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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

First post First post First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#441 - 2014-07-30 02:46:37 UTC
Trader Vinney wrote:
The Ishtar itself is not the whole issue it is also sentries. As a BS sized weapon system and a rate of fire at 4 seconds that is part of the reason it is overpowered. Other long range BS class weapons have a rate of fire from 9.5 to 40 seconds. This is constant applied DPS between targets. You also have the lack of reload time obviously for drones. Stepping the rate or fire up to someplace between Tachs and Howitzers may be something to put on paper.


That would only grant them higher alpha...
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
Feign Disorder
#442 - 2014-07-30 02:53:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Crazy thought for sentry drones:

Sentry drones are battleship sized weapons, in a very small hull. So they're taking liberties with shielding and the like, and are unstable.

When destroyed, they explode, damaging anything in a 6km radius, doing at least enough damage to kill any sentry drone (max boosted sentry drone, at that matter)

Oh, and push sentry drone deployment out to a 3km radius of the ship deploying them.




And just to take care of a potential issue, no sentry drone deployment within, say, 20km of a station or star gate.


Who are you? I don't remember voting for you. go away no name with no idea.
Sakura Nihil
Faded Light
#443 - 2014-07-30 02:58:59 UTC
Why can't we push off the changes that affect ship bonuses and the like until after the tournament? I thought that was the whole point of this 6-week patch release schedule, so that if something wasn't ready, or would cause adverse consequences for gameplay, it could be delayed.

Glad to see CCP management appreciates our hard work trying to put on a good show.
Petrified
Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#444 - 2014-07-30 03:00:43 UTC
Glad to see CCP is taking measured steps to address perceived/actual imbalances in the Ishtar rather than a knee jerk response that over-compensates. Thank you from a non-Ishtar Pilot.

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M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
Hostile Probes
#445 - 2014-07-30 03:08:54 UTC
Rise, Muninn needs love. It's tagged as shield tanking on the progression tree, but has twice as many low slots as med slots. It has 3 med slots and I'm expected to shield tank with that?

Give it some love, more so than the Eagle needs a buff the Muninn needs a much bigger buff. It just isn't usable unless it gets 4 mids. Take that slot from the lows or the highs, I don't care, but just give the poor thing a fourth mid!

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IrJosy
Club 1621
#446 - 2014-07-30 03:20:26 UTC
Aw the Ishtar can only hit out to 170km instead of 180km with drones. It will only go 2700 instead of 2800m/s. What big nurfs.

Still no Interceptor nerf? Does CCP even play EVE?
IrJosy
Club 1621
#447 - 2014-07-30 03:21:43 UTC
Corey Lean wrote:
captain foivos wrote:
I mean, clearly, Fozzie and friends have missed the memo: it ain't just the Ishtar. It's sentry drones.

Somebody over there coined the phrase: drones as a primary weapon system and they keep doubling down on it


This is my fault. I skyped them and complained that drones weren't being used enough in Alliance Tournaments. :(
Trader Vinney
KoKaine Kowboys
#448 - 2014-07-30 03:32:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Trader Vinney wrote:
The Ishtar itself is not the whole issue it is also sentries. As a BS sized weapon system and a rate of fire at 4 seconds that is part of the reason it is overpowered. Other long range BS class weapons have a rate of fire from 9.5 to 40 seconds. This is constant applied DPS between targets. You also have the lack of reload time obviously for drones. Stepping the rate or fire up to someplace between Tachs and Howitzers may be something to put on paper.


That would only grant them higher alpha...


That would only grant them higher alpha if say the damage modifier is changed. Slower rate of fire does not automatically equate to higher alpha.
Julius Foederatus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2014-07-30 03:41:15 UTC
I usually don't comment on these threads but those of you complaining about sentries are bad and should feel bad for whining about them on the forums. Think a little bit outside the box and you'd see that sentry ishtars do indeed have a hard counter. But I get that people would rather whine on the forums than think about how to play the game. It's unsurprising that the dude from Black Legion is one of maybe three people on this thread who actually understands the drawbacks to sentries.

In any case, I think this nerf is pretty level headed and appropriate, which is probably the only time I'll say that in a CCP Rise balancing thread.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#450 - 2014-07-30 03:42:01 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys

PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?


I'd feel better about a 8/7/4 tempest with falloff and rof bonuses tbh.

HAC changes look ok, though the Ishtar's is a very conservative change. Stil, see how it goes and fix it the following month Cool

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Rheba
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#451 - 2014-07-30 03:49:55 UTC
Please do something about the sacrilege. 2 low less low slots than the zealot and its meant to be the tanky one?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#452 - 2014-07-30 04:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Galphii wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys

PS - how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?


I'd feel better about a 8/7/4 tempest with falloff and rof bonuses tbh.

HAC changes look ok, though the Ishtar's is a very conservative change. Stil, see how it goes and fix it the following month Cool



Nah
7/7/5

That would be sick.

Though keep damage bonus but I like the falloff bonus idea

edit:
what i would do i make the damage bonus 10% per level and up the turrets to 7 so that means you have 10.5 effective turrets which is just slightly more then you get now.

also with a 10% falloff bonus it will make it a pretty good long range ship with enough lows for dcu II 3 gyros and a te or nano.

