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What ever happened to that IC research thing i was seeing so much about?

First post
Author
Mirima Thurander
#21 - 2011-12-01 00:05:40 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
Aedeal wrote:
I asked Hilen earlier:

A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it?


It's the latter. Or, to be more specific: As far as I know it's an open/unwritten story with general hints on what they plan/or might want to introduce, but the generic scope and progress is solely defined by player interactions and their decisions.

E.g. today there've been several attacks on ships operating/working on the site, while other players tried to defend them. It's been less about "pew pew" or action - and also there wasn't much of story progress, but it's still been fun for me (and others as well probably).




i was there it was some guy going on about the belonging to the nation and the lack of security





side note that orca it got blown up ( and so did all the media ships and alot of the mini guard ships )

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-12-01 08:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
There were actually an incident before that, Mirima, where minutes old characters (one in a Raven and another in a Crow) attacked Site One only to warp off along the path of the off-line acceleration gate and then self-destruct both ships and pods. Clearly CCP characters but very weird behavior.

Late edit: attacking and destroying NPC ships at Site One reduces your standing with the Minmatar Republic.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#23 - 2011-12-01 09:52:09 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
Aedeal wrote:
I asked Hilen earlier:

A blunt question: What is the Arek'Jaalan event about? Are we uncovering a story laid out by the team, or are we writing the story as we uncover it?


It's the latter. Or, to be more specific: As far as I know it's an open/unwritten story with general hints on what they plan/or might want to introduce, but the generic scope and progress is solely defined by player interactions and their decisions.

E.g. today there've been several attacks on ships operating/working on the site, while other players tried to defend them. It's been less about "pew pew" or action - and also there wasn't much of story progress, but it's still been fun for me (and others as well probably).



That's the 'Arek'Jaalan site' story, I'm referring specifically to the Sleeper/Talocan mystery. Cos to be totally frank, if there is no CCP-written backstory to this, I give up right here right now, cos only the people that shout the loudest about how their ideas are right will get listened to by CCP. Don't stop the RP protests, random killings etc, I love reading bout that, but I like the detective work of the Sleeper/Talocan problem. Unless it's not detective work, just having to make something up and shout my mouth off full blast. That sucks.

TLDR: If there's not an actual CCP answer to what happened, loudest shouter wins, event is sucky.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-01 10:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
I know what you are getting at, Aedeal, because I have been there myself. I actually started to dislike the old Sleeper discussions threads because they consisted mostly of people coming up with one crazy theory after another which very often contradicted known prime fiction. But in their defense, they properly were not aware of this prime fiction as a lot of it is hidden in mission descriptions and site descriptions within the game. Hence, I am trying to make that lore a bit more accessible through the Lorebook. CCP Dropbear picked up on the issue too and that is what A'J is all about; collecting all the pieces and sort them in a central register so people know where to look. And through that, convert our OOC knowledge to IC.

Still, A'J suffered some initial confusion about what its purpose was among its participants. Some thought it was some sort of power block, similarly to an alliance of corporations, rising and rushed to secure themselves positions in, what they thought, would be the directing and leading organs (the Ethical Committee and Security Divisions). Now those two divisions have gone nearly completely inactive.

Another issue is the people who thought that A'J would be a way to get verification to your personal theory from the Storyline team thereby skipping the work it requires to find the supporting prime fiction yourself. People failed to realize that the game was not about thinking up a research project and wait for others to provide the results, but to actually have an idea what the outcome of your project would be. One of the things I learned from my PhD was that you do not do a scientific project without some idea what the outcome will be. In other words, "if you don’t know what you’re looking for, you’ll likely not find anything."

Of course, demanding that people have a PhD to do fictional science is a bit steep, but I think A'J has potential as long as people remembers to make it clear for themselves and others what their theory is based upon. And if that is Wikipedia alone we are not going to be good friends. Ahem… In general people should realize the power of using strong references for their arguments.

There is no final written CCP backstory to this, that is clear to me now. Instead I, and others, can take what it written so far and build upon it for, what the evidence suggests, would be the most likely outcome. Is the Jove Empire in recession? I say it is.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#25 - 2011-12-01 18:27:38 UTC
Well then you have the challenge of working out which bits of CCP lore should make the transition from the old to the new!
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-01 20:15:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
It is indeed a challenge and sadly many people find it very hard to put together a theory IC. It is just my wish they would try and it would be my pleasure to help finding supportive (and/or contradicting) PF material for their hypothesis, if they wish.

So far Dropbear has neither proclaimed any of the conclusions of the A'J projects as "true" or "false" so no pet theories have been approved or dismissed from CCPs side yet. Though, we have not seen what a Eifyr & Co review actually means for an article. Also, CCP Abraxas hinted the some of the stuff produced in A'J might tickle into the Fiction Portal, potentially giving it an official PF approval.

As you, I am not hoping they are going to pick up material from those that make the most noise (and spam them with eve-mails to get attention) but judge it based on what has most support in already existing PF material. The worst thing that could happen, as I see it, is if they pick up some theory completely out of left field and rework the existing PF material to make it fit. That theory might not necessarily come from a player, though...

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-12-02 09:56:16 UTC
Aedeal wrote:
That's the 'Arek'Jaalan site' story, I'm referring specifically to the Sleeper/Talocan mystery. Cos to be totally frank, if there is no CCP-written backstory to this, I give up right here right now, cos only the people that shout the loudest about how their ideas are right will get listened to by CCP. Don't stop the RP protests, random killings etc, I love reading bout that, but I like the detective work of the Sleeper/Talocan problem. Unless it's not detective work, just having to make something up and shout my mouth off full blast. That sucks.

