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Deep Space Transports
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SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#1 - 2014-07-24 06:06:01 UTC
Ok, I have been out of the loop for about a year now... RL stepped in and started slapping me around a bit... but from what I am reading out of the Kronos update...

The so-called "Deep Space Transports" like the Occator, have been given, or are going to be given not sure which yet, a 50,000 m3 Fleet Hangar hold, and a 5% per level bonus to said Fleet Hangar capacity.

Now I calculated that out to a max (with NO mods) as 63,814.08 m3 at Level 5 Mastery.

I am by no means a noob, I started playing back in 2009 when a buddy of mine got me interested in it while I was in Iraq for a year and I bought a copy of it on Amazon. My time playing this game has been very fun and I really do love this game. But can someone please explain to me what good 50k - 63k of m3 is going to do in a fleet?

A Frigate masses between 25k and 75k m3 by itself!

Is this meant to carry mods, ammo, turrets, and rigs for the fleet to use as a supply ship sitting in the rear at a re-supply point? Because I KNOW there is not a single ship in this game that is built to carry fitted ships around... if I remember correctly you can't even put a fitted ship inside another ship... not even in a hangar hold. I know the Orca, Rorqual, Carrier (I think), Titan (I think), and now these things have hangar holds... right?

I have very little experience so far in capital ships... worked my way into a Freighter month ago when I was still playing, but other Capitals I have little experience with so far.

I know this is a noob-tuber question but I know ya'll will have better info on this than me.

Thank you in advance for keeping this discussion professional and clean. Smile Thank YOU.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2014-07-24 06:34:17 UTC
The hangar maxes out at 62500m^3. You can put packaged ships and their parts and ammo in there. As it's independent of the actual cargo hold you can maximize tank/speed. It makes a fairly decent low sec hauler- capable of even moving a packaged BS.
Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#3 - 2014-07-24 06:45:08 UTC
It's not really meant to transport un-packaged ships, that's what carriers and supercarriers are for. Packaged frigs are only 2500 m3 big so you can fit a lot of them in there.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#4 - 2014-07-24 06:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The hangar maxes out at 62500m^3. You can put packaged ships and their parts and ammo in there. As it's independent of the actual cargo hold you can maximize tank/speed. It makes a fairly decent low sec hauler- capable of even moving a packaged BS.


I see, so its best role on the battle-field would be that of a (relatively) fast hauler that can turn faster than a freighter, get in and out of an area faster than a freighter, can take damage like a cruiser, and can get on the run even if being scrammed... correct?

So basically, it would be good for being a forward supply depot for a battle fleet that stationed itself on the back side of a planet somewhere with a small skirmish fleet of frigs, dessy's, BC's, and a few BS's to give it local protection while it resupplied ships holding a campaign to bust up an outpost or something right?

Netan MalDoran wrote:
It's not really meant to transport un-packaged ships, that's what carriers and supercarriers are for. Packaged frigs are only 2500 m3 big so you can fit a lot of them in there.


Ok... so Carriers CAN carry unpacked and fitted frigs and such then? I think I remember something about being able to fit 2 unpacked and fitted BatCru's in a SupCarrier.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#5 - 2014-07-24 06:53:28 UTC
The Fleet Hangar is will primarily be treated as a cargohold by another name - which makes the DSTs huge as haulers. The advantage of such a bay, specifically for the DSTs, is that it is unexpandable with entirely removes the pressure on tanking slots for the armour versions.

The Fleet Hangar may well be used in its conventional sense in some applications and by some groups but in most cases there are move useful choices as a fleet oiler - though the DSTs are less massive than the other vessels with the facility...

As for ships which can carry fitted ships: The Orca, Carriers & Titans all have Ship Maintenance Bays which carry fully assembled and fitted vessels. The Rorqual also has such a bay but it is restricted to mining vessels.
In terms of scale, you're not going to resupply an entire fleet from any of them - but they do allow both flexibility and resupply of critical ships (Heavy 'dictors so you can tackle supers for example or replacement Logis).
The Orca can carry a BC, cruiser and (depending on race) has a little space left and is often used to move ships (as well as other kit) between Incursion zones.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#6 - 2014-07-24 07:08:38 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
The Fleet Hangar is will primarily be treated as a cargohold by another name - which makes the DSTs huge as haulers. The advantage of such a bay, specifically for the DSTs, is that it is unexpandable with entirely removes the pressure on tanking slots for the armour versions.

The Fleet Hangar may well be used in its conventional sense in some applications and by some groups but in most cases there are move useful choices as a fleet oiler - though the DSTs are less massive than the other vessels with the facility...

