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PVE? NO,only PVC(CCP).Maybe I should leave EVE too
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2014-07-26 12:46:06 UTC
Arcelian wrote:


Effort and risk, huh...right...

Not saying the OP is right in any way, but that's some strong wording there to describe null...


Feel free to go build yourself an empire in null.
Arcelian
0nus
#22 - 2014-07-26 12:56:18 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Arcelian wrote:

Effort and risk, huh...right...

Not saying the OP is right in any way, but that's some strong wording there to describe null...

First: Every time I see someone say something like this, I wonder if they've ever done anything in nullsec, beyond being a line member, shooting at red crosses for ISK, and occasionally joining a pvp fleet. There's a lot of pain in the ass involved with it.
Second: Nullsec happens to be a long term investment. The alliances that still hold space there, are receiving dividends for their previous risk and effort, on top of what is required to maintain the space.


I know it's a giant pain in the ass, that's why I left. A lot of politics and well....crap.

baltec1 wrote:

Feel free to go build yourself an empire in null.


I didn't personally build one, I was in a corp that helped build an alliance, then someone came and took over the space. They are now in a coalition to avoid that "risk" from happening again.

Nope, not bitter at all.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2014-07-26 13:14:38 UTC
Arcelian wrote:


I didn't personally build one, I was in a corp that helped build an alliance, then someone came and took over the space. They are now in a coalition to avoid that "risk" from happening again.

Nope, not bitter at all.


You honestly think no work goes into maintaining that coalition?
Arcelian
0nus
#24 - 2014-07-26 13:17:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:


I didn't personally build one, I was in a corp that helped build an alliance, then someone came and took over the space. They are now in a coalition to avoid that "risk" from happening again.

Nope, not bitter at all.


You honestly think no work goes into maintaining that coalition?



Where did I ever say no work goes into maintaining a coalition? If Tippia were here, he'd be going all strawman all the f*ck over you right now.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2014-07-26 13:20:45 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Where did I ever say no work goes into maintaining a coalition?
You insinuated that effort and risk were not the right words for describing null.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-07-26 13:22:13 UTC
high sec pve needs rebalancing. i wouldn't expect them to actually come out and say that without flame retardant clothing on though.

because that means they have to put dev resources into making tools to rebuild missions. and people don't like this because it's pandering to teh ebil carebears. event though currently blitz missions pay out disproportionate amounts of LP for effort and simply googling 'LP store' will tell you how to get rich off it.

forums.  serious business.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-07-26 13:28:07 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:


I didn't personally build one, I was in a corp that helped build an alliance, then someone came and took over the space. They are now in a coalition to avoid that "risk" from happening again.

Nope, not bitter at all.


You honestly think no work goes into maintaining that coalition?



Where did I ever say no work goes into maintaining a coalition? If Tippia were here, he'd be going all strawman all the f*ck over you right now.

Now that Tippia has posted, allow me to say: ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#28 - 2014-07-26 13:31:17 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
high sec pve needs rebalancing. i wouldn't expect them to actually come out and say that without flame retardant clothing on though.

because that means they have to put dev resources into making tools to rebuild missions. and people don't like this because it's pandering to teh ebil carebears. event though currently blitz missions pay out disproportionate amounts of LP for effort and simply googling 'LP store' will tell you how to get rich off it.

Funnily enough, they've gone out and said that they're building those tools and guess what the reaction was…?
Arcelian
0nus
#29 - 2014-07-26 13:32:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Where did I ever say no work goes into maintaining a coalition?
You insinuated that effort and risk were not the right words for describing null.


Is there some risk and effort put into null? Absolutely. I have first-hand experience, actually: https://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22172837

Is it proportionate to the reward, with current game mechanics? Nope.

I'm not gonna get into the specifics of it and derail the purpose of this post (if there ever was any), but high risk and high effort are not the words I would use to describe null sec for the average null-bear.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-07-26 13:34:05 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
high sec pve needs rebalancing. i wouldn't expect them to actually come out and say that without flame retardant clothing on though.

because that means they have to put dev resources into making tools to rebuild missions. and people don't like this because it's pandering to teh ebil carebears. event though currently blitz missions pay out disproportionate amounts of LP for effort and simply googling 'LP store' will tell you how to get rich off it.

Funnily enough, they've gone out and said that they're building those tools and guess what the reaction was…?


about 3 hits on the term 'themepark' per page?

i'm sure they carefully spun it though as they're completely terrified of you all.

forums.  serious business.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2014-07-26 13:35:07 UTC
Arcelian wrote:


I'm not gonna get into the specifics of it and derail the purpose of this post (if there ever was any), but high risk and high effort are not the words I would use to describe null sec for the average null-bear.


Well if its not high risk what does that make high sec?
Arcelian
0nus
#32 - 2014-07-26 13:43:17 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
Where did I ever say no work goes into maintaining a coalition?
You insinuated that effort and risk were not the right words for describing null.


