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PvE wars: The empires strike back

First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2014-07-29 19:24:48 UTC
Da Dom wrote:


FW is PvP. I was talking about upping the harshness of PvE so it's not just a grindfest. Imagine a smart AI that is constantly harassing players in the name of empire expansion


We would still farm them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2014-07-29 19:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Da Dom wrote:
Similar, but if sansha wins an incursion that system doesn't become part of his empire

That's because it would be idiotic to make it work that way since so many things would break for no good reason. But sure, if that's what you want, alter incursions so that any system affected is considered part of Sansha null until you've driven them off.
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-07-29 19:31:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Da Dom wrote:


FW is PvP. I was talking about upping the harshness of PvE so it's not just a grindfest. Imagine a smart AI that is constantly harassing players in the name of empire expansion


We would still farm them.


They could farm us to Cool

Because Far-que... That's why.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#24 - 2014-07-29 19:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Da Dom wrote:
How cool would it be to have NPC empires declare all out war on Null Sec and actively persue that goal with engaging AI fleets that aren't just easy to game rats

Discuss, troll, share cat pictures and always pass the dutchie to the left hand side




Not as cool as NPC corps (not the noob corps, the ones you get shunted to when you leave a player corp or the militia) would occasionally wardec each other.


There's no way Aliastra would never have a beef with Native Fresh Food for example.

Of course by the time such an epic change like that occurs there will probably be fewer people caring.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-07-29 19:40:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Da Dom
Tippia wrote:
That's because it would be idiotic to make it work that way since so many things would break for no good reason. But sure, if that's what you want, alter incursions so that any system affected is considered part of Sansha null until you've driven them off.

Yeah, but empire instead of sansha. Seems CCP is fostering us vs empire anyway, and the lore could be more player influenced then.

What do you think would break?

Because Far-que... That's why.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2014-07-29 19:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Da Dom wrote:
What do think would break?
People who have no interest in fiddling with boring NPCs would have their work interrupted for no benefit. Even the ones who are interested would be forced to deal with pointless annoyances.

Suddenly, someone who's been running mission for Caldari Navy and accumulated a massive standings loss against gallente would be insta-murdered by the gallente who have taken over his system. All his agents would be gone; all his POSes would be loaded with the wrong charters; all his trade orders would fail because he can't cover the extra taxes etc etc etc.

And that's just the NPC part. It wouldn't make any sense unless any organisation attacked can't attack back, so guess who'll have sovereignty over Jita? It won't be the Caldari, that's for sure…

…but that's if we change it to the empires for no apparent reason, so let's go back and actually ask the more relevant question first:

Quote:
Yeah, but empire instead of sansha.
Why, when Sansha already does it? What's the point of duplicating it with a different skin?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2014-07-29 19:55:18 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Da Dom wrote:


FW is PvP. I was talking about upping the harshness of PvE so it's not just a grindfest. Imagine a smart AI that is constantly harassing players in the name of empire expansion


We would still farm them.


They could farm us to Cool


They wont.
Christopher AET
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-07-29 19:59:22 UTC
So what you are proposing is...Empire Faction incursions..........Yeah we would farm them.

I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.

Bryen Verrisai
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-07-29 19:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bryen Verrisai
Tippia wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
What do think would break?
People who have no interest in fiddling with boring NPCs would have their work interrupted for no benefit. Even the ones who are interested would be forced to deal with pointless annoyances.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other here, but is this not the exact thing that PvE players are mocked for when they complain about someone ganking them? Interruption of gameplay by hostile outside forces is one of the driving mechanics of EVE, no?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2014-07-29 20:00:13 UTC
Da Dom wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
How cool would it be to have NPC empires declare all out war on Null Sec and actively persue that goal with engaging AI fleets that aren't just easy to game rats

Discuss, troll, share cat pictures and always pass the dutchie to the left hand side


Translation: "Yo CCP, I can't make enough friends to do it myself but I HATE null sec people so could you please do the heavy lifting for me please...Thanks!"


Translation: I haven't got a good argument so I'll just troll you. Will you bite me?


My 'argument' is simple. Instead of sitting around like an impotent 60s hippie shouting "when the revolution comes", why not do it your self if you perceive a problem that someone needs fixing? Why run to ccp asking for npc back up, EVE has ships with guns, invade null sec at your leisure.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-07-29 20:03:40 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
What do think would break?
People who have no interest in fiddling with boring NPCs would have their work interrupted for no benefit. Even the ones who are interested would be forced to deal with pointless annoyances.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other here, but is this not the exact thing that PvE players are mocked for when they complain about someone ganking them? Interruption of gameplay by hostile outside forces is one of the driving mechanics of EVE, no?

Exactly. Good point.

Big smile



DMC
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#32 - 2014-07-29 20:04:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


My 'argument' is simple. Instead of sitting around like an impotent 60s hippie shouting "when the revolution comes", why not do it your self if you perceive a problem that someone needs fixing? Why run to ccp asking for npc back up, EVE has ships with guns, invade null sec at your leisure.