As for ships which can carry fitted ships: The Orca, Carriers & Titans all have Ship Maintenance Bays which carry fully assembled and fitted vessels. The Rorqual also has such a bay but it is restricted to mining vessels.
In terms of scale, you're not going to resupply an entire fleet from any of them - but they do allow both flexibility and resupply of critical ships (Heavy 'dictors so you can tackle supers for example or replacement Logis).
The Orca can carry a BC, cruiser and (depending on race) has a little space left and is often used to move ships (as well as other kit) between Incursion zones.


I see, so basically they were MEANT as re-supply haulers, but to re-supply a true fleet, then you would need a bunch of these. Ok, I figured so... so Ammo and guns haulers they are then!!!
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#7 - 2014-07-24 10:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnathan Coffey
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
The Fleet Hangar is will primarily be treated as a cargohold by another name - which makes the DSTs huge as haulers. The advantage of such a bay, specifically for the DSTs, is that it is unexpandable with entirely removes the pressure on tanking slots for the armour versions.

The Fleet Hangar may well be used in its conventional sense in some applications and by some groups but in most cases there are move useful choices as a fleet oiler - though the DSTs are less massive than the other vessels with the facility...

As for ships which can carry fitted ships: The Orca, Carriers & Titans all have Ship Maintenance Bays which carry fully assembled and fitted vessels. The Rorqual also has such a bay but it is restricted to mining vessels.
In terms of scale, you're not going to resupply an entire fleet from any of them - but they do allow both flexibility and resupply of critical ships (Heavy 'dictors so you can tackle supers for example or replacement Logis).
The Orca can carry a BC, cruiser and (depending on race) has a little space left and is often used to move ships (as well as other kit) between Incursion zones.


I see, so basically they were MEANT as re-supply haulers, but to re-supply a true fleet, then you would need a bunch of these. Ok, I figured so... so Ammo and guns haulers they are then!!!

I think your expectations from your RL military career are doing you a disservice here. In EVE, there is almost always a 100% safe station or POS a few minutes away, so there is no real need for 're-supply' haulers. You just stash all your stuff in the nearest station and load up on as much as you need when you go out to pewpew.
The role of the DSTs is more similar to armored post carriages in the Wild West. They are meant to safely transport medium volumes of goods through dangerous terrain. While not fit to fight off a massive attack, they are robust enough to withstand and escape the occasional solo pirate or small gate camp.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#8 - 2014-07-25 04:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
The Fleet Hangar is will primarily be treated as a cargohold by another name - which makes the DSTs huge as haulers. The advantage of such a bay, specifically for the DSTs, is that it is unexpandable with entirely removes the pressure on tanking slots for the armour versions.

The Fleet Hangar may well be used in its conventional sense in some applications and by some groups but in most cases there are move useful choices as a fleet oiler - though the DSTs are less massive than the other vessels with the facility...

As for ships which can carry fitted ships: The Orca, Carriers & Titans all have Ship Maintenance Bays which carry fully assembled and fitted vessels. The Rorqual also has such a bay but it is restricted to mining vessels.
In terms of scale, you're not going to resupply an entire fleet from any of them - but they do allow both flexibility and resupply of critical ships (Heavy 'dictors so you can tackle supers for example or replacement Logis).
The Orca can carry a BC, cruiser and (depending on race) has a little space left and is often used to move ships (as well as other kit) between Incursion zones.


I see, so basically they were MEANT as re-supply haulers, but to re-supply a true fleet, then you would need a bunch of these. Ok, I figured so... so Ammo and guns haulers they are then!!!

I think your expectations from your RL military career are doing you a disservice here. In EVE, there is almost always a 100% safe station or POS a few minutes away, so there is no real need for 're-supply' haulers. You just stash all your stuff in the nearest station and load up on as much as you need when you go out to pewpew.
The role of the DSTs is more similar to armored post carriages in the Wild West. They are meant to safely transport medium volumes of goods through dangerous terrain. While not fit to fight off a massive attack, they are robust enough to withstand and escape the occasional solo pirate or small gate camp.


While there may be a station in nearly every system, I have found that null space does not always have the luxury of letting you skip into a nice station to wait out the bad guys... often times the bad guys are there en masse waiting for a pack of noobs to pop into stattion so they can blow them to bits when they pop back out, because when is a fleet most vulnerable? Directly after transiting a jump gate, wormhole junction, or popping out of a station. I have learned that when the heat is on your tail in this game... one of the WORST things you can do in null is pop into a station... as you may never get OUT of said station without having your pod smoked.