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Seolfor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#453 - 2014-07-30 04:20:58 UTC
For the love of god, DO NOT LOSE this opportunity to save the Munnin.

Who knows when again you will do a HAC balance pass.

This ship is so damn pigeon-holed and basically, bad.

Just give it the Scythe Fleet treatment i.e. Dual Bonus. This will give the ship a much needed uniqueness, adaptability, viability beyond Alpha Arty Null-Fleets.

With launchers you will see its usage increase in High,Low And Null. It will become a great Bearing platform in Amarr/Sansha space.

It will see greater use in FW and Lowsec piracy.

It will provide the Minmatar race a 2nd T2 launcher platform, cause while youve given them Breacher-Talwar-Bellicose-ScyFl-Cyclone-Typhoon, only ONE T2 option exists i.e. Claymore.

Please - save the Munnin - give it dual bonus. Stop making it a bloated Rupture. The buff to speed is so out of place and does NOTHING to increase its attractiveness.
kidkoma
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#454 - 2014-07-30 04:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: kidkoma
If I were to ballence the ishtar, I would give it a 75 Mbit/sec bandwith.

For example, an Ishtar with three DDA's useing 3 guard 2's = 421dps with an engagement range of 41k

Where a Zealot with Heavy Pulse II's and scorch with 3 heat sinks has 456dps at 39k.

Cutting it's bandwith to 75mbit/sec will bring it closer to what the other HAC's can do. Without killing it.

You would still get the choice of engament ranges. I would give it a heavy drone bonus so it can brawl as well.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#455 - 2014-07-30 04:33:49 UTC
this would be pretty cool if they did this to the munnin

Minmatar Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed

slots:
5 high
4 mid
6 low

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#456 - 2014-07-30 04:38:57 UTC
Trader Vinney wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Trader Vinney wrote:
The Ishtar itself is not the whole issue it is also sentries. As a BS sized weapon system and a rate of fire at 4 seconds that is part of the reason it is overpowered. Other long range BS class weapons have a rate of fire from 9.5 to 40 seconds. This is constant applied DPS between targets. You also have the lack of reload time obviously for drones. Stepping the rate or fire up to someplace between Tachs and Howitzers may be something to put on paper.


That would only grant them higher alpha...


That would only grant them higher alpha if say the damage modifier is changed. Slower rate of fire does not automatically equate to higher alpha.


You didn't say their DPS would go down so I have to assume it would stay the same.
Taleden
North Wind Local no. 612
#457 - 2014-07-30 04:41:16 UTC
The Muninn and Eagle both suffer from the same basic problem: they are evidently supposed to be "sniper" cruisers, but there just isn't really much reason to ever snipe in a cruiser. An attack battlecruiser hits harder from further, and at snipe ranges the sig/tracking advantages of medium turrets vs large are basically irrelevant.

I don't know what the solution is, but it really feels like both of these ships are trying to fill a niche that just doesn't exist.
Trader Vinney
KoKaine Kowboys
#458 - 2014-07-30 04:47:20 UTC
To the point of the Abaddon need for change possibility this may not be the ship itself but actually the weapon systems and as some have pointed out the tough fitting requirements for this ship. For instance has anyone noticed the lack of use when it comes to the Tachyon Beam Laser II? There is a reason for this and out of the 6 ships in the game that have bonuses to this weapon system only two of them can actually fit them without going over powergrid with just the guns.

APOC and Abaddon 8 T2 Tachs fit 101.81% PG
Armageddon Navy 7 T2 Tachs fit 106.91% PG
Nestor 5 T2 Tachs fit 118.78% PG
Navy Apoc 8 T2 Tachs fit 97.19% PG
Nightmare 4 T2 Tachs fit 73.73% PG

I am not saying that the Tach is the best option for these ships well because Scorch owns but just another thought since Battleships are in discussion.


Trader Vinney
KoKaine Kowboys
#459 - 2014-07-30 04:48:57 UTC
[/quote]

You didn't say their DPS would go down so I have to assume it would stay the same.[/quote]

Valid I did not state that either way.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#460 - 2014-07-30 04:51:23 UTC
Trader Vinney wrote:
To the point of the Abaddon need for change possibility this may not be the ship itself but actually the weapon systems and as some have pointed out the tough fitting requirements for this ship. For instance has anyone noticed the lack of use when it comes to the Tachyon Beam Laser II? There is a reason for this and out of the 6 ships in the game that have bonuses to this weapon system only two of them can actually fit them without going over powergrid with just the guns.

APOC and Abaddon 8 T2 Tachs fit 101.81% PG
Armageddon Navy 7 T2 Tachs fit 106.91% PG
Nestor 5 T2 Tachs fit 118.78% PG
Navy Apoc 8 T2 Tachs fit 97.19% PG
Nightmare 4 T2 Tachs fit 73.73% PG

I am not saying that the Tach is the best option for these ships well because Scorch owns but just another thought since Battleships are in discussion.




While you are more or less correct that Large Lasers have some fitting issues (in fact the Laser system needs a full rework imo), the situation we have right now is not really going to be solved with that.

Mostly because the Apocalypse and the Armageddon are performing acceptably well at present. The Abaddon does not, and while the issue lies in the guns, buffing them would also buff the Apoc, which could easily end up being overpowered afterward.

But in general I do agree with you, the fitting on those things is quite absurd.

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