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command ships, to command or not to command?
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GreenSeed
#21 - 2014-07-27 01:24:46 UTC
a more combat oriented Astarte?

more?

that thing as an absolute BEAST. Blaster Astarte is already quite scary, rail Astarte is completely out of control. rail Vultures are even more stupid.

i mean, i can understand making a more combat oriented Damnation... its a fantastic hull, but the extra tank bonus does feel kinda wasted when what you want is pew pew... but the Astarte is by far the most combat oriented of all the command ships, even with that awful active tank bonus.

and lol@ people claiming "introducing" HAC Bcs is a bad thing... you are too late. they are already HAC bcs. they already have Battleship tanks, with resist profiles that are quite frankly stupid. (absolutions anyone?) and they actually do more DPS than battleships. not just on EFT numbers alone, they use 125 signature guns... so they actually apply their paper DPS. (unlike ABCs.) and the argument of "well battleships still have better projection" is bullshit. Astartes have the same projection, and vultures are obscene.

and about the navy BCs... yeah they are ridiculously overpriced. 100% overprice is fine, but on most hulls you are still looking at 200% / 300%. but that's not all fault of the pricing scheme, its also FW people expecting not only to buy hulls at reduced price, but also get more isk/lp than anyone else.

no one uses those hulls, so once the traders get saturated on hulls they will have to start dumping them. just look at Navy Hurricanes, they are cheap enough to get used solo.
Brutus Le'montac
#22 - 2014-07-27 01:26:47 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:

and look, if you dont like what you read, then dont post? how about that? sounds easy eh?


No. That's not how a discussion works.


there is a difference between discussion and being a lil **** burning down an discussion...

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#23 - 2014-07-27 02:10:02 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:

and look, if you dont like what you read, then dont post? how about that? sounds easy eh?


No. That's not how a discussion works.


there is a difference between discussion and being a lil **** burning down an discussion...


If your proposal can't stand on it's own merit, then there was likely a problem with the proposal.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Brutus Le'montac
#24 - 2014-07-27 02:27:52 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:

and look, if you dont like what you read, then dont post? how about that? sounds easy eh?


No. That's not how a discussion works.


there is a difference between discussion and being a lil **** burning down an discussion...


If your proposal can't stand on it's own merit, then there was likely a problem with the proposal.



my proposal stands fine, but saying blabla repost bla bla bla doesnt ad anything at all. anyways back to the topic.

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-27 02:36:32 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
as most know, command ships are most of the time used as OGB ships.
some of the requirements to fly them involve more or less heavy skilling into leadership.

ofcourse this does fit their role when used as an OGB, but not so much for anything else.
and that brings me to my proposal:

most t1 ships have 2 t2 variants, which are both used for a different role, or have different skill requirements/ ship bonusses.
the t2 line of the battlecruisers however all have the same role more or less. which is boosting a fleet. only a few are used as front line combat vessels.

lets take the gallante line as example, a t1 brutix becomes a t2 astarte, a t1 myrmidon becomes a t2 eos, both the eos and the astarte get similair bonusses to gang links.

why not keep the eos as it is, both in skill requirement and role/ship bonus, and make somehting new out of the astarte hull?

for example, remove the leadership skill requirements form the astarte, remove the command ship skillbook requirement and bonusses, and create a new skillbook, with new more combat focussed bonusses?
this way, we have a t2 battlecruiser that can be used for pvp, without screaming I HAZ LINKS PRIMI MEH.

keep the t2 damage ressist profile, but give it somehting new, something that does not require leadership skills to be used.
i just hope we can get a tech 2 battlecruiser that is more combat capable, with supporting fleets as a second seat, or none at all.

any people who see somehting in this?

also i know some people have problems with how ogb works, however this is not an ogb thread, so i wanna ask you to keep that out of this thread.