I'm no noob, I know there are no 100% safe stations anywhere EXCEPT above .5 space. And where ever you got the idea that there are just random safe POS floating around in every star system... I think perhaps a care bear might have won that staring contest with you and blinded you to what is going on outside of high sec space.
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#9 - 2014-07-25 07:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnathan Coffey
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:
While there may be a station in nearly every system, I have found that null space does not always have the luxury of letting you skip into a nice station to wait out the bad guys... often times the bad guys are there en masse waiting for a pack of noobs to pop into stattion so they can blow them to bits when they pop back out, because when is a fleet most vulnerable? Directly after transiting a jump gate, wormhole junction, or popping out of a station. I have learned that when the heat is on your tail in this game... one of the WORST things you can do in null is pop into a station... as you may never get OUT of said station without having your pod smoked.
If we are speaking null specifically, you may not be able to dock at all but if you do, it's certainly safer than running around in space and risking to get caught in a warp disruption bubble or gate camp. Being locked into a station is 'safer' than exploding, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
I'm no noob, I know there are no 100% safe stations anywhere EXCEPT above .5 space.
Any station that allows you to dock is inherently safe (except from isk doublers and other scams, obviously). If undocking form the station is not safe, that does not mean the station is not safe, because when you undock, you are not in the station any more.

Quote:
And where ever you got the idea that there are just random safe POS floating around in every star system...
This is not what I said. I said there is almost always a safe station or POS a few minutes away.

Quote:
I think perhaps a care bear might have won that staring contest with you and blinded you to what is going on outside of high sec space.

Insulting people who are trying to help you is not a good way to get advice.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2014-07-25 08:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
I think your expectations from your RL military career are doing you a disservice here. In EVE, there is almost always a 100% safe station or POS a few minutes away, so there is no real need for 're-supply' haulers. You just stash all your stuff in the nearest station and load up on as much as you need when you go out to pewpew.
The role of the DSTs is more similar to armored post carriages in the Wild West. They are meant to safely transport medium volumes of goods through dangerous terrain. While not fit to fight off a massive attack, they are robust enough to withstand and escape the occasional solo pirate or small gate camp.

Pretty much this. On roams, all PvP ships carry what they intend to use just for that specific trip (plus a little extra "just in case"). The general thinking is that it is not cost-effective to load up a ship full of supplies when there is a good chance that it will not survive the journey.

Personally... I load up my ships with only 1000 to 2000 rounds of my preferred ammo... with another 500 to 1000 rounds of "specialty" T2 ammo for added flexibility.
Out of the hundreds of engagements and roams I have been on, I can count the number of times I have run out of ammo on one hand.


Also... I am finding a lot of errors in your knowledge base and interpretation of things in EVE.


- do not place too much weight on the names of things in EVE. More often than not they are misnomers and do not exactly reflect the nature of the mechanic or object they are attached to.
For example: A Fleet Hanger is basically a glorified cargo bay that cannot really be modified with equipment (it can be accessed by the fleet you are in).
A Maintenance Bay is a "hanger" in the traditional sense, being able to carry assembled ships.

- The volume difference between Packaged and Assembled ship is huge. A packaged frigate is a mere 2,500 cubic meters... an assembled Frigate is around ~25,000 cubic meters.
A packaged battleship is exactly 50,000 m3... assembled it is ~500,000 m3.

- Assembled ships can only fit in Maintenance Bays. Everything else is relegated to cargoholds, fleet hangers, and "specialty bays."
(pro-tip: always read the fine print).

- Ships with Maintenance Bays are few and can be listed off; Orca, Carrier, Supercarrier, and Titan. The Rorqual does not quite count as it can only carry mining and industrial ships.
--- All these vessels can scoop/launch ships from/into space (note: it cannot do this with actual players due to "technical reasons").

- PvPers do not get "resupplied" while they are roaming. Ever. They bring what they intend to use on that roam alone (exceptions apply) and charge ahead.

- If a PvPer must resupply mid-roam then they must have either been wildly lucky/successful or underestimated how much ammo they would use. If the PvPer is in a gang then hopefully someone has some spare ammo and/or they use some of the ammo looted from targets. If neither option is available, then the nearest NPC station SHOULD have something.

- If you need to dock up someplace, make sure it is a place that you will have an advantage. Caldari stations are popular because they have a HUGE undock radius... allowing you to play "station games" and hopefully **** off any hostiles camping you that they will leave.

- If you are sure you will be caught on a gate, play "ping pong." Burn back to the gate at top speed, jump through, and try to warp away ASAP on the other side. If you fail, try again. And again. And again. Sooner or later you will either die or get lucky and escape.


I could go on... so let us return to Deep Space Transports.

These ships are basically VERY tanky versions of the T1 haulers. The fleet hanger was given to them so that they could have a rather large carrying capacity that would not conflict with their ability to tank damage (because at the moment you have to choose between the two).


Also... not to nitpick... but you are not safe in 1.0 to 0.5 systems either. People like me can gank you in there for giggles... even in a combat ship. Twisted

How did you Veterans start?