You go first.

I got your back.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2014-07-29 20:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
I don't have an opinion one way or the other here, but is this not the exact thing that PvE players are mocked for when they complain about someone ganking them?
No, because there's a benefit to it and because it's under their control, unlike random NPC activities that benefit no-one and are only there to be annoying. The only benefit would be if they were there to be farmed, but that already exists in the form of incursions.

By the way, guess who'd complain the loudest when their mission hub is taken over by some opposing faction?

Quote:
Interruption of gameplay by hostile outside forces is one of the driving mechanics of EVE, no?
…which is why it already exists.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-29 20:10:08 UTC
Christopher AET wrote:
So what you are proposing is...Empire Faction incursions..........Yeah we would farm them.


Come on, the idea has some potential.
Like a great narrative.
Imagine, the Amarr empire goes crazy. Like, even crazier than before. They decide that every non-Amarr has to be wiped from the face of the galaxy. For god and the empire.
First, they kill Concord. No Concord in Highsec anymore.
Then, every Amarr player or player with a high enough Amarr standing becomes automatically hostile to the other 3 empires.
And we would have lots of funny content. Blink

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-07-29 20:14:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
People who have no interest in fiddling with boring NPCs would have their work interrupted for no benefit. Even the ones who are interested would be forced to deal with pointless annoyances.
So you don't like the idea of NPC gankers or protecting your stuff from them?

Tippia wrote:
Suddenly, someone who's been running mission for Caldari Navy and accumulated a massive standings loss against gallente would be insta-murdered by the gallente who have taken over his system. All his agents would be gone; all his POSes would be loaded with the wrong charters; all his trade orders would fail because he can't cover the extra taxes etc etc etc.
Added incentive to fight harder or move to a new system that's less hostile

Tippia wrote:
And that's just the NPC part. It wouldn't make any sense unless any organisation attacked can't attack back, so guess who'll have sovereignty over Jita? It won't be the Caldari, that's for sure…
Concord can still police hi sec and not take part

Quote:
Yeah, but empire instead of sansha.
Why, when Sansha already does it? What's the point of duplicating it with a different skin?[/quote] Something different. It wouldn't be an exact duplicate, more of an expansion Big smile

Because Far-que... That's why.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2014-07-29 20:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Da Dom wrote:
So you don't like the idea of NPC gankers or protecting your stuff from them?
Of course not. That's a job for players.
In fact, that's the fundamental flaw with your entire idea: you're asking for NPCs to do the job of players. That is the exact opposite of how things should be developed. What you should be asking for is player-controlled incursions.

Quote:
Added incentive to fight harder or move to a new system that's less hostile
Pointless annoyance with no purpose.

Quote:
Concord can still police hi sec and not take part
It won't be highsec any more, remember?

Quote:
Something different. It wouldn't be an exact duplicate, more of an expansion Big smile
In what way? And why?
Da Dom
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-07-29 20:17:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
How cool would it be to have NPC empires declare all out war on Null Sec and actively persue that goal with engaging AI fleets that aren't just easy to game rats

Discuss, troll, share cat pictures and always pass the dutchie to the left hand side


Translation: "Yo CCP, I can't make enough friends to do it myself but I HATE null sec people so could you please do the heavy lifting for me please...Thanks!"


Translation: I haven't got a good argument so I'll just troll you. Will you bite me?


My 'argument' is simple. Instead of sitting around like an impotent 60s hippie shouting "when the revolution comes", why not do it your self if you perceive a problem that someone needs fixing? Why run to ccp asking for npc back up, EVE has ships with guns, invade null sec at your leisure.


If I wanted to claim the null that the NPC empires conquered then I would have to fight them for it like anyone else, wouldn't I Cool

Because Far-que... That's why.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2014-07-29 20:25:46 UTC
Ocih wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


My 'argument' is simple. Instead of sitting around like an impotent 60s hippie shouting "when the revolution comes", why not do it your self if you perceive a problem that someone needs fixing? Why run to ccp asking for npc back up, EVE has ships with guns, invade null sec at your leisure.


You go first.

I got your back.


I already did it, ok well Vince Draken helped but I did the heavy lifting.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#39 - 2014-07-29 20:29:53 UTC
Bryen Verrisai wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Da Dom wrote:
What do think would break?
People who have no interest in fiddling with boring NPCs would have their work interrupted for no benefit. Even the ones who are interested would be forced to deal with pointless annoyances.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other here, but is this not the exact thing that PvE players are mocked for when they complain about someone ganking them? Interruption of gameplay by hostile outside forces is one of the driving mechanics of EVE, no?


Holy False Equivilence.

EVE is a player driven game, players are supposed to be able to do that, NPCs are not. If one doesn't care for the consequences of playing a player driven open sandbox game that features non-consensual pvp (one potential consequnece is ganking, which i have been able to avoid for 7 years), that's fine but they shouldn't be playing EVE.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2014-07-29 20:31:09 UTC
CONCORD should just take over.

CONCORDsec, instant response from their QRF

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?