I am still not sure what role this new ship would have that is not already fufilled by the current iteration of faction/navy battlecruisers.
A. This proposal of the OP's would screw people that chose to use the astarte over the eos for boosting.
B. There is a third battlecruiser hull that is not currently used in a t2 function.
C. Just what do battlecruisers (in general) need, to be more combat capable? they have already been nerfed a bit because they were for a long time, the only nonblob combat ship worth using.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2014-07-27 02:50:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
command ships were changed so that they could fit between combat or command roles.

if ur gripe is with skill requirements, fly a HAC or T3.

or convince me why u need a tankier-blappier HAC that isnt a command ship.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Brutus Le'montac
#27 - 2014-07-27 03:09:58 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
as most know, command ships are most of the time used as OGB ships.
some of the requirements to fly them involve more or less heavy skilling into leadership.

ofcourse this does fit their role when used as an OGB, but not so much for anything else.
and that brings me to my proposal:

most t1 ships have 2 t2 variants, which are both used for a different role, or have different skill requirements/ ship bonusses.
the t2 line of the battlecruisers however all have the same role more or less. which is boosting a fleet. only a few are used as front line combat vessels.

lets take the gallante line as example, a t1 brutix becomes a t2 astarte, a t1 myrmidon becomes a t2 eos, both the eos and the astarte get similair bonusses to gang links.

why not keep the eos as it is, both in skill requirement and role/ship bonus, and make somehting new out of the astarte hull?

for example, remove the leadership skill requirements form the astarte, remove the command ship skillbook requirement and bonusses, and create a new skillbook, with new more combat focussed bonusses?
this way, we have a t2 battlecruiser that can be used for pvp, without screaming I HAZ LINKS PRIMI MEH.

keep the t2 damage ressist profile, but give it somehting new, something that does not require leadership skills to be used.
i just hope we can get a tech 2 battlecruiser that is more combat capable, with supporting fleets as a second seat, or none at all.

any people who see somehting in this?

also i know some people have problems with how ogb works, however this is not an ogb thread, so i wanna ask you to keep that out of this thread.



I am still not sure what role this new ship would have that is not already fufilled by the current iteration of faction/navy battlecruisers.
A. This proposal of the OP's would screw people that chose to use the astarte over the eos for boosting.
B. There is a third battlecruiser hull that is not currently used in a t2 function.
C. Just what do battlecruisers (in general) need, to be more combat capable? they have already been nerfed a bit because they were for a long time, the only nonblob combat ship worth using.



A, it would not, because the astarte and eos boosts are almost the same.
B that would be the tier 3 line, those are already specialized because they can use large guns over medium, if those would get a t2 version it would be a mini battleship.
C with more combat capable i mean less of a boosts ship, as it is now just to fly them you have to train a ton of leadership skills, you dont always need those, only if you are desinated booster, i, as a solo pilot, dont need the boosts but would like a t2 Bc. why should i be forced to train skills i wont use in the role i wanna use it? with other ships i can make a decision between type A or B, who both require different skills, with t2 battlecruisers i can not.

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
Rolstra
Moo's Mudpit
#28 - 2014-07-27 03:23:41 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
... edited out....

I am wondering about Tyunir Issier, did that character bazzar toon not work out for you? Or do you just need another Command ship pilot, and don't want to buy one or train one?
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#29 - 2014-07-27 03:39:03 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:

my proposal stands fine, but saying blabla repost bla bla bla doesnt ad anything at all. anyways back to the topic.


The topic is old. It's been brought up dozens of times and discussed from dozens of angles. Try to understand if the rest of the members of the forum can't be motivated to reply to or care about recycled ideas that have already been deemed less desirable than other solutions for valid and easily understood reasons, which are easily found with a little research.

"Blah Blah Blah repost Blah Blah" is all of the effort you're going to get in a response if the effort you put into your suggestion amounts to "Blah Blah Blah gimme toys, no one else gets any Blah Blah".

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Brutus Le'montac
#30 - 2014-07-27 04:39:33 UTC
Rolstra wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
... edited out....

I am wondering about Tyunir Issier, did that character bazzar toon not work out for you? Or do you just need another Command ship pilot, and don't want to buy one or train one?



that one works perfect! but i really only use it as ogb right now it need a lot more training before i can bring it on grid.
its also a good example.

i want this one to fly t2 battlecruisers some day aswell, but why train up for the same stuff?

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#31 - 2014-07-27 11:24:19 UTC
1k DPS with hella resist profiles is already easy on most command ships, with medium gun application and usually bonused medium gun application.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
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