Ships & Modules

Lets assume that two T1BS, for the price of one NBS (Navy BS), can take down a PBS (Pirate BS). I think its a safe assumption.

So then if the progression of attributes in the ship levels is at a fixed rate, then logically (we assume EVE has set it this way), two or more NBS should be able to take down a MBS (Marauder BS), for the price of one PBS. Because the higher meta levels are better.

So the principle is (ISK value):

a) NBS == 2*T1BS. 2*T1BS > PBS.

Similar as:
b) PBS == 2*NBS. 2*NBS > MBS

However I do not think that for the price of one PBS, you can get two NBS. For example, the Scorpion NI costs 539M ISK on average. The Machariel costs 657M ISK. You cannot sell the PBS for 2 NBS.

So this means the second part of the principle (part b) is wrong. What does that mean?

Well I think it only means one thing; Navy BS are not cost effective in PvP.

That disappoints me. I think Navy BS should be used in PvP and should be cost effective. Otherwise, why would I risk my ISK over a ship that I know is not as effective as T1 BS?

What do you think? Agree with my cray cray analysis? Do you think NBS should be more cost effective (ie: decreasing their price)?

Before the pirate balancing, you could get almost 3 rattlers for the price of a mach.

Stop using ISK as an index of how good the ships are, by your logic a titan should be able to take down 140 Scorpion Navy Issues. Or 70 000 rifters.

Why is that relevant?


Why shouldn't I use ISK to value the ships? We use ISK to buy them ...

So maybe you've never herd the Devs talk about balancing the price of ships.

That doesn't mean price isn't a factor.

are you talking about material prices or end prices?
end prices are defined by the market, if people want to buy them at those prices they will be sold at that price point.

How do I fly two T1 BS at once?

I said the pirate ships would lose vs 2 T1 ships, didn't I? (see post 1).

I think every part of the ship is part of the ship overall balancing. Including the cost.


But combat effectiveness increases value of the ship thus you would sell it at a higher ISK price. ISK is a competition. Thats why people are willing to spend millions of ISK to get that extra 5%. They want to get ahead.

This is moving away from the point I think.

The problem in my view is that navy ships are not as cost effective in regards to the other BS, because they cost more then they should.

Obviously you can't

... you give the second ship to a member in your fleet (or someone who's going into the fight with you).


Balancing the price of ships is important because it is a cost. Everything has a cost, even ammo. If your enemy run out of ISK, they cannot use the better modules, the better ships, the better implants .... They are defeated.


Well material prices are effected by the market as well. And that means its subject to supply and demand.

Guess I'm talking about material price then.

Good job at comparing a hull used for PvE (high demand, every scrub can fly a navy scorp) with a hull used for PvP and L4 blitzing exclusively (that also takes a boatload of SP to fly properly).

Navy BS are roughly 400mil, Pirate BS are roughly 900mil, the current low for the mach is just the result of many missioners not getting exactly WHY the mach is currently the most superior L4-boat.

There is a great many things wrong with this thread. Here is a list of just a tiny fraction of those things (heck some of them might be wrong as well, whatever):

1) horrendously faulty assumptions. Why do we assume 2 t1BS = 1 NBS? What do you base this on? Does 1NBS have double the health of 1t1 BS? Damage? Anything?
2) Assuming that all t1 bs are equal, that all NBS are equal, heck assuming that a t1 and the NBS based on that hull even perform the same functions or can be flown the same way. Comparing apples to the latest issue of Time magazine.
3) completely ignoring the specific/general tasks the hulls are suited for. some hulls make amazing pvp boats, others are far better at pve. this effects demand and thus price.
3.1) not taking into account target markets. incurtion runners have the isk to pay for expensive hulls while pvpers need hulls cheaper.
4) not taking into account the source of these ships, cheap lp stores and easy access for navy hulls but rare drops or hard to access lp stores for pirate hulls.
5) doctrines greatly effect the price of hulls as supply and demand are constantly in flux as they adapt to doctrines
6) patch changes effecting ship prices while their raw cost stays exactly the same (compare most recently gila, rattler, sni, mach, etc.)
7) actual usefulness of a hull (demand) and other uses for the same lp (supply) nestor is an excellent example of this. its **** but one of the most expensive pirate BS currently afaik.
8) unconventional uses of a hull where whole roles are ignored or it is used not how it was intended. see incurtions, all pvp ever, all pve ever.

Basically this whole thread is a troll/farce. the amount of assumptions and conceding the op ask us to do to construct this fantasy scenario is a joke.