TLDR: If there's not an actual CCP answer to what happened, loudest shouter wins, event is sucky.


No, you misunderstood it. It's not THAT open. There are specific goals and results defined by CCP but how/when to get there seems to be up to players. E.g. right now players should gather ore samples from different systems all over New Eden. It's not like some people will sit there and say "okay, now we just discovered the devastating 2000mm Large Ultra-Heavy Repeating Artillery that will shred any Amarr capital ships to pieces within seconds. Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff. The question isn't "what to get", but it's "how and when to get" as well as "what happened". Or as another example, to speak of previous expansions and such. This time you don't get told some captain rammed his carrier into a station. This time you decide if he'll succeed or he'll be shot down before (although there are still some issues regarding security as mentioned before).

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.

Mirima Thurander
#28 - 2011-12-02 16:24:38 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
[quote=Aedeal] Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff




link plz

i'm in no way sifting through the Wiki pages of random not working or not there links.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#29 - 2011-12-02 16:43:52 UTC
Myxx wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
a lot of people will have used up months or years worth of their own private efforts, putting them into the projects, so a large initial surge then a bit quieter is only to be expected.

there's several ongoing things.

there are also a couple silly things, due to players and disagreements over things, but that no longer matters.

Theres also sock puppets using IC 'yer doin it wrong' type crap that makes it largely pointless, IMO.


Nope.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-12-02 21:34:39 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Aethlyn wrote:
Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff




link plz

i'm in no way sifting through the Wiki pages of random not working or not there links.


I must remember you that the Arek'Jaalan Mission Statement explicitly states the project does little to dig into the applied side of science and certainly has not aims at providing new weaponry for starships. Dropbear (in the shape of Dr. Tukoss) has further commented that A'J is not about producing blueprints for new technologies.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2011-12-02 22:35:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
Okay, there are some goals, but then it's probably something else, even if it's simply fictional. :)

Well, I'm rather certain, sooner or later they'll create a Capsule Mountable Coffee Dispenser I or something similar. I won't expect some "project" like that immediately spitting out anything really useable (the mentioned huge gun) or whatever. Even if it just creates new lore/fun/consumer items to enrich the game (like it already did with the books to some extent), it's something that can get people motivated. However I could think of it being interwoven with future lore (e.g. new ships introduced; I'm not saying you can participate to get anything like that or whatever). But you could still say "I was there".

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.

Mirima Thurander
#32 - 2011-12-02 23:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Aethlyn wrote:
Look on the wikies, there are defined goals for (probably meant to be) ship modules and stuff




link plz

i'm in no way sifting through the Wiki pages of random not working or not there links.


I must remember you that the Arek'Jaalan Mission Statement explicitly states the project does little to dig into the applied side of science and certainly has not aims at providing new weaponry for starships. Dropbear (in the shape of Dr. Tukoss) has further commented that A'J is not about producing blueprints for new technologies.





Then im Content to keep Blowing up there ships for there loot. (so far has been worth it)

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.

Borascus
#33 - 2011-12-05 09:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Aethlyn has struck a chord with what I think Arek'Jaalan is all about.


In the movie BIG with Tom Hanks he recommends an interactive electronic comicbook, where the story isn't the same story over and over again, but different routes can be taken.

Arek'Jaalan strikes me as something that has a backbone and 'unlock milestones'. Like reaching the locked door in a dungeon and needing to retrace steps to find the key.


I'm pretty sure it would be unlocked quicker, but consider - if the ultimate endgame of this venture is progression of Sleeper Storyline what would be the point in having the games best Lore Technicians and rapid-strike pve force churn through 100 different unlocks in 1 day and proclaim the interactive story as over.


Example: Recently, CERN have announced particles moving faster than the speed of light -> offered it to the global community -> been told to re-do the project -> telling the global community the same results -> being told there is a flaw by other members of CERN -> re-addressing the research.


That is, potentially, globally changing "content" and its going through a number of steps so it isn't just flavour of the month.

Site One is a prime example: Its there until fully destroyed, the longer its there, the more prominant it will become in New Eden history.

Had it been erected and destroyed in the 1 day (in terms of its practical existence) it would have been a facilitator or catalyst, if its there for the duration, its a monument.
Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#34 - 2011-12-13 11:18:24 UTC
That's what the 'story' part of Arek'Jalaan is about. That's fine and what I expected. However, the project *started* with an investigation into Sleepers/Talocan/Anoikis. What I want to know is what this part of the story is. The future I agree should be made up by our actions, but what about the past? If we make up the past as well (What happened to the Sleeper/Talocan), it seems a bit silly to me. It moves it from an interesting event where you have to think to one which is just social pandering to get more support for a potentially crap idea.

Future (Site1, player actions etc) - Player driven, we decide what happens.

Past (Sleeper/Talocan mystery) - Written by CCP for players to discover.

Just my 2 isk.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-12-13 12:50:22 UTC
While I agree with you, Aedeal, I think New Edens past is nearly as little written as its future.

Have you heard this podcast? It reveals a thing or two about the A'J process and how the EVE story is written.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#36 - 2011-12-13 14:28:59 UTC
I've no doubt that's probably the case. I'm just stating an opinion that it shouldn't be the case... but likely is.

I can dream can't I? :p
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