that you have to have incentives for people to put the time and effort in and at the moment there really is no incentive for somebody to go to all the trouble of trying and for an alliance to take on either CFC or N3.

Kobol you are already beginning to convince yourself its possible because you are now onto details.

#1 - a build up in highsec is literally build as long as you like - you could spend 6 months on a build up, and during that time you could expend a moderate amount of resources on roaming (you need to have an organisation that has fighting in its DNA) and capturing assets like some moons and COs, and having been here and inspected carefully, I can tell you the sheer economic power of a highsec mission agent constellation has typically been the same as a whole nullsec region.

ie 750 people running up bounties at 10% tax for a few hours a week is 25B a month income to the corp, and 225B a month income privately amongst your members, and once you have hundreds of people you can protect moons and COs.

Note that Brave didn't actually run *completely* out of ships, SRP is an issue for alliances with established income, its not an issue for an alliance in highsec with personal incomes, and ultimately a worthy cause attracts benefactors with big pockets. The worthy cause of exploding barges has thus far extracted 350B from the willing. The equally worthy cause of sending new people to null and killing nullbears is surely worth the same, and your membership will contribute at the start.

#2 - a new wave of players to null isn't coming with toys like titans. Also, the logistics chain would not be just-in-time jumpfreighters it would be dispersed in advance, possibly to cover 3-4 potential targets (to mitigate high level spies), the dispersal points would be in low, not null, and jump freighter movements can have been done weeks in advance - you'd be moving the caches of the ships that were dispersed to other potential targets for some time - ie newbuild replacement ships shouldn't even been required at the start, and if you are invading, you have the advance knowledge, it is not you that is caught out logistically.

You would have some dreads and some carriers, but they would be used conservatively.

#3 - honestly who gives a **** if an invasion fails. Get more friends and do it again. You may find it *much* easier to get friends after reaching goals like fielding a full 256 or whatever it is player fleet or fielding 500 players on a timer. IMO reaching out to do this task is like PVP - you expect to lose your pixels half the time.

The point is in the task itself, it is not in isk/hr into your wallet. Everyone that wants to rent in null is already renting in null, because there is 10 regions of realestate. It is simply not the same thing as invading null, there is no path of least resistance to anyone that wants to invade null.

Ok lets look at your idea logically and you will see why its a horrible idea that sucks.

1) My alliance when I was renting from Atlas. could easily whiped out two belts in a day to get the lvl 1 mining system upgrade to activate, we might even kill two belts. So in your 'this will fix null' my alliance rented 5 systems, I had two corps that mined all day. Of my 5 systems I had maybe 20 belts. In apx 1 week all belts would of been stripped, and would not respawn. I'm also going to assume you don't want the mining upgrades to work anymore, so in a week 5 systems would of been husk. As I also assume you want rat spawns to be finite, so now you have no belts and no rats. and eventually the moon would deplete, this could take weeks, or years depending on the amount in a moon. So my alliance in this case either would not of gone to 0.0 as there would of been no point, rent would of cost through the roof. Now on the flip side, goons would not of hit up the renters for mineral rights, they would steam roll the renters and mine out there systems. at he same time the other power blocs would of mined there systems out. it would of come down to maybe a single system fight, then one done, that's it. Null would be depleted and empty.

or 2) no one would go to null, ever, period. As why spend a month there and then have nothing to do when you can stay in empire.

your idea is crap, sorry but it is.

Now if you say wanted it so a new item spawned elsewhere, then that's different. I.E. remove static belts and make the roid belts in null very valuable and huge that takes a while to deplete then they move, that might cause conflict. Your idea however would not.

Fail cascade of old and hollowed out organisations that were once after all part of power duopolies isn't a very relevant point I don't think. Other sister organisations survived, so survival is inherently properties of the organization.



There is plenty of evidence to suggest that supercapitals won't show up to kick anyone out of null unless they are in fact in some way broken. In any case, an organization originally based in highsec literally cannot be killed by supercaps. It can only be pushed back to highsec.



I'd like to do that myself, but I can assure you pblrd entities do not have sufficient recruiting standards to trust them with the simplest of intel, not even 10 minutes notice of a fleet destination, so I will not be invited to join such a defence. A corp with a very green nullsec killboard may get itself recruited to a cfc entity from pblrd, during peace time, that's about it.



I don't remotely understand how you believe that its a binary decision. There are 2 decision groups.

Do I rent or do I stay in highsec,
or
do I do faction warfare, rvb, join a merc or join a fleet organization related to nullsec. The two decision groups don't really overlap in the one person or corporation very much.