And mentioned nothing about a coalition. I know very well that top leadership in a coalition/alliance is very busy, hell our CEO pretty much flew a desk....in space.

In creating these coalitions however it does create much less risk, and much less effort, as there's not much to worry about when you can choose who you want to fight just based off of the power of sheer numbers.

If you are farming in null sec, you have copious intel channels, both adjacent regions are blue to you, and you have the largest number of playerresiding in null set to blue, really so risky? Null sec in most aspects is more convenient and safe than high.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#33 - 2014-07-26 13:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
And mentioned nothing about a coalition.
Hence “insinuate” rather than “state outright”. It doesn't change the fact that you tried to downplay the efforts and risks involved.

Quote:
In creating these coalitions however it does create much less risk, and much less effort, as there's not much to worry about when you can choose who you want to fight just based off of the power of sheer numbers.
In other words, the whole point of creating these coalitions is to reduce the massive risk and effort involved, making them very good words to use to describe null.

Claiming otherwise only ever proves a complete ignorance of null.

Skeln Thargensen wrote:
about 3 hits on the term 'themepark' per page?
Nope.
The reaction was one of optimism because such tools are very clearly needed.

In fact, the ones who'd be most strongly against such a development would be said carebears since they'd have to change the way they play… (cf. the insignificant difference created by having Level-1 AI in missions, and the massive outcry this created).
Arcelian
0nus
#34 - 2014-07-26 13:52:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:


I'm not gonna get into the specifics of it and derail the purpose of this post (if there ever was any), but high risk and high effort are not the words I would use to describe null sec for the average null-bear.


Well if its not high risk what does that make high sec?




Null sec was supposed to be high risk, high reward, a lot of effort. And it is, for a select few. What I'm describing is the OP, the average cog in the null bloc machine. A ratter, a miner, explorer, industrialist.

Due to the current organization of null sec, it's actually easier to make money there than anywhere else. No one is going to war dec you unless they are trying to catch you in empire. No one is going to gank you at a gate. Some random guy isn't going to come blow up your mining ship, unless you are stupid.

All because everyone has blued up and we are all one big happy family. With the monopoly the way that it is, it's only going to get worse.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2014-07-26 13:54:04 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Due to the current organization of null sec, it's actually easier to make money there than anywhere else. No one is going to war dec you unless they are trying to catch you in empire. No one is going to gank you at a gate. Some random guy isn't going to come blow up your mining ship, unless you are stupid.
So it's actually still a fair bit riskier than highsec, then.
Arcelian
0nus
#36 - 2014-07-26 14:01:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Arcelian wrote:
And mentioned nothing about a coalition.
Hence “insinuate” rather than “state outright”. It doesn't change the fact that you tried to downplay the efforts and risks involved.

Quote:
In creating these coalitions however it does create much less risk, and much less effort, as there's not much to worry about when you can choose who you want to fight just based off of the power of sheer numbers.
In other words, the whole point of creating these coalitions is to reduce the massive risk and effort involved, making them very good words to use to describe null.

Claiming otherwise only ever proves a complete ignorance of null.


Right.... and like I said earlier, it now creates a low risk, low effort environment for the average null sec dweller. Only a few entities can now come and ruin your day, because they don't want to deal with the whole lot of you. I'm not talking about null before coalitions existed, I'm talking about it in it's current state.

Whether player organization or game mechanics has made it low risk or not, right now, it is low risk.

You have much experience in null Tippia? Is this just your forum warrior alt? Are you secretly the mittani in disguise?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2014-07-26 14:02:04 UTC
Arcelian wrote:


All because everyone has blued up and we are all one big happy family. With the monopoly the way that it is, it's only going to get worse.


You are aware that we are currently running three deployments to fight off invasions of our space aren't you?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2014-07-26 14:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Arcelian wrote:
Right.... and like I said earlier, it now creates a low risk, low effort environment for the average null sec dweller. Only a few entities can now come and ruin your day, because they don't want to deal with the whole lot of you. I'm not talking about null before coalitions existed, I'm talking about it in it's current state.
…a state that sees more destruction, more effort, and more risk than highsec through a combination of unavoidable mechanics and player activity.

Quote:
Whether player organization or game mechanics has made it low risk or not, right now, it is low risk.
Lower than before, maybe, but still vastly higher than anything highsec has to offer.

Put another way: null is characterised by the risk and effort involved. Highsec is characterised by the complete absence of both. So yes, they're pretty good words for describing null.
Arcelian
0nus
#39 - 2014-07-26 14:08:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arcelian wrote:


All because everyone has blued up and we are all one big happy family. With the monopoly the way that it is, it's only going to get worse.


You are aware that we are currently running three deployments to fight off invasions of our space aren't you?



Of course they are, who else are they going to invade?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-07-26 14:11:40 UTC
POPCORN,GET YOUR POPCORN HERE!!!

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.